Do unitarians go to hell?

[Helen]

@KBCid So why did Jesus say that about anyone blaspheming the Holy Spirit? In Matt
" And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
But don't answer if it takes this thread off topic...I'm not trying to derail it!!
I have heard these things before, obviously, but I have never 'listened' before. :)
I don't think I even followed the last trinity thread all the way through.
( mainly because I say to myself:- " I don't think it will effect my salvation so I wont bother to get involved." but I got interested in reading your reply..)

 

[KBCid]

@KBCid So why did Jesus say that about anyone blaspheming the Holy Spirit? In Matt
" And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
But don't answer if it takes this thread off topic...I'm not trying to derail it!!
I have heard these things before, obviously, but I have never 'listened' before. :)
I don't think I even followed the last trinity thread all the way through.
( mainly because I say to myself:- " I don't think it will effect my salvation so I wont bother to get involved." but I got interested in reading your reply..)

Because the Holy spirit is a representative of the Father doing the job that the Father sent him to do so, if you disrespect the messenger like they did in scripture by asserting that Christ had an unclean spirit then you have in fact disrespected the Father.

God sends his ministering spirits to represent them and here is a prime example of the error man can commit by rendering worship to any beings other than the Father and Son;

Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. 9Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Col 2:18 - Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind...

Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 14Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

 

[KBCid]

I am watching this thread as it unfolds....good 'arguments' here...I must say I had never ever thought how you showed it in your post. Bless you...H

So it would appear that it has unfolded as much as it can. You have had a bit to think on the post so, what have you concluded?

If I were to ask you "what does God say that their image is" what would be your reply?

 

[bbyrd009]

The holy spirit is technically supposed to bring interpretation, but you still have to have the brains to actually put two and two together in the first place.

i disagree, brains is how we build the world, and "God's nonsense is better than man's sense" seems to suggest that we suspend logic, or else you have to make sense of "hate your life" logically.

 

[amadeus]

If they have the knowledge afforded to them that Jesus is the correct path to the one God, who is the father. But they flat out deny that truth, then I guess they are playing a dicey game with their salvation.

However if someone is naive and unaware of this truth, because of certain circumstances out of their control. Then I believe our Lord will show them mercy for their ignorance.

God certainly shows us mercy in our ignorance while we continue to seek His face. When we stop being ignorant on a point or stop seeking, we may find ourselves in trouble with God no matter how "good" our doctrines appear to be to ourselves or to some others. No one but God can decide that a man has stepped over the boundary line into the point of no return. Unitarian or oneness or whatever, may still have hope because they have charity [Love] and they continue to seek His face. A trinitarian [presuming that that is the right doctrine] without charity who is not continuing to seek His face has less hope than those...

 

[amadeus]

If God wanted their image to be viewed as a trinity by their creation then why did they declare that their image was to be represented as two?

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Matt 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

As Christ has stated in the above verse the two beings (who God stated was a representative of their image) that they created in the beginning were to be considered one and he shows that same representation between himself and the Father in his own words here;

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

God could certainly have created Three beings to represent their image in the beginning and they could have said that the three shall be one but they did not. Christ could also have said through John that "I and my Father and Holy spirit are one" but he does not.

Who is man to change the image that God has declared is representative of themselves into something else?

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us

But, is it not for many merely presumption of blind following other blind to conclude that the "our" means any particular thing, be it two or three or some other multiple?

Could not John 17:21 be shown according to man's logic to support a multiplicity including Father, Son, Holy Ghost, you and I and each of the other fellows [male or female] here on this forum? Exactly what God is in this respect could therefore remain for most then a mystery even if some of them may seem to believe otherwise.

 

[amadeus]

i disagree, brains is how we build the world, and "God's nonsense is better than man's sense" seems to suggest that we suspend logic, or else you have to make sense of "hate your life" logically.

Keep on plugging my friend. The truth may continue to elude man's logic, but those without the Einsteinian level of brain power, can and likely will enter God's realm before those who man rates the more highly for his brain and his education.

 

[amadeus]

So it would appear that it has unfolded as much as it can. You have had a bit to think on the post so, what have you concluded?

If I were to ask you "what does God say that their image is" what would be your reply?

And if she had not concluded at all or if her conclusion is not yours, what could you say then?

"I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase." I Cor 3:6-7

 

[Dcopymope]

i disagree, brains is how we build the world, and "God's nonsense is better than man's sense" seems to suggest that we suspend logic, or else you have to make sense of "hate your life" logically.

"God's nonsense is better than man's sense"

I don't recall scripture ever stating anything of the kind, or even so much as express the sentiment. If you have to suspend logic, then good luck ever getting a scoffer to take your faith in God seriously.

 

[bbyrd009]

"God's nonsense is better than man's sense"

I don't recall scripture ever stating anything of the kind, or even so much as express the sentiment.

ah, not sure what to say there, you learn something every day i guess? Google it i guess, i forget where it is or i would tell you, not meaning to be coy here lol

If you have to suspend logic, then good luck ever getting a scoffer to take your faith in God seriously.

ha ya, you got that right, imo just don't bother anyway, like the Book says. Scoffers scoff, which is why they should be ignored until they become critics i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

"God's nonsense is better than man's sense"

so, googling that i get 4 hits, the first three which are of me, so let's just see here if i made it up or what? No, it's still in there, google just can't find it i guess Bible Search: god%27s nonsense

 

[bbyrd009]

If you have to suspend logic, then good luck ever getting a scoffer to take your faith in God seriously.

if you cannot suspend logic, "hate your life" cannot be understood as a measure of faith, or at least i don't think it can

 

[Dcopymope]

so, googling that i get 4 hits, the first three which are of me, so let's just see here if i made it up or what? No, it's still in there, google just can't find it i guess Bible Search: god%27s nonsense

(1 Corinthians 1:20-25) "Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? {21} For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. {22} For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: {23} But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; {24} But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. {25} Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men."

I already knew of the scripture you might have referred to, and it says nothing about suspending the use of the brain God gave in the thing you claim to believe in.

if you cannot suspend logic, "hate your life" cannot be understood as a measure of faith, or at least i don't think it can

If you have to suspend logic when having a discussion, or a debate with a nonbeliever, then that means you can't even explain it to them. We're talking about a belief in a God who created all there is, which makes him the author of the genetic code, and henceforth the author of logic. Why should said individual take your beliefs seriously if you can't even explain your belief logically? You haven't given him a reason to even give you the light of day. Most believers will spew that "they are saved" yet can't even explain what being saved actually means.

 

[KBCid]

But, is it not for many merely presumption of blind following other blind to conclude that the "our" means any particular thing, be it two or three or some other multiple?

It should not be presumption

Could not John 17:21 be shown according to man's logic to support a multiplicity including Father, Son, Holy Ghost, you and I and each of the other fellows [male or female] here on this forum? Exactly what God is in this respect could therefore remain for most then a mystery even if some of them may seem to believe otherwise.

This is a no logic required answer. How many beings did God show and state were their image. It's quite a simple answer since God patented their image right from the beginning. To imply that God's image is anything other than what he has shown and stated it is would be to essentially call God a liar.

 

[KBCid]

And if she had not concluded at all or if her conclusion is not yours, what could you say then?

Who says the conclusion is mine?
As I would always say. "what did God say their image was to be represented by?

Go ahead give me the answer to that question yourself.

 

[amadeus]

It should not be presumption

No, if we have an answer, it should be what God told us.

This is a no logic required answer. How many beings did God show and state were their image. It's quite a simple answer since God patented their image right from the beginning. To imply that God's image is anything other than what he has shown and stated it is would be to essentially call God a liar.

God has not shown me. To say that He has would be a lie on my part.

 

[amadeus]

Who says the conclusion is mine?
As I would always say. "what did God say their image was to be represented by?

Go ahead give me the answer to that question yourself.

I don't have the answer to your question. I don't know what your question is. If you expect me to answer you then you must clarify what it is that you are asking. I fail to understand what you are saying or asking.

 

[KBCid]

No, if we have an answer, it should be what God told us.
God has not shown me. To say that He has would be a lie on my part.

God showed us all through his word so your denial means either you haven't read the entire scripture or you are not being truthful. I will recap God's inspired words to remind you of what they said;

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...
Gen 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Gen 5:1 ...In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; 2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Mark 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. 7For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

Can you answer the question now?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

No, unitarians are going to hell.

 

[bbyrd009]

Can you answer the question now?