Amos 5:24

[Dcopymope]

From 1Peter (bold type added by me): "13. Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake, whether to the king as supreme, 14. or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good. 15. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men— 16. as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God. 17. Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king."

I can agree with you here that its speaking of government authority because it actually states the authority in question. This is not the case with Romans 13 where without the words "ministers of God", without the previous and succeeding chapters, is left in ambiguity allowing people to twist Pauls words to mean Donald Trump is ordained by God to be his minister. How blasphemous can one get? And at no point in this scripture does God command blind obedience to any authority. If it really comes down to your own personal well being and the state of your faith, then Peter stated that you ought to obey God rather than the "ordinances of men". While there are scriptures such as this you cite that are given as a deterrent against anarchy and disorder, there is also a line that is not to be crossed when it comes to government.

(Acts 5:27-33) "And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them, {28} Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man’s blood upon us. {29} ¶ Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. {30} The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. {31} Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. {32} And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. {33} ¶ When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them."

(Proverbs 24:19-22) "Fret not thyself because of evil men, neither be thou envious at the wicked; {20} For there shall be no reward to the evil man; the candle of the wicked shall be put out. {21} My son, fear thou the LORD and the king: and meddle not with them that are given to change: {22} For their calamity shall rise suddenly; and who knoweth the ruin of them both?"

Yeah, I can imagine you people coming up to the apostles telling them that they ought to obey the "ordinances of man" instead of God and cease and desist spreading the gospel. I can imagine you people speaking with Jews in Germany asking them to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and then you tell them "oh by the way, all governments, all kings including Adolf Hitler was established by God, so you need to submit to him. It may seem unfair that he is killing millions of your people, but you must submit, because the Bible says the Nazi's are ministers of God". Yes, submit to your fuhrer, because God commands it.

 

[Helen]

Now where did I say that? Of course he has an influence, that doesn't make Donald Trump a "minister of God". That is an insult to my intelligence and to the faith itself.

You don't have to say it..the bible said it for you.
Romans 13 " All of you must obey those who rule over you. There are no authorities except the ones God has chosen. Those who now rule have been chosen by God. 2 So whoever opposes the authorities opposes leaders whom God has appointed. "

God uses the ones who He sets in place...for both good and bad, just like He did with Nebuchadnezzar. He both used him in judgement upon His people and also blessed them through him.
They are God's tools to us. I am Canadian..welcome to ours!!!!! Give me Trump any day!!
( I'm still reading this thread on the other page...not to the end yet)

 

[Dcopymope]

You don't have to say it..the bible said it for you.
Romans 13 " All of you must obey those who rule over you. There are no authorities except the ones God has chosen. Those who now rule have been chosen by God. 2 So whoever opposes the authorities opposes leaders whom God has appointed. "

God uses the ones who He sets in place...for both good and bad, just like He did with Nebuchadnezzar. He both used him in judgement upon His people and also blessed them through him.
They are God's tools to us. I am Canadian..welcome to ours!!!!! Give me Trump any day!!

And in context, the entire chapter concerns the church, not King Nebuchadnezzar, or Donald Trump. You taking one little verse out of not just one, but three chapters to rob it of that context doesn't suddenly NOT make it so. If it comes down to obeying the president, or Kim Jong Un versus obeying God, I'll take the latter any day, and I can assure you I won't be judged for it when the time comes.

 

[mjrhealth]

There are no authorities except the ones God has chosen.

Well I beg to differ, would make God out to be a complete idiot. The devil certainly plays His part in mens politics. What was it Jesus said.

Mat 22:15 Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk.
Mat 22:16 And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men.
Mat 22:17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
Mat 22:18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?
Mat 22:19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
Mat 22:20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
Mat 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

So we give to the world which is of this world, where here till we die.

 

[Dcopymope]

Well I beg to differ, would make God out to be a complete idiot. The devil certainly plays His part in mens politics. What was it Jesus said.

Mat 22:15 Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk.
Mat 22:16 And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men.
Mat 22:17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
Mat 22:18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?
Mat 22:19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
Mat 22:20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
Mat 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

So we give to the world which is of this world, where here till we die.

To get down to brass tacks, is Jesus here even implying that the Caesar is a "minister of God"? He seems to be clearly separating the two. One would think he would have told the Pharisees something very different if this was the case.

 

[Job]

Its idiomatic for his ministers as authority figures executing judgement within the church like Jesus told them to, its not about literally cutting people into pieces with a sword.

 

[Dcopymope]

..........yep.

 

[Job]

..........yep.

 

[Dcopymope]

We all love these emoticons don't we?

 

[Job]

We all love these emoticons don't we?

 

[Helen]

Quote :- "We all love these emoticons don't we?"

Can I ask WHERE you guys get these from...they are always better than the ones on the site? I've tried dragging and dropping, but they come out really BIG, even the "thumbnail" when I click on it.

 

[Job]

Quote :- "We all love these emoticons don't we?"

Can I ask WHERE you guys get these from...they are always better than the ones on the site? I've tried dragging and dropping, but they come out really BIG, even the "thumbnail" when I click on it.

The ones I usually use are from a site I used to frequent.

If you want to grab one from a post, just right click on it and copy like you would a picture and paste it where you want.


Give it a try.

.

 

[Dcopymope]

Quote :- "We all love these emoticons don't we?"

Can I ask WHERE you guys get these from...they are always better than the ones on the site? I've tried dragging and dropping, but they come out really BIG, even the "thumbnail" when I click on it.

You would have to find a good website that uses these emoticons and just copy and paste them in.

 

[Helen]

:) Thank you... @Dcopymope