Why the fall had to occur

[bbyrd009]

How many times have I told you that you misunderstand or are not listening?

imagine how we feel, lol. ok, ty for your time here

 

[bbyrd009]

ok, got it, you got the truth, everyone should just listen to you, gee never even heard that one before

imo God is witnessing against you, and the way to establish truth has already been declared.
Only you are not going to like it i guess

^

 

[ScottA]

also, you have to deny that you can change the future in any way too, i guess

I do not deny change in the present. It is change in the future that cannot be done. If you want to call that changing the future, call it what you like. But if I elaborate to tell you the whole truth and that you cannot change the future, I am correct, and it is your definition of present and future that is incorrect. But I only do so, because you seek the truth. But if I have been wrong about what you seek, please tell me otherwise, and I will let you believe a lie (just as it is written of many).

 

[bbyrd009]

I do not deny change in the present. It is change in the future that cannot be done. If you want to call that changing the future, call it what you like. But if I elaborate to tell you the whole truth and that you cannot change the future, I am correct, and it is your definition of present and future that is incorrect. But I only do so, because you seek the truth. But if I have been wrong about what you seek, please tell me otherwise, and I will let you believe a lie (just as it is written of many).

so iow you don't need prayer, you need an exorcism, wadr.

 

[ScottA]

well, seems to me that the Prodigal Son left the world, and returned to his father, right. But he did not leave the earth to do this, right? So i do not see any "returning to the world" like you interpret, not that i can prove my pov here or anything. If you interpret that the Prodigal somehow left the earth there, then bam go with that

As I said...it is a parable.

In the parable the son did not leave the world, nor is that what is meant. But rather, the son left his Father who is in heaven, and when he returned (to heaven) there was a celebration. But the point is that when he left the Father...he was dead. And when he returned to the Father, he was alive. This is the moral of the story, and speaks of all who have been separated from their Father which is in heaven.

 

[ScottA]

imo what he means is that you have now provided a flood of Bible, that cannot really be connected to the point. I am fam with some concepts needing to be extrapolated, ok, that can't be established with just one verse; but usually in those cases one can do so by providing several vv from diff Books that all speak to the same concept, or seem to. Not what you have done there iow. but i reiterate that i am not seeking a judgement here, ok; i am open to impressions from Scripture as well. Bam provide a connection to your passage Quote there, if you can, i would like to see it.

I see. To which I will say, it is not for me to speak in the same parable manner as the world is accustom to, although I do site them often and will even give my own. But rather, it is given to me to bring an end to the parables. Meaning I speak the plain truth, whether believed or not. As it has always been, what one believes will either save or condemn him.

 

[bbyrd009]

As I said...it is a parable.

In the parable the son did not leave the world, nor is that what is meant. But rather, the son left his Father who is in heaven, and when he returned (to heaven) there was a celebration. But the point is that when he left the Father...he was dead. And when he returned to the Father, he was alive. This is the moral of the story, and speaks of all who have been separated from their Father which is in heaven.

yes, so further misinterpretation @ the "location" of heaven which is right beside all of us, wadr. Heaven is now posited as some other place, obtainable by humans only after they die, right

 

[ScottA]

iow how does quote 2 there even acknowledge quote 1, or rebut it?

it seems to reiterate that the earth is passing away, when it is the world that is passing away, not the earth.
The earth is going to be destroyed someday--not pass away, imo--true enough, but this is not the same as the world, passing away. The New Jerusalem comes to earth, iow

You claimed, and claim again now, that the earth will not pass away...and I showed you where scripture says you are wrong.

But lets address the problem: Both the earth and the world do pass away, for the new heaven and new earth are "new."

As for the new Jerusalem coming to earth, you are correct. Which is Christ's reign upon the earth, even now. "Then comes the end."

 

[bbyrd009]

I see. To which I will say, it is not for me to speak in the same parable manner as the world is accustom to, although I do site them often and will even give my own. But rather, it is given to me to bring an end to the parables. Meaning I speak the plain truth, whether believed or not. As it has always been, what one believes will either save or condemn him.

ok, believe what you like, i would only suggest that you make your pov accountable to some other witness, who can critique or offer rebuttals to any errant imaginings that will arise (have arisen); being as how Scripture is being rejected here, in the posts you have chosen not to reply to, wadr. See why "truth is established in the mouth of two or three witnesses," iow, or embrace that or whatever

 

[ScottA]

fwiw i am noticing a lot of believers now who have no idea of any functional difference in Erets and Kosmou, and many conflate the two; we even get "Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth," a complete heresy. Of course these same ppl will blithely pray "on earth as it is in heaven" too i guess

You lost me on the heresies. But the prayer of "on earth as it is in heaven", is not to recycle the old earth, but rather like it is true of the new temple not made of stone: It is completely new and different as flesh and spirit.

 

[bbyrd009]

You claimed, and claim again now, that the earth will not pass away...and I showed you where scripture says you are wrong.

no you didn't, you merely shot me the same tired rebuttal that any believer shoots when they are denying earth as our domain, wadr, and i have already admitted that the earth will, one day, be consumed in fire (the sun), but this is not the same thing as the world, passing away; except to you, and believers, most believers anyway i guess.

so now, you pray "on earth, as it is in heaven," but you do not believe this, or at least i don't see how you could believe this, and simultaneously believe that the "earth" is what Christ referred to as "passing away." So, like conundrum #12 or whatever

 

[bbyrd009]

You lost me on the heresies. But the prayer of "on earth as it is in heaven", is not to recycle the old earth, but rather like it is true of the new temple not made of stone: It is completely new and different as flesh and spirit.

as the earth is now compared to 100 years ago too, i guess. Recycling seems to be the whole point of "nothing new under the sun," at least imo. Yet we are vastly, observably different from them, 100 years ago, also

 

[ScottA]

so iow listen to you, and ignore the prophets and the Bible?

you have the whole truth, do ya?

you are not deceived at all, huh

I did not say that, nor would I. What I have said, is that what you hear from me agrees with what is written. But what is written is in parable, and I have not continued in parable, but in the plain truth.

 

[bbyrd009]

You lost me on the heresies.

ha well gee, big surprise, i mean as stated you seem to have already abandoned earth entirely

the meek will inherit the earth

 

[bbyrd009]

"God knows the end from the beginning" is the teachings of men, and just a less than accurate attempt of trying to explain the timelessness of God. But they were not telling the whole truth. But I tell you the whole truth, and you refer to them. lol

so iow listen to you, and ignore the prophets and the Bible?

you have the whole truth, do ya?

I did not say that, nor would I.

what?

 

[ScottA]

I declare the end from the beginning, and from long ago what is not yet done, saying: My plan will take place, and I will do all My will.

You siting God declaring within the midst of His story, what the story will bring, does not prove that it is not written and is somehow being written as we speak. No, He says just the opposite: It was written "before the foundation of the world."

 

[bbyrd009]

What I have said, is that what you hear from me agrees with what is written.

yes, and what you cannot seem to hear is that i think you are mistaken, and worse than that, have no one who could possibly make this clear to you, not even God. Doesn't have to be me, see, i am aware of my God complex, and so i would dq me right away, but you should at least have some witness, right. Which btw i found your witness, long time ago already, only you would not appreciate being conflated with them for some reason, i guess? Def not a Christian perspective after all, is it?

 

[bbyrd009]

You siting God declaring within the midst of His story, what the story will bring, does not prove that it is not written and is somehow being written as we speak. No, He says just the opposite: It was written "before the foundation of the world."

k, i'll just go back to waiting for your witness wadr

 

[ScottA]

ok, got it, you got the truth, everyone should just listen to you, gee never even heard that one before

imo God is witnessing against you, and the way to establish truth has already been declared.
Only you are not going to like it i guess

You have hear the claim of truth from both the true and the false. You still have to believe what you will.

My truth is not mine, but is established forever.

 

[ScottA]

so iow you don't need prayer, you need an exorcism, wadr.

Why say wadr (with all due respect), when you have not shown any, but just the opposite?