Why the fall had to occur

[Dcopymope]

Projection much?

Do I have to correct you on everything? Apparently so.

Sure, we all need correction from time to time, my feelings aren't hurt in case you are wondering. You should try correcting yourself sometime on scripture, it helps, I know..

Yeah, you can lead a horse....

I would be happy to address your post, but I have no idea what you are talking about.

It looks like you are hung up on an ancient Aramaic word translated as ‘image’ as if your life depends on it.......unfortunately for you, even if the English word correctly communicated the exact, microscopic meaning of the Aramaic, we still use the word ‘image’ more broadly than you want to use it to support your gnostic understanding of the creation of humanity.

I was being sincere in my desire to understand you, Scott. Maybe its just not going to happen.

I don't even think he understands himself sometimes.

 

[mjrhealth]

Because he WANTED them to according to you people.........but lets not forget folks, he LOVES you unconditionally. There is not a chance in hell I would ever use your arguments to unbelievers, has yet to work out for me.

You going round that circle again, go find God for your self, and ask Him, what are you afraid of...

 

[ScottA]

Yeah, you can lead a horse....

I would be happy to address your post, but I have no idea what you are talking about.

It looks like you are hung up on an ancient Aramaic word translated as ‘image’ as if your life depends on it.......unfortunately for you, even if the English word correctly communicated the exact, microscopic meaning of the Aramaic, we still use the word ‘image’ more broadly than you want to use it to support your gnostic understanding of the creation of humanity.

I was being sincere in my desire to understand you, Scott. Maybe its just not going to happen.

Your sincerity is hard to make out amidst your sarcasm and accusations.

Whether I use the word "image" or "seen" vs. "unseen" which I just used, matters not. The point was made that the fall was to establish God's glory...with scriptural confirmation. But you rebutted the idea that God would "throw" His children off a cliff to show is glory...in spite of the scriptural confirmation. Then you went on attack and called me a name I do not know the meaning of, which you have now done again.

So...excuse me if I don't believe your sincerity. Nonetheless, I am only advocating the truth, and if you would like to understand, you'll have to try a little harder.

 

[Dcopymope]

You going round that circle again, go find God for your self, and ask Him, what are you afraid of...

What makes you think I haven't already? I'm using your reasoning for the mess the world is in. And yes, we all go around in circles everyday, we just don't realize it....so......around and around we go.

 

[mjrhealth]

What makes you think I haven't already? I'm using your reasoning for the mess the world is in. And yes, we all go around in circles everyday, we just don't realize it....so......around and around we go.

Oh you mean teh part about. "God gave mankind choice" and we screwed up. that certainly is not Gods doing. Now HE could of just made robots, but robots cant love. Like I said, take it before God, you never know He might just answer you, probably not with the answer you want, but that seems to be the norm..

 

[Dcopymope]

Oh you mean teh part about. "God gave mankind choice" and we screwed up. that certainly is not Gods doing. Now HE could of just made robots, but robots cant love. Like I said, take it before God, you never know He might just answer you, probably not with the answer you want, but that seems to be the norm..

Well, sure, BUT, you don't realize that we were basically screwed the moment he created us when it comes down to it. Yes, he gave us a "choice", but it really wasn't a "choice" like we would think of a choice. For God to expect anything from us but the fall knowing the ever present disease of sin would be insanity, especially after seeing his anointed Cherub become the douchebag that we know him to be. What, you don't really believe he was really expecting any different from us do you?

Lets not be naive about the real reason why he allowed it to happen, and why he put the damn tree in the garden to begin with. God would certainly appreciate it. There is a reason why there is no such tree giving us the knowledge of good and evil in new Jerusalem, its because it has served its purpose, a most important purpose that seems to have gone right over everyone's head, well, on this site at least.

 

[aspen]

Your sincerity is hard to make out amidst your sarcasm and accusations.

Whether I use the word "image" or "seen" vs. "unseen" which I just used, matters not. The point was made that the fall was to establish God's glory...with scriptural confirmation. But you rebutted the idea that God would "throw" His children off a cliff to show is glory...in spite of the scriptural confirmation. Then you went on attack and called me a name I do not know the meaning of, which you have now done again.

So...excuse me if I don't believe your sincerity. Nonetheless, I am only advocating the truth, and if you would like to understand, you'll have to try a little harder.

No sarcasm is needed. I see your theology as more closely related to Gnosticism than Christianity.....it is not a matter of name calling - I see it and I am pointing it out. I am not angry about it or indignant - I am not even claiming that my theology is better - I am calling it like I see it.

I am actually somewhat annoyed however that your posts remain unclear to me. Guess, I will have to keep trying.

As a published author, I just figured you had an understanding of Christian heresies and Gnosticism, which infiltrated the early church - if you don’t, it not a big deal.

 

[mjrhealth]

What, you don't really believe he was really expecting any different from us do you?

And you got this strange idea from where????

I can only give you this, i do hope you understand.

Luk 7:41 There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty.
Luk 7:42 And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?
Luk 7:43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

As i said previously, you try explain Love to an angel who cannot know love, go on give it a go...

 

[bbyrd009]

I would have to look up what Gnosticism is - so it's not that.

um...lol. It doesn't work like that, sry

What is crazy...is that He has done such a great job of producing us in image form, that we think we are alive...when He says we are not.

ok, could you Quote where It says we are not? ty

bc i can agree with you that life is just a dream in a sense, but you take this to mean nothing here matters or whatever, all decisions have already been made, no one can really change their minds at all, iow imo you have just found another way to despise your birthright, seems to me?

Unless your perspective has you walking with God, and no more with us, then it seems that by definition you are deceiving yourself, every time you wake up in the morning, wadr

 

[bbyrd009]

And when I argue for, or state the truth as He has said it...I am not believed any more than He is.

might help if you quoted the v when you do this wadr, but my impression is that you avoid doing this now bc you must avoid a lot of other Scripture to hold your pov, and when you bring Scripture you get spanked; but i don't know this for a fact, as i have yet to see you quote a v of the Bible to support any opinion

 

[bbyrd009]

What is crazy...is that He has done such a great job of producing us in image form, that we think we are alive

what is crazy to me is that this is all explained in the Book, that we live in an illusion, but you have taken that to mean that we aren't actually alive, and nothing here is "real" bc of this, when nothing could be further from truth imo. The kingdom is to be manifest here, in creation, and the earth is not going anywhere, for a long time at least, ok, the physical plane is our domain, and we still confidently sit in chairs even though we know now that they are 99.99999% empty space

 

[bbyrd009]

I quoted John, because he referred to the spirit by which I am witnessing to you also.

um, no, sorry, he does not mean what you imply, you seem to anticipate seeing God revealed somewhere other than right here, and somewhen other than today, as John meant imo

 

[bbyrd009]

Please do look up Gnosticism it really is an insidious heresy and can provide insight for all us in the ways we can wander off the narrow path.

oh, he can't possibly be Gnostic bc he does not know what that means tho, see

 

[bbyrd009]

It looks like you are hung up on an ancient Aramaic word translated as ‘image’ as if your life depends on it.......unfortunately for you, even if the English word correctly communicated the exact, microscopic meaning of the Aramaic, we still use the word ‘image’ more broadly than you want to use it to support your gnostic understanding of the creation of humanity.

yes

 

[ScottA]

No sarcasm is needed. I see your theology as more closely related to Gnosticism than Christianity.....it is not a matter of name calling - I see it and I am pointing it out. I am not angry about it or indignant - I am not even claiming that my theology is better - I am calling it like I see it.

I am actually somewhat annoyed however that your posts remain unclear to me. Guess, I will have to keep trying.

As a published author, I just figured you had an understanding of Christian heresies and Gnosticism, which infiltrated the early church - if you don’t, it not a big deal.

Well, I have no need to know about gnosticism, because I know about God. On the contrary, if you want to know more about God, you would do well to learn what the word of God says about the proper "tense" of God, which I have learned to prioritize. It does not surprise me that people struggle and even refuse it, but it is there as plain as day, and it is the future.

 

[bbyrd009]

I am actually somewhat annoyed however that your posts remain unclear to me. Guess, I will have to keep trying.

"unclear" seems to be what he is shooting for, i tried my best, too. But tbh the admission that there was no discernable fruit kind of revealed the whole point imo. That and the fact that 2 whole separate vv of Scripture can never seem to be contemplated, we always get bogged down in the bad definitions of one term in one v

 

[bbyrd009]

Well, I have no need to know about gnosticism, because I know about God. On the contrary, if you want to know more about God, you would do well to learn what the word of God says about the proper "tense" of God, which I have learned to prioritize. It does not surprise me that people struggle and even refuse it, but it is there as plain as day, and it is the future.

only you got no Ref, right, no Scripture pops to mind for this, and even if i were trying to help you here, i could not think of one either. ok.

so then shoot it to us, where is this 'learn what the word of God says about the proper "tense" of God?'

(neverminding that you demonstrate not knowing what Word is yet, too imo)

 

[ScottA]

um...lol. It doesn't work like that, sry
ok, could you Quote where It says we are not? ty

bc i can agree with you that life is just a dream in a sense, but you take this to mean nothing here matters or whatever, all decisions have already been made, no one can really change their minds at all, iow imo you have just found another way to despise your birthright, seems to me?

Unless your perspective has you walking with God, and no more with us, then it seems that by definition you are deceiving yourself, every time you wake up in the morning, wadr

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

11 Then He said: “A certain man had two sons. 12 And the younger of them said to his father, ‘Father, give me the portion of goods that falls to me.’ So he divided to them his livelihood. 13 And not many days after, the younger son gathered all together, journeyed to a far country, and there wasted his possessions with prodigal living. 14 But when he had spent all, there arose a severe famine in that land, and he began to be in want. 15 Then he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country, and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. 16 And he would gladly have filled his stomach with the pods that the swine ate, and no one gave him anything.

17 “But when he came to himself, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! 18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you, 19 and I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired servants.”’

20 “And he arose and came to his father. But when he was still a great way off, his father saw him and had compassion, and ran and fell on his neck and kissed him. 21 And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight, and am no longer worthy to be called your son.’

22 “But the father said to his servants, ‘Bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet. 23 And bring the fatted calf here and kill it, and let us eat and be merry; 24 for this my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ And they began to be merry.

25 “Now his older son was in the field. And as he came and drew near to the house, he heard music and dancing. 26 So he called one of the servants and asked what these things meant. 27 And he said to him, ‘Your brother has come, and because he has received him safe and sound, your father has killed the fatted calf.’

28 “But he was angry and would not go in. Therefore his father came out and pleaded with him. 29 So he answered and said to his father, ‘Lo, these many years I have been serving you; I never transgressed your commandment at any time; and yet you never gave me a young goat, that I might make merry with my friends. 30 But as soon as this son of yours came, who has devoured your livelihood with harlots, you killed the fatted calf for him.’

31 “And he said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and all that I have is yours. 32 It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’”

...On the contrary, everything does indeed matter. This is the time of our testimony for or against ourselves. If I gave the impression that one cannot change, it is only because it is already written. But this is the time when one can change and should. This is us doing what we will do, because of who we are.

If we are of the world we should walk in it. But if we are not of the world and have received the Holy Spirit, we should walk in the spirit, and "deny" the world and the hold it once held us captive.

 

[Dcopymope]

And you got this strange idea from where????

I can only give you this, i do hope you understand.

Luk 7:41 There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty.
Luk 7:42 And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?
Luk 7:43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

As i said previously, you try explain Love to an angel who cannot know love, go on give it a go...

I don't think I would have to explain love to an angel pal, since they know what love is all by themselves. Are you claiming angels don't have emotions when they worship God? Where are you getting your ideas from concerning angels? Have you met one? Are you quoting these verses as if it is proof against my argument? If so, how exactly? Yes, your sins are forgiven, now what does that have to do with the inevitability of the fall? If he determined his son will be the lamb slain for our sins before the six day creation began, then what makes you think that there was actually a choice being given when he put the tree in the garden?

You keep asking me where I got my argument from as if I just made it up out thin air when the answer is right in front of you. God putting the two trees in the garden was NOT him giving man a real "choice", what God was actually doing was speeding up the inevitable, what he knew was already destined to occur beforehand. Do you have a problem with God NOT postponing the birth of the savior? The isn't about our "choices", the Bible from beginning to end is all about Jesus Christ eliminating sin now and forever, a simple observation that many seem to miss apparently.

 

[ScottA]

might help if you quoted the v when you do this wadr, but my impression is that you avoid doing this now bc you must avoid a lot of other Scripture to hold your pov, and when you bring Scripture you get spanked; but i don't know this for a fact, as i have yet to see you quote a v of the Bible to support any opinion

No, my posts are full of quotes of scripture, often times back to back, and sometimes only a quote. Other times I do not use quotation marks, and perhaps should say as Jesus did for the same reason, "Have you not read?"

If you have not seen me quoting scripture...you should get that checked.