Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[Taken]

A person who has been born again in Christ can fall away and lose his secure position (2 Peter 3:17) by their OWN doing.
The Scriptures are painfully clear on this fact.

2 Pet 3:17
Ye therefore believed, seeing y know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.

I find nothing "painfully clear", of a man Losing Salvation.

2 Peter is for those young in faith, to keep their direction steadfast in the Word of God,
Ie WARNING THEM...yoking themselves with the Wicked of the World, not in the Word, is putting themselves in DANGER of falling for their TEMPTATIONS of doing wicked things.

Scripture is full of WARNINGS, for babes in faith, BECAUSE they are not yet prepared to Stave off Temptations WITH the knowledge, they have not yet learned.

Let me offer an example.
If you are drowning in the sea and are saved by a passing boat - you are saved as long as you STAY in the boat.
The choice to stay in or ump off is all yours.

Sure. However, I do not believe, a boat, is the method for eternally SAVING a soul.

It is the same with Christ.

I disagree.

Jesus is not a temporary Savior of a mans mortal life. All mortal lives will die, God requires it.
Gen 9:5

By Jesus' Power and Authority, He SAVES a mans soul, AFTER a man has Called on His Name TO Save his soul, which precisely is a man's ELECTION of God, to EFFECT His Authority TO Save the mans soul.
1 Thes 1:4

Matt. 23:37

"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

And? Jerusalem, Jerusalem.....a city.
Did a city kill prophets and stone prophets?

Thus speaking of Jews within Jerusalem who rejected prophets and stoned those sent to teach them....were not willing to what?

Clearly not willing to be gathered together children..

And? So we know of what some Jews Didn't do. What does that have to do with men WHO were WILLING to be gathered unto the Lord?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Can people drive out demons the name of Jesus if they are totally lost and not born again?

You have 4 entities, and thus must consider each entity.

1) a person, with demon driving out power
2) a person, demon possessed
3) the demon
4) the power of the Name of Jesus

And the circumstances.

1) a person, the demon driver, without Jesus' power.

Summary ~
A person driving out demons, is NOT doing so by the power of Jesus' Name.

Reason ~
Such person does NOT have the power of Jesus' WITHIN him.

So ~
Can such a person DRIVE out DEMONS from another person, with Jesus' indwelling power, when the person does not Have Jesus' indwelling power? No.

And ~
What if a person WITHOUT Jesus' indwelling power, CLAIMS to drive out Demons, by, through, with, Jesus' Name?

They are a Liar.

And what would Jesus' Himself think about such a Liar, making False Claims, and including Jesus' Name in the mix?

Pretty confident, according to Scripture, Jesus Himself would Reject such a person, making False Claims, IN Jesus' Name.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

You have 4 entities, and thus must consider each entity.

1) a person, with demon driving out power
2) a person, demon possessed
3) the demon
4) the power of the Name of Jesus

And the circumstances.

1) a person, the demon driver, without Jesus' power.

Summary ~
A person driving out demons, is NOT doing so by the power of Jesus' Name.

Reason ~
Such person does NOT have the power of Jesus' WITHIN him.

So ~
Can such a person DRIVE out DEMONS from another person, with Jesus' indwelling power, when the person does not Have Jesus' indwelling power? No.

And ~
What if a person WITHOUT Jesus' indwelling power, CLAIMS to drive out Demons, by, through, with, Jesus' Name?

They are a Liar.

And what would Jesus' Himself think about such a Liar, making False Claims, and including Jesus' Name in the mix?

Pretty confident, according to Scripture, Jesus Himself would Reject such a person, making False Claims, IN Jesus' Name.

God Bless,
Taken

Then your claim about Judas having never been a true believe in Christ is false.
Judas, along with the other Eleven drove out demons in Jesus's name (Mark 6:13).

Judas is a prime example of a person who had an Epignosis of Christ and fell away.

 

[BreadOfLife]

2 Pet 3:17
Ye therefore believed, seeing y know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.

I find nothing "painfully clear", of a man Losing Salvation.

2 Peter is for those young in faith, to keep their direction steadfast in the Word of God,
Ie WARNING THEM...yoking themselves with the Wicked of the World, not in the Word, is putting themselves in DANGER of falling for their TEMPTATIONS of doing wicked things.

Scripture is full of WARNINGS, for babes in faith, BECAUSE they are not yet prepared to Stave off Temptations WITH the knowledge, they have not yet learned.

That is a silly explanation.

Why would Peter "Warn" people of doing bad things if is wasn't going to result in their loss of salvation??
You're saying that we can have it all - salvation AND continual sin and that is false . . .

Sure. However, I do not believe, a boat, is the method for eternally SAVING a soul.

The ONLY method for eternally saving a soul is for that person to cooperate w1th God's will and endure to the end.
If they don't - they LOSE.

I disagree.

Jesus is not a temporary Savior of a mans mortal life. All mortal lives will die, God requires it.
Gen 9:5

By Jesus' Power and Authority, He SAVES a mans soul, AFTER a man has Called on His Name TO Save his soul, which precisely is a man's ELECTION of God, to EFFECT His Authority TO Save the mans soul.
1 Thes 1:4

And again - the CONTEXT of Scripture tells us that unless we cooperate with God's grace and endure to the end - we cannot retain our secure position.

And? Jerusalem, Jerusalem.....a city.
Did a city kill prophets and stone prophets?

Thus speaking of Jews within Jerusalem who rejected prophets and stoned those sent to teach them....were not willing to what?

Clearly not willing to be gathered together children..

And? So we know of what some Jews Didn't do. What does that have to do with men WHO were WILLING to be gathered unto the Lord?

God Bless,
Taken

And now, you're simply playing games.

Jesus wasn't talking to a city - but to a PEOPLE.
This verse shows that no matter how much God wills something for us - WE can undo it all and lose because of our free will.

 

[Taken]

Then your claim about Judas having never been a true believe in Christ is false.
Judas, along with the other Eleven drove out demons in Jesus's name (Mark 6:13).

Jesus is the Word.
Christ is the Power.

I think I was pretty clear.
Power of Jesus, is Power from Jesus.
Power to drive out Demons with Jesus' Power, was a point I stressed.

Mark 6:7 is very clear. Jesus gave the 12 Power to drive out unclean spirits.

This Scripture speaks NOTHING of Jesus exercising His Power to Save "any" of the 12's souls.

Judas is a prime example of a person who had an Epignosis of Christ and fell away.

Judas is a prime example of a man who was following along, learning, believing, doubting, and walking away, without ever having received Salvation of his soul.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[APAK]

Until you can address the word "Epignosis" - your answer is irrelevant.
These verses speak of the born again Christian, who has an EPIGNOSIS which is a full, experiential knowledge of Christ.

ONLY those who are born again can have an "Epignosis" of Christ - and these verses indicate that even those people can lose it all by their own doing.

You must be confused, or you rushed your reply to me…

What do you mean by my (single) answer is irrelevant? I gave you several answers in the form of a decent criticism of your selected verses you tried to pass off as support and proof for a believer losing their salvation.

Why did you not counter my ‘answers?’

I can only surmise you just brushed all my answers under the rug as irrelevant because you and I really know you are obsessed with the term epignosis. You want to show ‘magically’ that all these verses you cherish were about a believer’s epignosis of spiritual things. Well it isn’t happening, and you must know this.

You have managed to state 4 falsehoods in your reply to me.

1. that all your verses were about believers.

2. that all your verses posed were about a believer’s epignosis, and then saying they have completeness or fullness in it.

3. that only believers can have epignosis of Christ.

4. that your posed verses speak of believers that can lose it all, I guess their salvation as well. (What does ‘all’ mean?)

There is one verse that you posed that actually used the transliterated English word epignosis – in 2 Peter 2:20.

Let study it together…

The context of this verse is all about false prophets and teachers see 2 Peter 2:1 as an introduction. It is not really focused on their followers.

(2Pe 2:1) But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

(2Pe 2:19) They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved.

(2Pe 2:20) For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.

Now we need to establish who ‘they’ are in verse 20. Verse 19 points to the false teachers as the ‘they.’ It says they are slaves of corruption.

Now the (epignosis) knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is associated directly to the false teachers and not any believer or just any unbeliever for that matter.

The false teachers had full exposure to the Lord. They knew who he was and what he did in depth. Even having this in-depth knowledge, they still rejected the Lord and thus the spirit of God and fell back into what they were practicing before – corruption of spiritual and Godly things.

As you can see there is no mention or hint of a believer losing salvation in this verse. The false teacher never had salvation to lose.

Now let me give you my rendition, briefly on the term epignosis:

God does call a true believer (born-again if you will) to increase in epignosis always as a major source of increasing personal faith of things spiritual, including the meaning and understanding of salvation. It is driven by the power of the spirit of God that dwells within the believer. The method used is by reading and meditating on scripture along with the power of the spirit of God that drives spiritual knowledge with wisdom and understanding. This is also called growing in the Lord and increasing in faith etc.

Col 1:9-14 sums it up for the true believer quite well.

Now an unbeliever increases epignosis not for the spirit of God as they do not possess it within them. They can only rely on their selves to mimic (whether consciously or not) the process of a true believer as briefly outlined in the previous paragraph. They also use secular sources for knowledge in scripture and to increase in wisdom for understanding. So what type of faith is increasing by these unbelievers? It is a worldly false faith that fits well with the act of apostacy. They never had true spiritual epignosis in the first place. Of course, this does mean that sometimes of even often the spiritual and secular understandings of scripture and knowledge of things spiritual do happen match, in agreement.

The false teachers in verse 20 used and possessed secular epignosis of the Lord. They never got to the point of true faith and commitment to believe and gain spiritual epignosis.

 

[Taken]

That is a silly explanation.

Spiritual understanding is often regarded as silly. No matter, human understanding is but foolishness to God.

Why

would Peter "Warn" people of doing bad things if is wasn't going to result in their loss of salvation??

Why are you WARNED about ANYTHING?

So you don't lose your salvation?

Warnings are for the benefit of man.

I think perhaps you may be amiss of what "your Salvation" means.

Salvation is "yours", and "everyone else's"...
For the TAKING.

IOW - IF one does not TAKE and RECIEVE "their" Salvation....they Don't HAVE IT.

If one physically DIES, never having Claimed, Taken, Recieved "THEIR" Salvation....they Lose it. They LOST their opportunity to Receive A Gift that was provided FOR THEM TO RECEIVE.

Physically DEAD men Know nothing.
The Lord has TAKEN their BLOOD, ie their Physical LIFE.
Gen 9:5


They do not get a refill of Blood, to decide they want to Claim their Salvation.

You're saying that we can have it all - salvation AND continual sin and

HOLD ON fellow ~ Don't start SPEAKING FOR ME! I said no such thing!

that is false . . .

Not impressed with you SPEAKING FOR ME, then telling me what YOU HAVE SAID is false.

The ONLY method for eternally saving a soul is

By one Calling on the Lords Name and telling Him that from the thoughts of their Heart, they Believe in Him. Period.

for that person to cooperate w1th God's will

Submitting to the Lord, via BELIEF in their Heart IS doing Gods Will.

and endure to the end.

ENDURE ? Remain to the end?

Why might you presume that would be an issue for me?
I have the POWER of the Holy Spirit within me, KEEPING me FOREVER....without ending.

If they don't - they LOSE.

It appears you do not know the difference between ONE WHO HAS the indwelling POWER of the Holy Spirit.

And another who is still UNDER THE LAW, (hasn't accepted the INDWELLING Holy Spirit) and MUST 'endure...continue...remain' subject to their laws, traditions, festivals, repeatedly being forgiven.

Are you a Jew under the Law?

And again - the CONTEXT of Scripture tells us that unless we cooperate with God's grace and endure to the end - we cannot retain our secure position.

Again, I am already SAVED. I don't "keep, retain or secure" my SAVED position. The Indwelling Power of the Lord, who Restored my soul; KEEPS my soul forever Saved.

And now, you're simply playing games.

Clarifying is not a game. It's clarifying.

This verse shows that no matter how much God wills something for us - WE can undo it all and lose because of our free will.

Apparently you do not grasp.
Salvation is a gift. One does not HAVE IT, until they RECEIVE IT.

Apparently you do not grasp.
You expect the Lord to only speak the Truth to you.....and he expects the same from you.

Apparently you do not grasp.
When a man SOLICITS the Lord, and calls on His Name, to Receive "HIS GIFT" of Salvation;
That man exercised his Freewill.

But hey if that man is a Liar, and didn't REALLY MEAN IT.....

I suppose by "some people's" way of thinking, he could have fooled the Lord, received Salvation, and then later prance around na, na, na, na, na...
That the Lord gave such man Salvation and the man Threw his Salvation back in the Lords face.

Nah!

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Triumph1300]

QUOTE="Grams, post: 371770, member: 7520"]You are either saved !!! Or Not!

Once saved is for ever............ but what you do on this earth gives you your position in the heavens.........

That's NOT what the Bible says.

The Bible speaks of saved, born again people with a full, experiential knowledge of Christ CAN fall away and be lost:

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory - even to a blind person . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot "blot out" a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God "take away" somebody’s share of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

Wow. I can't believe this! You actually posted something I agree with. It's a miracle.

 

[Taken]

Yikes...

Receiving Knowledge is not being Saved.

Believing, Following Along, is not being Saved.

Going to Chruch is not being Saved.

Shouting hallelujah and sayin Amen is not being Saved.

Giving yourselve a Name tag is not being Saved.

The Lord blessing you with rain, fair weather, is not being saved.

Casting out Demons, is not being Saved.

Reading the Bible, is not being Saved.

Your SIN AGAINST GOD, is NOT BELIEVING IN HIS WORD!

When a Man BELIEVES in His Heart, IN the Word of God....that man becomes Forgiven his Sins, washed of ALL unrighteousness, and Saved and Born Again!

The man DOES NOT, become UNSAVED, and RETURN TO DISBELIEF......duh uh....he does not "RETAIN" the same old corrupt heart, or the same old corrupt natural spirit, or the same old corrupt soul.....

And NOTHING in Scripture says a man can UNDO such things.
And NOTHING in Scripture says those things are KEPT, by the mans power.....as if he could undo those things and throw them back to the Lord in disgrace!

God Bless,
Taken

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus is the Word.
Christ is the Power.

I think I was pretty clear.
Power of Jesus, is Power from Jesus.
Power to drive out Demons with Jesus' Power, was a point I stressed.

Mark 6:7 is very clear. Jesus gave the 12 Power to drive out unclean spirits.

This Scripture speaks NOTHING of Jesus exercising His Power to Save "any" of the 12's souls.



Judas is a prime example of a man who was following along, learning, believing, doubting, and walking away, without ever having received Salvation of his soul.

God Bless,
Taken

Which YouTube pastor taught you this garbage?
And yet you're unwilling to hear the truth.
The truth stings.

 

[GodsGrace]

That's NOT what the Bible says.




Wow. I can't believe this! You actually posted something I agree with. It's a miracle.

Ditto.
LOL

 

[GodsGrace]

You must be confused, or you rushed your reply to me…

What do you mean by my (single) answer is irrelevant? I gave you several answers in the form of a decent criticism of your selected verses you tried to pass off as support and proof for a believer losing their salvation.

Why did you not counter my ‘answers?’

I can only surmise you just brushed all my answers under the rug as irrelevant because you and I really know you are obsessed with the term epignosis. You want to show ‘magically’ that all these verses you cherish were about a believer’s epignosis of spiritual things. Well it isn’t happening, and you must know this.

You have managed to state 4 falsehoods in your reply to me.

1. that all your verses were about believers.

2. that all your verses posed were about a believer’s epignosis, and then saying they have completeness or fullness in it.

3. that only believers can have epignosis of Christ.

4. that your posed verses speak of believers that can lose it all, I guess their salvation as well. (What does ‘all’ mean?)

There is one verse that you posed that actually used the transliterated English word epignosis – in 2 Peter 2:20.

Let study it together…

The context of this verse is all about false prophets and teachers see 2 Peter 2:1 as an introduction. It is not really focused on their followers.

(2Pe 2:1) But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

(2Pe 2:19) They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved.

(2Pe 2:20) For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.

Now we need to establish who ‘they’ are in verse 20. Verse 19 points to the false teachers as the ‘they.’ It says they are slaves of corruption.

Now the (epignosis) knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is associated directly to the false teachers and not any believer or just any unbeliever for that matter.

The false teachers had full exposure to the Lord. They knew who he was and what he did in depth. Even having this in-depth knowledge, they still rejected the Lord and thus the spirit of God and fell back into what they were practicing before – corruption of spiritual and Godly things.

As you can see there is no mention or hint of a believer losing salvation in this verse. The false teacher never had salvation to lose.

Now let me give you my rendition, briefly on the term epignosis:

God does call a true believer (born-again if you will) to increase in epignosis always as a major source of increasing personal faith of things spiritual, including the meaning and understanding of salvation. It is driven by the power of the spirit of God that dwells within the believer. The method used is by reading and meditating on scripture along with the power of the spirit of God that drives spiritual knowledge with wisdom and understanding. This is also called growing in the Lord and increasing in faith etc.

Col 1:9-14 sums it up for the true believer quite well.

Now an unbeliever increases epignosis not for the spirit of God as they do not possess it within them. They can only rely on their selves to mimic (whether consciously or not) the process of a true believer as briefly outlined in the previous paragraph. They also use secular sources for knowledge in scripture and to increase in wisdom for understanding. So what type of faith is increasing by these unbelievers? It is a worldly false faith that fits well with the act of apostacy. They never had true spiritual epignosis in the first place. Of course, this does mean that sometimes of even often the spiritual and secular understandings of scripture and knowledge of things spiritual do happen match, in agreement.

The false teachers in verse 20 used and possessed secular epignosis of the Lord. They never got to the point of true faith and commitment to believe and gain spiritual epignosis.

My but you like the sound of your own voice. You related to Taken?
You should write a book...

 

[GodsGrace]

Spiritual understanding is often regarded as silly. No matter, human understanding is but foolishness to God.



Why are you WARNED about ANYTHING?

So you don't lose your salvation?

Warnings are for the benefit of man.

I think perhaps you may be amiss of what "your Salvation" means.

Salvation is "yours", and "everyone else's"...
For the TAKING.

IOW - IF one does not TAKE and RECIEVE "their" Salvation....they Don't HAVE IT.

If one physically DIES, never having Claimed, Taken, Recieved "THEIR" Salvation....they Lose it. They LOST their opportunity to Receive A Gift that was provided FOR THEM TO RECEIVE.

Physically DEAD men Know nothing.
The Lord has TAKEN their BLOOD, ie their Physical LIFE.
Gen 9:5


They do not get a refill of Blood, to decide they want to Claim their Salvation.



HOLD ON fellow ~ Don't start SPEAKING FOR ME! I said no such thing!



Not impressed with you SPEAKING FOR ME, then telling me what YOU HAVE SAID is false.



By one Calling on the Lords Name and telling Him that from the thoughts of their Heart, they Believe in Him. Period.



Submitting to the Lord, via BELIEF in their Heart IS doing Gods Will.



ENDURE ? Remain to the end?

Why might you presume that would be an issue for me?
I have the POWER of the Holy Spirit within me, KEEPING me FOREVER....without ending.



It appears you do not know the difference between ONE WHO HAS the indwelling POWER of the Holy Spirit.

And another who is still UNDER THE LAW, (hasn't accepted the INDWELLING Holy Spirit) and MUST 'endure...continue...remain' subject to their laws, traditions, festivals, repeatedly being forgiven.

Are you a Jew under the Law?



Again, I am already SAVED. I don't "keep, retain or secure" my SAVED position. The Indwelling Power of the Lord, who Restored my soul; KEEPS my soul forever Saved.



Clarifying is not a game. It's clarifying.



Apparently you do not grasp.
Salvation is a gift. One does not HAVE IT, until they RECEIVE IT.

Apparently you do not grasp.
You expect the Lord to only speak the Truth to you.....and he expects the same from you.

Apparently you do not grasp.
When a man SOLICITS the Lord, and calls on His Name, to Receive "HIS GIFT" of Salvation;
That man exercised his Freewill.

But hey if that man is a Liar, and didn't REALLY MEAN IT.....

I suppose by "some people's" way of thinking, he could have fooled the Lord, received Salvation, and then later prance around na, na, na, na, na...
That the Lord gave such man Salvation and the man Threw his Salvation back in the Lords face.

Nah!

God Bless,
Taken

BreadofLife has a lot of patience with you.
You don't provide scripture but only your opinion.

That is not sufficient.
Provide some scripture that says we are saved forever and HOW we are saved.

WE, otoh, have provided a lot of scripture for you to which YOU DO NOT REPLY, which is why I've stopped speaking to you.

You do like the sound of your own voice...

 

[Stranger]

Then your claim about Judas having never been a true believe in Christ is false.
Judas, along with the other Eleven drove out demons in Jesus's name (Mark 6:13).

Judas is a prime example of a person who had an Epignosis of Christ and fell away.

(Mark 6:13) doesn't say Judas drove out any demons. The twelve as a group drove out demons. They went out two by two, and as two by two they drove out demons.

(John 6:70) "Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?" Note it says 'is a devil', not will become a devil. Judas was a devil when he was chosen. Judas is not a picture of one who lost his salvation. He never was saved.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

And NOTHING in Scripture says a man can UNDO such things.

it's what's in your heart that matters, and you seem to have a very nice heart imo

there do seem to be indications that man can do just that, but if you believe some certain thing opposed to that i guess it wouldn't do much good to discuss the passages anyway.

that's mainly why i was razzing you, k, the definitive statements being made, when you cannot possibly know.
well, plus you gotta keep the law; i know pastors make a hash of which law, etc, but really it isn't a puzzle i guess

 

[Taken]

Jesus is the Word
John 1:1
John 1:14

Christ is the Power
1 Cor 1:24

Jesus Christ gives Power
Acts 1:8

Jesus Christ gives Power to drive out Demons
Mark 6:7

Judas was following with Jesus then stopped.
John 13:18-22
Luke 6:16

Taken

Which YouTube pastor taught you

I find often people make up false accusations when they are not mature enough to hear and verify Scripture before they speak.

this garbage?

I also find some people think reverences to Jesus Christ and Scripture is garbage.

And yet you're unwilling to hear the truth.
The truth stings.

I also find some people accuse others of what they themselves lack.

Perhaps when maturity catches up with you,
You will recognize what the sting means.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I agree. Death will be a continuation of life, this mortal life I mean.
If we live here with God, He'll be with us after death.
And if we, instead, wish to make this life here with the enemy, then the enemy will be with us after death.

It's our choice...

You make no sense and contradict Scripture.
Get with it!

 

[bbyrd009]

And NOTHING in Scripture says a man can UNDO such things.

a good deed covers many sins

kind of does, but i'm not even really trying, k.
If the kingdom can be "...taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it,"
then it follows that salvation is not the one-time on/off switch complete with checklist and evidence of speaking in tongues that ol' tassle-toes makes it. We are not advised to count the cost for nothing

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Your last paragraph is an interesting concept.
Mainline theologians do not believe Jesus spend any time in hell.
But the N.T. does speak of His going to the prisons... maybe someplace in Hades - who could know this for sure. Sometimes we spend pages discussing ideas we cannot know about even if Paul, or anyone, tries to explain them.

And I made a mistake, Don Angelo is the name, NOT Don Alberto.
(for Don Alberto's sake!). He also believes in ahhihalism. I could never be one of those because it's an impossible word to spell, and I'm a pretty good speller! Oh my. Where's BofL when you need him!!

Everyone who doesn't go to heaven goes to hell
No limbo, no purgatory, just hell

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I agree with all of the above.
The problem I have is with those that say that being saved one time in life will literally guarantee salvation.

If you notice, in your post above you said that Jesus said "thy faith has saved thee". Right. As long as we have faith, we are saved. What if I lose my faith?

I don't say this to argue with you because I believe you to be a sincere Christian, I say this for those reading along who may misunderstand and think that because they accepted Jesus as Savior one time in their life, they can be saved forever.

Jesus is our Savior but He is also our Lord.
As long as we believe, we are saved.
As long as we have faith, we are saved.

The comforter will abide with us forever, as long as we desire Him to be by our side. God did not take away our free will when we got saved.

But both those nouns are in the present tense.
This is my point...

John 3:16
Whoever BELIEVES -- in the Son of God.

You are causing people to doubt their salvation with your mumbo jumbo.....