Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[Taken]

i doubt you even know what Word is tbh--pretty sure you mean to shoe-horn Scripture in there for that, right--and yes obviously a deception concocted by deceiving and trusting one's belief in Word, called a strong delusion, that yes, i am so sorry to inform you, many who think they believe and trust Word will fall prey to, "even the elect if that were possible."

and your hyper-deterministic replies are pretty much a giveaway imo

"Even the elect"....."IF"..."that were possible".

Are you saying. Because that "IS" possible?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

ha see you are doing it again here, snipping my post to force your perspective on it? stuff like that?

Did you require that I answer for something for you?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

would it even matter if i did?

"Even the elect"....."IF"..."that were possible".

Are you saying. Because that "IS" possible?

God Bless,
Taken

what is probable there is that ppl will seek to include themselves in some group deemed "accepted," and the Bible even invites one into the perspective as a test. Iow new believers are hit with all of this "predestination" and "elect" language in like week 1 right, so by the end of week 2 we got a bunch of bots stumbling around insisting that they are the elect, and they don't have to keep any laws to boot. Then they can safely be relied upon to spout vacuous defenses for OSAS for the next forty years.

don't mean to be harsh ok, sorry, but fwiw i would let whoever wants to claim being Elect to do so, but see that Hitler did that too

 

[Taken]

The problem here is that some who are born again turn away from God sometimes. I have seen this. It could be that they never really believed, I don't doubt this.

But I like to go by scripture and Paul made it clear that salvation could be lost. Many of his letters have words in them such as, IF, and IF YOU CONTINUE, and IF YOU FALL AWAY. How do you explain all Paul's warnings to Christians, to whom he was writing, if it is not possible to fall away?

Those who FALL AWAY, were not Saved or Born Again.

Judas is a good example.
For a lengthy time Judas, along with the other 11 disciples followed Jesus, listened, learned new things......and WHAT?

Believed, Wondered, Doubted, Believed, Questioned, Challenged, Doubeted, Believed, Denied.....

See the pattern?
See what was occurring?

There is an "INTERIM" between Learing ABOUT the Lord....and SUBMITTING to the Lord.

How can anyone SUBMIT to a LIFELONG Vow, without FIRST Learning About what they might SUBMIT TO?

IOW ~ as Scripture teaches, FAITH, comes by HEARING.

Faith is not something of our own. It is a gift from God. When they are "of themselves" hearing....God is gifting them with Faith.

THERE is NO Commitment being EFFECTED.

What is happening is ENLIGHTMENT.

The man AT ANY TIME, can STOP hearing, STOP being Enlightened...and 2 things happen.

1) He stops receiving Faith.
2) He has "fallen away" from Faith.

Did he fall away from HAVING BEEN Saved and Born Again?

No, He fell away from Faith.

Did He jeopardize "his salvation" ? Yes.

Jesus came with a Gift of Salvation, for the whole World.
That Gift is Free...

However the Gift "must be taken" by one who WANTS it.

When a man WALKS AWAY from Jesus,
Do you believe that is a man who WANTS to RECEIVE the Gift of Salvation?

Salvation is a Gift...and PART of that Gift entails BEING FOREVER "WITH" the Lord.

A man Who Walks Away From Jesus....
Is not a man Declaring he Forever wants to
Be WITH Jesus.

It is a man Declaring he does NOT WANT to forever Be with Jesus.

Back to the INTERIM.
Judas WALKED away From Jesus.
He did not RETURN to Jesus.
He COULD have RETURNED, but Didn't.

The other 11 disciples, in "their" INTERIM between Learning ABOUT Jesus, and Becoming Saved and Born Again...
Wondered, Believed, Denied, Questioned....
And What?
Never Walked Away!
And What?
All confessed they Truly Believed.
And What?
All became Saved and Born Again.
And What?
Were Forever WITH the Lord.

And Judas?
Was Forever WITHOUT the Lord.

There are MANY who go to hear in Churches, hear via TV, hear via friends, perhaps even Read......they are being enlightened....perhaps even believing, doubting, wondering, denying, believing...
NOT SAVED.

Any time a man is Hearing the Word of God,
The Holy Spirit is Gifting that man with Faith.
He is gaining Faith, as a Gift from God.

And UNTIL THAT MAN, "submits" TO the Lord, believe IN HIS HEART...that man HAS NOT made a VOW...to express his desire to BE WITH THE Lord FOREVER.....

The Lord does NOT Force a MAN to Commit.
Nor does the Lord Force a man to receive Salvation. It is a Gift provided by the Lord...
That one Who Receives, MUST be the one Who Commits himself To the Lord.

Romans 11:22
2 Peter 2:20-22
1 Corinthians 9:27
2 Peter 3:17
1 John 2:24

How would you explain the above verses if our salvation were guaranteed based on nothing?

First of all, I would never say;

our Salvation were guaranteed based on nothing

The Lord has a Gift for the World...

You and everyone else has Opitions...
One can learn about the Gift;
One can learn about the Gift Giver;
One can believe in the Gift;
One can believe in the Gift Giver;

One can Accept the Gift;
One can Accept the Gift Giver;

One can Reject the Gift;
One can Reject the Gift Giver;

One can LEARN, the Acceptance of the Gift, requires Belief IN the Gift and Belief IN the Giver of the Gift.

The GIFT IS SALVATION, which IS the Saving of ones SOUL.

Faith IS not the Gift of Salvation.
Faith IS a prelude TO and BEFORE receiving the Gift of Salvation.

As you read the NT, you are learning ABOUT men, Learning About the Gift Giver, and the Gift of Salvation.

Thus Back to the point of an INTERIM....
Much of what was being Taught to men in Scripture...is being taught to men; particularly Gentiles...who were NOT steeped historically in God Almighty...nor some coming Messiah...or How to have a relationship with God...or what it meant to be "WITH" Him....or the Consequence of being "WITHOUT" Him...or How to Serve Him in a manner pleasing to Him.

Rom 11:
Paul is speaking to Gentiles about Gentiles; A saving Grace for them. Unlike the Jews, who were steeped in Good Works "save" a man.

Paul speaks of "jealously", which is to say;
Gentiles accepting Salvation, Are Saved, yet may find Jews "jealous", of a "supposed Jewish Messiah", giving Gentiles Salvation...
Even when they go about in the World, gaining successful riches, that had its own, lengthy, set of "rules and laws" according to the Jews.

If you recall, Jews for eons had been instructed to Keep among their own. And now these Gentiles, can receive Salvation, and go an do among Gentiles?

You simply have to consider the Context of what is happening to the men you read about in Scripture. Sometimes that requires you to know the History of the Hebrews/Jews and their Laws, and now what they have ( their God, their Messiah ).... being supposedly INCLUDING Gentiles....the PERMANENT Salvation....IMO....a hard pill to swallow, if your were a Jew at that time.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Salvation is a gift.

Agree.

Which must be held onto.

Disagree.

A man who accepts the Gift of Salvation....
Does NOTHING to effect the Gift of Restoring his soul.
The Restoring of his God is via the Spirit of God.
The man does NOTHING to keep or "hold on to the Gift".
The Spirit of God, via His POWER, keeps the mans soul restored.

I believe I've answered all of the above in my previous post just above.

Yes, you have, and I disagree with you.

Your beliefs are not pivotal to me,

That's no issue with me. It makes no difference if one agrees with me. My hope is one should elect to Agree with the Lord.

please provide scripture for those beliefs.

I believe the Lord IS the Truth.
When Scripture says FOREVER, it means FOREVER, not kind of dependent upon the power of a man.

Rom 8:24
1 Cor 1:18
1 Cor 15;2
2 Cor 15:2
Rev 21:24
Luke 7:50
2 Tim 1:9
Rom 10:13
Matt 7:8
John 6:51
John 14:16
Rom 16:27
2 Cor 9:9
Heb 10:14
2 John 1:2
Rom 10:10
Rom12:1
1 John 1 3:9

You sound like a Calvinist. Did Calvinistic ideas exist before 1500 AD?
I can show you that they did not .

Thanks for sharing what you think is an appropriate LABEL for me, however I do not recall announcing that LABEL in application to me.

You sound like you do not TRUST the Word of God is True, "as if" His Word "is subjected to a mans mindful whims".

...Salvation...which must be held on to..

What would that sort mindset be LABELED?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[DPMartin]

• Those that believe "once saved always saved" is true (16.67%)
  
  
• Those that believe "once saved always saved" is a false docterine. (50%)
  
  
• Not sure. (33.33%)

so and the majority of the human race hates God, so what's your point?

 

[Taken]

would it even matter if i did?
what is probable there is that ppl will seek to include themselves in some group deemed "accepted," and the Bible even invites one into the perspective as a test. Iow new believers are hit with all of this "predestination" and "elect" language in like week 1 right, so by the end of week 2 we got a bunch of bots stumbling around insisting that they are the elect, and they don't have to keep any laws to boot. Then they can safely be relied upon to spout vacuous defenses for OSAS for the next forty years.

don't mean to be harsh ok, sorry, but fwiw i would let whoever wants to claim being Elect to do so, but see that Hitler did that too

Not a problem for me what other people do.

I know what I do.
And I know Why.
I know my STANDING WITH the Lord.
And I know Why.

I trust the Lord is TRUE and FAITHFUL.
Once a person IS Saved.
The person IS Saved Forever.

You seem to be against being SAVED ONCE,
Is forever or sufficient.

Perhaps you can share your personal experience with us of HOW MANY TIMES you have been "SAVED".

God Bless,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

BreadOfLife:

I see you have shot out some flaming arrows of scripture attempting to kill any opposing view on this subject

I thought this was a serious post, so I have taken a few hours to generate a response in kind.

I will post several times because it is lengthy.

(Rom 11:17) But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree,

(Rom 11:18) do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you.

(Rom 11:19) Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”

(Rom 11:20) That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear.

(Rom 11:21) For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.

(Rom 11:22) Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

(Rom 11:23) And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. (ESV)

This is an irrelevant area of scripture (verse 22) you have presented in support of your opposing view of the meaning of salvation.

You have missed the context, the audience and the meaning of ‘continuance in God’s kindness’ that Paul was speaking of….

This scripture is all about Paul speaking of a collective culture or tribal view of Israel of old and those new Christians of old Israel (remnant) and other nations and tribes. It is not focused on an individual’s salvation, regardless of tribal background. Although, I must say it still applies in principal to a single believer in this context.

The severity of ‘those’ who fell are the unbelieving Israelites. They never were collectively believers of Jesus Christ in the first place (except for a remnant) therefore they never lost salvation. They never continued in God’s kindness.

God’s kindness to ‘you’ will remain, with the other nation or non-Israel tribes as long as they collectively or yes individually remained in God kindness or grace by their firm faith.

The operative words are: ‘you continue in his kindness…’ Not continuing means they never had firm faith and were never believers and therefore never lost salvation. If they did, they were indeed true believers. The Israelites never continued in his kindness via their belief in the law because they could not receive the spirit of God for their assurance and continued belief to salvation.

APAK....continues

Until you can address the word "Epignosis" - your answer is irrelevant.
These verses speak of the born again Christian, who has an EPIGNOSIS which is a full, experiential knowledge of Christ.

ONLY those who are born again can have an "Epignosis" of Christ - and these verses indicate that even those people can lose it all by their own doing.

 

[Taken]

Until you can address the word "Epignosis" - your answer is irrelevant.
These verses speak of the born again Christian, who has an EPIGNOSIS which is a full, experiential knowledge of Christ.

ONLY those who are born again can have an "Epignosis" of Christ - and these verses indicate that even those people can lose it all by their own doing.

Curious...what is "all" refering to ?

lose it all

God Bless,
Taken

 

[GodsGrace]

GodsGrace: Thank you for your reply. I regret you do not view essentially any of my inputs as being of any value to your learning based on your elusive replies. You seem hung up on hanging a post 1500 AD model on me for all your replies. This is a first for me. You are so sure of yourself that I am really using a 500 year old or so model (I guess of Calvin) to base my view of scripture and salvation? It would be nice just to view scripture for what it is as the word of God without first analyzing and deducing who folks belong to:... are they of this class, mold or school of thought...and they you proceed accordingly..This is not the way I converse with other believers.

In Christ always,

APAK

Well I'm happy for you.
I'm so sure of myself because I know I'm right.
We didn't have to wait for good ole' Calvin to come along and introduce silly ideas about salvation being secured forever based on a one-time experience.

As far as learning...
Yeah. My learning days are over.
I'm all set.

Blessings to you too and have fun speaking to those who agree with you.

 

[Taken]

I'm so sure of myself because I know I'm right.
We didn't have to wait for good ole' Calvin to come along and introduce silly ideas about salvation being secured forever based on a one-time experience.

Curious.
How many times have you been "SAVED"?

As far as learning...
Yeah. My learning days are over.
I'm all set.

So you know all things now?

That's awesome. The rest of us, have the Spirit of Truth teaching us more and more, unlike you.

John 21:25
John 16:13

God Bless,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

Curious...what is "all" refering to ?

God Bless,
Taken

"All" refers to the part where I said that they can lose it "all".
I was referring to their salvation.

 

[Taken]

"All" refers to the part where I said that they can lose it "all".
I was referring to their salvation.

Okay, thanks.

Is it your position;

1) a man who has never received Salvation can Lose Salvation reserved for him,
Because he didn't Take and Receive the Salvation?

2) a man who Has received Salvation, can thereafter having Received Salvation CAN LOSE his Salvation?

Thanks,

God Bless,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

Okay, thanks.

Is it your position;

1) a man who has never received Salvation can Lose Salvation reserved for him,
Because he didn't Take and Receive the Salvation?

2) a man who Has received Salvation, can thereafter having Received Salvation CAN LOSE his Salvation?

Thanks,

God Bless,
Taken

A person who has been born again in Christ can fall away and lose his secure position (2 Peter 3:17) by their OWN doing.
The Scriptures are painfully clear on this fact.

Let me offer an example.
If you are drowning in the sea and are saved by a passing boat - you are saved as long as you STAY in the boat.
The choice to stay in or ump off is all yours.

It is the same with Christ.

Matt. 23:37
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

 

[GodsGrace]

Those who FALL AWAY, were not Saved or Born Again.

Judas is a good example.
For a lengthy time Judas, along with the other 11 disciples followed Jesus, listened, learned new things......and WHAT?

Believed, Wondered, Doubted, Believed, Questioned, Challenged, Doubeted, Believed, Denied.....

See the pattern?
See what was occurring?

There is an "INTERIM" between Learing ABOUT the Lord....and SUBMITTING to the Lord.

How can anyone SUBMIT to a LIFELONG Vow, without FIRST Learning About what they might SUBMIT TO?

IOW ~ as Scripture teaches, FAITH, comes by HEARING.

Faith is not something of our own. It is a gift from God. When they are "of themselves" hearing....God is gifting them with Faith.

THERE is NO Commitment being EFFECTED.

What is happening is ENLIGHTMENT.

The man AT ANY TIME, can STOP hearing, STOP being Enlightened...and 2 things happen.

1) He stops receiving Faith.
2) He has "fallen away" from Faith.

Did he fall away from HAVING BEEN Saved and Born Again?

No, He fell away from Faith.

Did He jeopardize "his salvation" ? Yes.

Jesus came with a Gift of Salvation, for the whole World.
That Gift is Free...

However the Gift "must be taken" by one who WANTS it.

When a man WALKS AWAY from Jesus,
Do you believe that is a man who WANTS to RECEIVE the Gift of Salvation?

Salvation is a Gift...and PART of that Gift entails BEING FOREVER "WITH" the Lord.

A man Who Walks Away From Jesus....
Is not a man Declaring he Forever wants to
Be WITH Jesus.

It is a man Declaring he does NOT WANT to forever Be with Jesus.

Back to the INTERIM.
Judas WALKED away From Jesus.
He did not RETURN to Jesus.
He COULD have RETURNED, but Didn't.

The other 11 disciples, in "their" INTERIM between Learning ABOUT Jesus, and Becoming Saved and Born Again...
Wondered, Believed, Denied, Questioned....
And What?
Never Walked Away!
And What?
All confessed they Truly Believed.
And What?
All became Saved and Born Again.
And What?
Were Forever WITH the Lord.

And Judas?
Was Forever WITHOUT the Lord.

There are MANY who go to hear in Churches, hear via TV, hear via friends, perhaps even Read......they are being enlightened....perhaps even believing, doubting, wondering, denying, believing...
NOT SAVED.

Any time a man is Hearing the Word of God,
The Holy Spirit is Gifting that man with Faith.
He is gaining Faith, as a Gift from God.

And UNTIL THAT MAN, "submits" TO the Lord, believe IN HIS HEART...that man HAS NOT made a VOW...to express his desire to BE WITH THE Lord FOREVER.....

The Lord does NOT Force a MAN to Commit.
Nor does the Lord Force a man to receive Salvation. It is a Gift provided by the Lord...
That one Who Receives, MUST be the one Who Commits himself To the Lord.




First of all, I would never say;



The Lord has a Gift for the World...

You and everyone else has Opitions...
One can learn about the Gift;
One can learn about the Gift Giver;
One can believe in the Gift;
One can believe in the Gift Giver;

One can Accept the Gift;
One can Accept the Gift Giver;

One can Reject the Gift;
One can Reject the Gift Giver;

One can LEARN, the Acceptance of the Gift, requires Belief IN the Gift and Belief IN the Giver of the Gift.

The GIFT IS SALVATION, which IS the Saving of ones SOUL.

Faith IS not the Gift of Salvation.
Faith IS a prelude TO and BEFORE receiving the Gift of Salvation.

As you read the NT, you are learning ABOUT men, Learning About the Gift Giver, and the Gift of Salvation.

Thus Back to the point of an INTERIM....
Much of what was being Taught to men in Scripture...is being taught to men; particularly Gentiles...who were NOT steeped historically in God Almighty...nor some coming Messiah...or How to have a relationship with God...or what it meant to be "WITH" Him....or the Consequence of being "WITHOUT" Him...or How to Serve Him in a manner pleasing to Him.

Rom 11:
Paul is speaking to Gentiles about Gentiles; A saving Grace for them. Unlike the Jews, who were steeped in Good Works "save" a man.

Paul speaks of "jealously", which is to say;
Gentiles accepting Salvation, Are Saved, yet may find Jews "jealous", of a "supposed Jewish Messiah", giving Gentiles Salvation...
Even when they go about in the World, gaining successful riches, that had its own, lengthy, set of "rules and laws" according to the Jews.

If you recall, Jews for eons had been instructed to Keep among their own. And now these Gentiles, can receive Salvation, and go an do among Gentiles?

You simply have to consider the Context of what is happening to the men you read about in Scripture. Sometimes that requires you to know the History of the Hebrews/Jews and their Laws, and now what they have ( their God, their Messiah ).... being supposedly INCLUDING Gentiles....the PERMANENT Salvation....IMO....a hard pill to swallow, if your were a Jew at that time.

God Bless,
Taken

Could I get the Reader's Digest version?
I've never heard of what you're saying above.
Those who are learning are enlightened and those who are enlightened are saved.

I'd never read the bible or heard the salvation message when I met Jesus many years ago.

As to Judas, Judas was saved and then fell away at the end of the life of Jesus.

I can only say that I don't agree with your supposition of soteriology.
Salvation economy is what it is, not what you claim it is. Christianity was around way before you were or those that are teaching you this strange concept.

Honestly, I don't agree.
I can only post Galatians 2:16

 

[GodsGrace]

Agree.



Disagree.

A man who accepts the Gift of Salvation....
Does NOTHING to effect the Gift of Restoring his soul.
The Restoring of his God is via the Spirit of God.
The man does NOTHING to keep or "hold on to the Gift".
The Spirit of God, via His POWER, keeps the mans soul restored.



Yes, you have, and I disagree with you.



That's no issue with me. It makes no difference if one agrees with me. My hope is one should elect to Agree with the Lord.



I believe the Lord IS the Truth.
When Scripture says FOREVER, it means FOREVER, not kind of dependent upon the power of a man.

Rom 8:24
1 Cor 1:18
1 Cor 15;2
2 Cor 15:2
Rev 21:24
Luke 7:50
2 Tim 1:9
Rom 10:13
Matt 7:8
John 6:51
John 14:16
Rom 16:27
2 Cor 9:9
Heb 10:14
2 John 1:2
Rom 10:10
Rom12:1
1 John 1 3:9



Thanks for sharing what you think is an appropriate LABEL for me, however I do not recall announcing that LABEL in application to me.

You sound like you do not TRUST the Word of God is True, "as if" His Word "is subjected to a mans mindful whims".



What would that sort mindset be LABELED?

God Bless,
Taken

Please find out the diffference between Justification and Sanctification.
I'm always amazed that Christians do not know this difference when it has so much to do with our salvation...

It's readily available on the internet.

 

[GodsGrace]

Curious.
How many times have you been "SAVED"?



So you know all things now?

That's awesome. The rest of us, have the Spirit of Truth teaching us more and more, unlike you.

John 21:25
John 16:13

God Bless,
Taken

God bless you too and I hope you learn the correct teachings.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Those who FALL AWAY, were not Saved or Born Again.

Can people drive out demons the name of Jesus if they are totally lost and not born again?

 

[GodsGrace]

A person who has been born again in Christ can fall away and lose his secure position (2 Peter 3:17) by their OWN doing.
The Scriptures are painfully clear on this fact.

Let me offer an example.
If you are drowning in the sea and are saved by a passing boat - you are saved as long as you STAY in the boat.
The choice to stay in or ump off is all yours.

It is the same with Christ.

Matt. 23:37
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

Mathew 23:37 is used many times by me to show that once a person is born again they do not lose their free will.

Some here would like to believe that they do so they could feel safe no matter what they do or what happens with their relationship with Jesus.

You used the words: "painfully clear". Yes. Jesus made it painfully clear that we are to ABIDE IN HIM, if we are to be saved.

Some like to think they knock on the door, abide, then decide to leave the house, and somehow they're still ABIDING.

Well, good luck with this. I'm growing tired of the nonsense.
Here are some statements from the early church fathers. They were around way before Mr. Calvin was and others like him...

Ignatius, A.D. 110
Do not err, my brothers. Those that corrupt families shall not inherit the kingdom of God. If, then, those who do this in regard to the flesh have suffered death, how much more shall this be the case with anyone who corrupts the faith of God, for which Jesus Christ was crucified, by wicked doctrine? Such a person, becoming defiled, shall go away into everlasting fire and so shall everyone that listens to him. (Letter to the Ephesians 16)

Pray also for me, for I need your love along with the mercy of God so that I may be worthy of the duty for which I am destined and so that I will not be found reprobate. (Letter to the Trallians 12)

Pseudo-Barnabas, A.D. 120 - 130
We take earnest heed in these last days, for the whole time of your faith will profit you nothing unless now, in this wicked time, we also withstand coming sources of danger, as befits the sons of God. (Letter of Barnabas 4)

Each person will receive as he has done. If he is righteous, his righteousness will precede him. If he is wicked, the reward of wickedness is before him. Take heed, lest resting at our ease as those who are the called ones, we should fall asleep in our sins, and the wicked prince should acquire power over us and thrust us away from the kingdom of the Lord. Consider this all the more, brothers, when you reflect and see that after such great signs and wonders were done in Israel, they were abandoned. Let us beware, lest we be found as it is written, "Many are called, but few are chosen" [Matt. 22:14]. (Letter of Barnabas 4)

Pseudo-Clement, A.D. 100 - 150
Let us, then, not only call him Lord, for that will not save us. For he says, "Not every one that says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall be saved, but he that does righteousness." Therefore, brothers, let us confess him by our works, by loving one another, by not committing adultery, speaking evil of one another, or cherishing envy; but being continent, compassionate, and good. … By such works let us confess him, and not by those that are of an opposite kind. It is not fitting that we should fear men, but rather God. For this reason, if we should do such wicked things, the Lord has said, "Even if you were gathered together to me, into my very bosom, yet if you were not to keep my commandments, I would cast you off and say to you, 'Depart from me. I do not know where you are from, you workers of iniquity.'" (2 Clement 4)

Let us, then, repent with our whole heart, that none of us may perish needlessly. For if we have commands and [if we] engage in withdrawing from idols and instructing others, then how much more should we not perish because we already know God.

Let us therefore help one another and lift up the weak in what is good so that all of us may be saved, convert, and admonish one another.

Let us not only seem to believe and pay attention when we are admonished by the elders, but let us also remember the commandments of the Lord when we return home. Let us not be allured away by worldly lusts, but let us draw near to one another very often in order to try to make progress in the Lord's commands. In this way, when we all have the same mind, we will be gathered together for life, for the Lord said, "I come to gather all nations and languages."

This refers to the day of his appearing, when he will come and redeem us—each one according to his works. The unbelievers will see his glory and might, and when they see the empire of the world in Jesus, they will be surprised. They will say, "Woe to us, because you were, and we did not know you, did not believe, and did not obey the elders who clearly explain our salvation."

"Their worm shall not die, nor shall their fire be quenched, and they shall be a spectacle to all flesh" (Is. 66:24).

He speaks of the great day of judgment, when they shall see those among us who were guilty of ungodliness and erred in their estimate of the commands of Jesus Christ.

The righteous will have succeeded both in enduring the trials and hating the indulgences of the soul. They will give glory to God when they witness how those who have swerved and denied Jesus by words or deeds are punished with grievous torments in unquenchable fire. They will give glory to their God and say, "There will be hope for him who has served God with his whole heart." (Second Clement 17)

part 1 of 2

 

[GodsGrace]

part 2 of 2


Justin, c. A.D. 155
If they repent, all who wish for it can obtain mercy from God, and the Scripture foretells that they shall be blessed, saying, "Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin" [Ps. 32:2]. That is, he repents of his sins so that he may receive remission of them from God. It is not as you deceive yourselves, along with others who resemble you in this, and say that even though they are sinners, but know God, the Lord will not imput sin to them. We have as proof of this the one fall of David, which happened because of his boasting, which was forgiven when he mourned and wept in the way it is written. If even to such a man no remission was granted before repentance and only when this great king, anointed one, and prophet mourned and conducted himself as it is written, then how can the impure and utterly abandoned, if they do not weep, do not mourn, and do not repent, entertain the hope that the Lord will not impute sin to them? (Dialogue with Trypho 141)

Hermas, c. A.D. 160
"He that does not know God," [the angel of repentance] answered, "and practices evil, receives a certain chastisement for his wickedness, but he that has known God ought not to do evil anymore but to do good. If, accordingly, when he ought to do good, he does evil, does he not appear to do greater evil than the one who does not know God? For this reason, those who have not known God and do evil are condemned to death, but those who have known God and have seen his mighty works and still continue in evil shall be chastised doubly and shall die forever. This is the way the Church of God will be purified." (Shepherd of Hermas III:9:8)

Irenaeus, A.D. 183 - 186
We … ought ourselves to fear, lest by chance, after the knowledge of Christ, if we do things displeasing to God, we obtain no further forgiveness of sins, but be shut out from his kingdom. (Against Heresies, IV:27:2)

[Irenaeus quotes 1 Cor. 6:9-10 here about inheriting the kingdom of God.] It was not to those who are outside that he said these things, but to us, lest we should be cast out of the kingdom of God by doing any such thing. He proceeds to say, "And truly such were you, but you are washed, but you are sanctified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God" [1 Cor. 6:11]. And just as [under the old covenant], those who led vicious lives and led other people astray were condemned and cast out, so also even now the offending eye is plucked out, and the foot and the hand, lest the rest of the body perish in the same way. (Against Heresies, IV:27:4)

Basil, c. A.D. 362
Vain then is the labor of the righteous man, and free from blame is the way of the sinner if a change come to pass, and the former turn from the better to the worse and the latter from the worse to the better. So we hear from Ezekiel ... when he says, "If the righteous man turns away and commits iniquity, I will not remember the righteousness which he did before. In his sin he shall die." And so, too, about the sinner: if he turns away from his wickedness and does what is right, he shall live. (Epistle 42 as numbered by The Ante-Nicene Fathers, published by Eerdmans and Hendrickson.)

Vain then is the labour of the righteous man, and free from blame is the way of the sinner, if a change befall, and the former turn from the better to the worse, and the latter from the worse to the better. So we hear from Ezekiel teaching as it were in the name of the Lord, when he says, “if the righteous turneth away and committeth iniquity, I will not remember the righteousness which he committed before; in his sin he shall die,”2063 and so too about the sinner; if he turn away from his wickedness, and do that which is right, he shall live. (Letter from St. Basil of Caesarea to Chilo, his disciple. Basil 42:2)

And here are some quotes by Martin Luther himself:

Quotes by Martin Luther on Eternal Security

1521
It matters not a whit that this King is despised. I will nonetheless treasure him like a precious jewel, for the Scripture states, "Blessed are they whosoever shall not be offended in me," and "whoever endures to the end shall be saved." If we reject him now, we are left with as little excuse as the Jews. So, let us not say, If our prince accepts the gospel, then we will too. (The Complete Sermons of Martin Luther, vol. V, p. 36)


[The Lord] cautions his Christians against becoming secure, so that the day of his coming might not come upon them unawares. … We must not become like those secure and ungodly people who crowd their hearts with surfeiting [excess] and concerns about earning a livelihood. … When they are at their securest … they will suddenly be laid low and burn with a fire that will never be extinguished. (The Complete Sermons of Martin Luther, vol. V, p. 38, brackets mine)


That's the way things will be, says Christ, when Judgment Day nears. The whole world will act secure. Don't let this disturb you. Christ admonishes, do not follow them; do not do what they are doing; cling to me. Nor be afraid; keep your head high, and see to it that, when I come down from heaven, I shall be able to find you! … But those who overload their hearts and show no concern for Judgment Day will find that death has suddenly overtaken them. The fellow who frolics and dances merrily with his wench, will then suddenly find himself flat on his face, and, while his next-door neighbor counts his shekels of silver and gold, he will suddenly be knocked down with his money bags and all. …


For this reason Christ says to his disciples and Christians, Be on your guard so that I do not find you in this rowdy crowd. When they say, Nothing to worry about, at that very moment they will be lying flat on their faces. (The Complete Sermons of Martin Luther, vol. V, p. 40-41)


Those who are too secure with these heretical teachings, may find themselves lost in the end...