Once in Heaven, can you lose your salvation?

[prashanthd]

Lucifer was created perfect and sinless. Adam and Eve were perfect and sinless. Both were in the presence God. Yet they chose against God and fell.
Once we as Christians get to Heaven, how is our state any different? Can we sin against God even after we are there?
Stranger

The question is - Once in Heaven, can you lose your salvation? (considering that after we are saved and comparing to Satan who was created and never had a chance to salvation)

1 John 3
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

All glory to God.

 

[Dcopymope]

Last I recall, Jesus is God also. And, The Father has committed all judgement to the Son. (John 5:22) "For the Father judgeteh no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:" It is Jesus Christ that is on the throne at the Great White Throne judgment. I am sure the Father will be there, but it is Jesus who is on the throne and judging.

The earth and heaven fled away for the grave action that is getting ready to take place. Jesus Christ sitting as a judge and not as Saviour. And this judgment has already been passed. The dye is cast. There is no more hope. No one wants to be there. And those judged will be facing the one they rejected, ridiculed, blasphemed, etc. etc. No wonder heaven and earth fled away.

Stranger

Well, that was the point I was making. You claimed his dwelling place, or his "house" will stay in heaven when it states the exact opposite. Immediately after the throne judgement, "God" himself along with his dwelling place, "the tabernacle" descends from heaven in new Jerusalem. You should be sure he will be present, because it states it on no uncertain terms multiple times. The same "house" Jesus Christ prepared for us in heaven is the same "house" that the Father himself will dwell in on the new earth. Yes, Jesus is God, but a distinction is still made between the "word of God" and "God Almighty".

(Revelation 19:10-13) "And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. {11} And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. {12} His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. {13} And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God."

(Revelation 21:22) "And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it."

 

[Stranger]

The question is - Once in Heaven, can you lose your salvation? (considering that after we are saved and comparing to Satan who was created and never had a chance to salvation)

1 John 3
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

All glory to God.

I agree. And just like that will be true for us in Heaven, so it is true for us now. As it was accomplished when we placed faith in Christ. Which means if we cannot lose our salvation once in Heaven, neither can we lose it here.

Stranger

 

[Helen]

Again.

NO!!

 

[Pipiripi]

The question is - Once in Heaven, can you lose your salvation? (considering that after we are saved and comparing to Satan who was created and never had a chance to salvation)

1 John 3
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

All glory to God.

My brother an other lie of the devil. The day human cannot sin anymore, is the day Jesus come back for the SECOND time. You are already sinning to teached people false doctrine. A doctrine that was invented in the 1900.... I think is time for me to wrote this completely false rapture story.

 

[prashanthd]

Again.

NO!!

I know it is not easy to understand this verse. As this is the word of God so it is truth whether you like it or not! How does this work, it needs to be understood

 

[prashanthd]

My brother an other lie of the devil. The day human cannot sin anymore, is the day Jesus come back for the SECOND time. You are already sinning to teached people false doctrine. A doctrine that was invented in the 1900.... I think is time for me to wrote this completely false rapture story.

First, you did not provide any references from the Bible.
Second, it is not a surprise to find people here with strange doctrines which are never heard of and they eventually fade away never being heard.
Third, I consider it rude to reject a verse from the Bible (did I give any explanation?) without backing it up from the Bible. In case you are not guided by the Word of God, I cannot communicate with you.

Philippians 2
3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

Anyway, welcome to the forum, make friends, develop fellowship and give glory to God.

 

[Godssrvr]

The day human cannot sin anymore

Is the scripture in 1 John 3:9 referring to a human, or that which has been "born of God"? Some can't seem to recognize anything spiritual at all, but it's the only way the Word of God can be understood. This verse is speaking of the spirit of the person "in Christ" that "cannot sin" because it has been made perfect "in Him". Is our mortal body "in Christ", or our spirit? According to Romans 8:10 the "body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness". The "righteousness" spoken of here is that of Christ. Our spirit is made "the righteousness of God in Him" (2 Cor. 5:21). The "new creature" is our spirit which is born of God, and made one with Him (1 Cor. 6:17).

 

[Pipiripi]

First, you did not provide any references from the Bible.
Second, it is not a surprise to find people here with strange doctrines which are never heard of and they eventually fade away never being heard.
Third, I consider it rude to reject a verse from the Bible (did I give any explanation?) without backing it up from the Bible. In case you are not guided by the Word of God, I cannot communicate with you.

Philippians 2
3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

Anyway, welcome to the forum, make friends, develop fellowship and give glory to God.

If you don't notice that everything i said is in the Bible, because you don't know your BIBLE. And aslong your mind is based on literal things you never can get the spiritual things.

 

[Helen]

I know it is not easy to understand this verse. As this is the word of God so it is truth whether you like it or not! How does this work, it needs to be understood

Hello my friend.
I don't believe that once we are saved we can lose out salvation...so even less do I believe that once in heaven we can then lose our salvation.

But I though the OP was a good question....ie, if Lucifer could fall from heaven ( which actually I am not sure that the passage isn't referring to Adam, not Satan...but right here thats not relevant.) and Adam fall in the Paradise of Eden...how come we can't/wont fall.
Very good question

But, I believe the son's are sealed in Jesus...one with Him...

Bless you. Helen.

 

[mjrhealth]

How on earth did this topic start anyway, how ridiculous to think that once you are in heaven you could possibly loose your salvation. There is no flesh nor temptation in heaven and you are there because you are "saved" it is finished, job done, can we now end this ridiculous topic. Or is it Jesus wont find faith on this earth when He returns, because reading some of these topics there doesnt seem to be much going around.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Let me confirm to all that in no way will we ever be able to lose our salvation once we are in heaven. No way will we lose our eternal life which is in Jesus Christ. My motive for this subject was in reading the 'once saved always saved' thread and the amount of people who believe you can lose your salvation. I do not believe once one is a believer that they can lose their salvation.

In thinking on this subject it appears to me that if you can't lose it there, then you can't lose it here. Why? Because everything that God has accomplished for us in securing our salvation, has been done on this side. Everything that keeps us securely in Heaven is that we are in Christ. But when did we get in Christ. Here.

Stranger

Not once you're in Heaven - but we're NOT in Heaven yet.

One CAN lose their secure place while still on earth - and the Bible is clear on this point:

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.

For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot "blot out" a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God "take away" somebody’s share of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

 

[Dcopymope]

How on earth did this topic start anyway, how ridiculous to think that once you are in heaven you could possibly loose your salvation. There is no flesh nor temptation in heaven and you are there because you are "saved" it is finished, job done, can we now end this ridiculous topic. Or is it Jesus wont find faith on this earth when He returns, because reading some of these topics there doesnt seem to be much going around.

Never would have thought that a simple question concerning the affairs in heaven would be seen as a lack of faith.

"There is no flesh nor temptation in heaven"

And yet, temptation started in heaven with Satan, the anointed cherub, so I would seriously reconsider this assumption. As far as there being no flesh. How do you explain the ascension of the two witnesses???

(Revelation 11:11-12) "And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. {12} And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them."

Never mind the ascension of Jesus and the other bodily ascensions written throughout. Whenever someone claims that flesh under any circumstances cannot dwell in heaven I always bring up these scriptures because at no point is it ever stated that a change of state occurs before they enter 'heaven'. Likewise, no change of state is ever stated to occur with the bodily descent of Jesus and his army from heaven either. They come directly from heaven decked in white clean clothes. Its easy to pretend to know exactly what "spirit" is and how it relates to the flesh instead of just admitting that you really don't know a hot damn thing about it.

 

[Stranger]

Not once you're in Heaven - but we're NOT in Heaven yet.

One CAN lose their secure place while still on earth - and the Bible is clear on this point:

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.

For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot "blot out" a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God "take away" somebody’s share of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

Save your long list for another. I've answered these in the past. Did you read through the posts that I wrote? The point of the thread is, because we cannot lose our salvation in Heaven, then we cannot lose it here either. That which secures us forever in heaven, was done for us here when we placed faith in Christ. The very reasons we cannot lose our salvation in Heaven are the reasons we cannot lose it here.

If you disagree, then explain what was done to secure our salvation in Heaven, so that we can never be lost or sin there, that was not accomplished for us here in our experience of salvation.

Stranger

 

[mjrhealth]

Never would have thought that a simple question concerning the affairs in heaven would be seen as a lack of faith.

"There is no flesh nor temptation in heaven"

And yet, temptation started in heaven with Satan, the anointed cherub, so I would seriously reconsider this assumption. As far as there being no flesh. How do you explain the ascension of the two witnesses???



Never mind the ascension of Jesus and the other bodily ascensions written throughout. Whenever someone claims that flesh under any circumstances cannot dwell in heaven I always bring up these scriptures because at no point is it ever stated that a change of state occurs before they enter 'heaven'. Likewise, no change of state is ever stated to occur with the bodily descent of Jesus and his army from heaven either. They come directly from heaven decked in white clean clothes. Its easy to pretend to know exactly what "spirit" is and how it relates to the flesh instead of just admitting that you really don't know a hot damn thing about it.

That depends on wheter we speak of teh "flesh" as in teh body we live in or teh "flesh " as in the way we behave. Faith, seems very few people believe God can save them, somehow mankind seems to be greater than God, it all end once we are with our father, if it doesnt than this whole thing is a farce and Gods an idiot. But than I just put it down to mens unbelief because I know God is no fool and will achieve his final goal whether men believe Him or not.

 

[Dcopymope]

That depends on wheter we speak of teh "flesh" as in teh body we live in or teh "flesh " as in the way we behave. Faith, seems very few people believe God can save them, somehow mankind seems to be greater than God, it all end once we are with our father, if it doesnt than this whole thing is a farce and Gods an idiot. But than I just put it down to mens unbelief because I know God is no fool and will achieve is final goal where men believe Him or not.

We're talking about the numerous bodily ascensions into this place called "heaven", so yes, I'm talking about the "flesh", or the body. What does behavior have to do with this??? Its irrelevant. There are a lot of people here and elsewhere that like to pretend to know how the spirit realm works, and how it relates to "temptation" and "the flesh", and it really rubs me the wrong way. The only thing we know is that it is something that cannot in any way shape or form be observed in our realm of existence unless it reveals itself.

 

[mjrhealth]

We're talking about the numerous bodily ascensions into this place called "heaven", so yes, I'm talking about the "flesh", or the body. What does behavior have to do with this??? Its irrelevant. There are a lot of people here and elsewhere that like to pretend to know how the spirit realm works, and how it relates to "temptation" and "the flesh", and it really rubs me the wrong way. The only thing we know is that it is something that cannot in any way shape or form be observed in our realm of existence unless it reveals itself.

So you are telling me Gods plan is flawed, and you dont believe Him...

 

[Dcopymope]

So you are telling me Gods plan is flawed, and you dont believe Him...

Where did I say that I don't believe him, and that his plan is 'flawed'???

 

[mjrhealth]

Where did I say that I don't believe him, and that his plan is 'flawed'???

Well if you insist we can still sin in heaven and fall from grace than His plan must be flawed. So is it or is it not... Do you really believe we can loose our salvation once in heaven, we wont get there with unbelief, nor unless He has accomplished His works in us.

 

[Dcopymope]

Well if you insist we can still sin in heaven and fall from grace than His plan must be flawed. So is it or is it not... Do you really believe we can loose our salvation once in heaven, we wont get there with unbelief, nor unless He has accomplished His works in us.

Without Jesus Christ in the picture, it ain't gonna matter where you are. Sin is sin, whether its in heaven or earth. I made this quite clear before in my thread "Why the fall had to occur". Things are different now that sin has been atoned for and eradicated.