You inference is off...we have the same spirit although its power and attributed are restrictive....I guess we might need a thread On "what the spirit is??
Are we divine ???
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bbyrd009
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bbyrd009
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but functionally, what does that matter? and how can you be sure, if wheat grow with tares, and all serve God one way or another? You, we, might very well be the whole cake, see. YHWH is properly speaking not even a name, or a word even. But for us, we are told not to pull tares, as seems intuitive--why not?
We might pull up the wheat.
Functionally even, we can't have the nature or the spirit of God. We could only partake of it.
We can't be the whole cake. But yeah, I guess tares serve God too.
bbyrd009
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I pray that they may be one, as we are one
so i dunno, i think we can be perfect, as I am perfect
mothers pretty much do it without thinking about it i guess
Yes even the tares are God's doing....a much deeper thought. Most just want to see the 'good' side of things in God's creation, and forget God accounts for the 'bad' as well...bigger picture
APAK
LOL
Jesus would have liked for us to be one, as in that we should all agree on Christian beliefs that He left us with. But we'd rather each have our own denomination with its very own beliefs. Too bad.
He didn't mean be of one spirit with the Trinity, like Jesus and God are of one spirit.
GodsGrace: your last statement is one to keep safe and to cultivate. I hope you meant it as a question!
Whether you thought it was just a mere passing logical thought, think again. It is a profound statement if stated as a question. You might eventually prove or disprove the trinity model with this thought ....you get the bonus prize if you can mature it. Now I'm not saying it is 'completely' true or be given a 'yes as you stated it....there needs some tweaking....
Bless you,
APAK
It wasn't meant as a question but a statement.
I believe in the "Trinity model".
Now, about maturing it...maybe I can't !
YOU can do some tweaking too. I won't get upset!
GodsGrace: I'm not using you as the door where I nail my grievances on....you seem to be an considerate person. It is only logical that I reply here because of your last two replies....nothing personal...let me pre-tweak in the form of a preamble.....
The preamble:
I for one do want to know the personal spirit that identifies me, considering the spirit of God and the spirit of Jesus, the Christ. The mystery models are designed to be believed without question and because they are said to be beyond our comprehension.
(Joh 14:19) Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.
(Joh 14:20) In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. (ALL ESV)
They do not address the saints, in the Father and the son - and I ask why not? (rhetorical). It’s time to design a complete and understandable model that includes the believer, Jesus our Lord and our Father, and even the angels, in accordance with scripture.
The problem and reluctance to do this redesign is because it would wreck the victorious pagan-derived and politically correct king of models, the trinity model. And that is the rub- most believe people it without question. It is never a popular subject to discuss, usually out of ignorance, and usually treated as taboo and untouchable.
A model of the Creator is worthless if we, as believers and future saints, and the angels, are not included in it. It needs to be all encompassing and comprehensive model.
Bless you,
APAK
ScottA
Well-Known Member
I would say that because Jesus lowered Himself to be as we are (meaning having a fallen nature), a son of man, that men cannot be considered divine until we are born again of the spirit of God.
Also, an interesting considered is, that because we continue in the image of our fallen man even after rebirth, and it is only Jesus who was the image of the Father...our divinity is not outward, and therefore only inward, only spirit.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
ScottA:
I agree with the statement when you said …”that men cannot be considered divine until we are born again of the spirit of God.”
And I agree completely .....”our divinity is not outward, and therefore only inward, only spirit,” if you add something like…. until we are in a glorified state, in the image and divinity of Jesus – both outwardly and inwardly.
Bless you,
APAK
What stops us is most definitely us. I really believe if and when we completely surrender, we will completely overcome, which is what Jesus in his body of corruptible flesh did. If and when we do this how like Him will we be?
"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2
How much "like" him is that?
"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7
...Equals unending Life
"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Rev 2:11
...Equals no more concern about dying.
"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it." Rev 2:17
...Equals eating of hidden manna [what?], receiving a white stone [which is?], and having our new name [which is?]
"And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
And I will give him the morning star. Rev 2:26-28
...Equals receiving power over nations... and the morning star
"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Rev 3:5
...Equals clothed in white raiment, not blotted out of book of life
"Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name." Rev 3:12
...Equals becoming a pillar in God's temple
"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." Rev 3:21
...Equals sitting with Him in his throne.
Do we understand better where and what we will be now?
"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12
To say no is to say that they all failed in spite of God's help and so must we also. I don't believe that at all. The only difference the man Jesus was his lack of a personal sinful history. Once we, with God's help, get rid of our personal sinful history, why can we not from that point accomplish what He did: overcome all of the obstacles between us and the Father!
I would say rather that the power is restricted only insofar as we have restricted it. The question would be then: Who has not so restricted it? Is possible for a man to stop restricting the power of God? I would say, yes, if we ask for the right help from the right source at the right moment:
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?" Matt 7:7-11
Amadeus: Splitting hairs here. I agree with you in general, although I would say even if we ask from the right source at the right moment, God will still restrict the power to us and in attribute (meaning for what purpose) ....God is the source and even when Christ was on earth his Father was still restrictive although generous with what power he gave him - his authority. Since his resurrection, Christ was given all authority on earth and in heaven...means pretty well all power..?
Bless you,
APAK
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