Are we divine ???

[Dcopymope]

could you give me an example of something you believe is truth that can be backed up with Scripture?

choose carefully ok

I quoted Paul almost verbatim in my last reply, in post 292. Here, compare and contrast.

(2 Corinthians 5:1-6) "For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. {2} For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: {3} If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. {4} For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. {5} Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. {6} Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:"

(1 Corinthians 15:40-58) "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. {41} There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. {42} So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: {43} It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: {44} It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. {45} And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. {46} Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. {47} The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. {48} As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. {49} And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. {50} Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. {51} Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, {52} In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. {53} For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. {54} So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. {55} O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? {56} The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. {57} But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. {58} Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord."

The same body that is sown in corruption will be raised incorruptible. He basically repeats himself saying that the earthly body will be raised and transformed into the incorruptible body prepared for us in heaven. Now I'll be waiting for the oracles on here to point out where Paul ever states that the glorified body will be a different body. I'll also be waiting on the oracles to point out where he ever states that this body makes us "divine" or sinless.

 

[GodsGrace]

I quoted Paul almost verbatim in my last reply, in post 292. Here, compare and contrast.



The same body that is sown in corruption will be raised incorruptible. He basically repeats himself saying that the earthly body will be raised and transformed into the incorruptible body prepared for us in heaven. Now I'll be waiting for the oracles on here to point out where Paul ever states that the glorified body will be a different body. I'll also be waiting on the oracles to point out where he ever states that this body makes us "divine" or sinless.

Only God is divine.
But our glorified bodies will be sinless.
Is this what the argument is about???

 

[bbyrd009]

God is in complete control.

imo "control" implies engagement with Creation in the herenow, which does not fit with the rest of your nihilist perspective very well, does it? What "control" would a creator have over the contents of a completed film in a can?

 

[bbyrd009]

Only God is divine.
But our glorified bodies will be sinless.
Is this what the argument is about???

i think it's more about recognizing that we "put on" incorruption, iow the same body that was sown in corruption is the same body that puts on incorruption, today, not a different body tomorrow

 

[GodsGrace]

i think it's more about recognizing that we "put on" incorruption, iow the same body that was sown in corruption is the same body that puts on incorruption, today, not a different body tomorrow

It's the same body. It's US. We will recognize the person, but it will be a glorified body. The body we have now will put on incorruption.

I don't care for the New Living Translation, but it's good for this.

1 Corinthians 15:53

New Living Translation
For our dying bodies must be transformed into bodies that will never die; our mortal bodies must be transformed into immortal bodies.

Our bodies will be transformed, made new.
But we're not getting NEW bodies.

transform
UK /trænsˈfɔːm/ US /trænsˈfɔːrm/
change completely theappearance or character of something or someone,especially so that that thing orperson is improved:

The object, in this case the body, will be made different in a better way, but it won't be brand new in the sense that it will be different.

 

[Dcopymope]

Only God is divine.
But our glorified bodies will be sinless.
Is this what the argument is about???

Is it impervious to sin because of the bodies themselves or is it because Jesus Christ put away sin on the cross? Jesus Christ compared the glorified bodies to that of angels, in that the curse of death will no longer apply to us. He never said it would anything about it making us sinless or "divine". There really isn't that much of a mystery as to what it will be. Satan is an angel, "perfect in his ways", yet he fell into temptation, so there is no reason to believe that us being made immortal like them will magically make us unable to sin. What makes the creation truly new is the atonement. Our sins will no longer be remembered, and this world won't even come to mind because of the atonement, not because he transforms us from a 1967 Camaro into a 2018 Camaro. This is what the oracles conveniently ignore because they want to frame the natural body as if its mere existence is "very bad" from its inception in contrast to God stating it to be "very good".

 

[GodsGrace]

Is it impervious to sin because of the bodies themselves or is it because Jesus Christ put away sin on the cross? Jesus Christ compared the glorified bodies to that of angels, in that the curse of death will no longer apply to us. He never said it would anything about it making us sinless or "divine". There really isn't that much of a mystery as to what it will be. Satan was an angel, "perfect in his ways", yet he fell into temptation, so there is no reason to believe that us being made immortal like them will magically make us unable to sin. What makes the creation truly new is the atonement. Our sins will no longer be remembered, and this world won't even come to mind because of the atonement, not because he transforms us from a 1967 Camaro into a 2018 Camaro. This is what the oracles conveniently ignore because they want to frame the natural body as if its mere existence is "very bad" from its inception in contrast to God stating it to be "very good".

I guess I could be really slow at times.
What are you talking about?????
You're talking about the glorified body above, are you not?
WHEN do we receive this glorified body?
In heaven of course, at the end of time.
So, are you saying we could still sin when we have our glorified body but Jesus is STILL covering for our sins????

And yes, we WILL be made from a 1967 Camaro into a 2018 Camaro.
This is what a glorified body is all about --- the transformation.

 

[GodsGrace]

Is it impervious to sin because of the bodies themselves or is it because Jesus Christ put away sin on the cross? Jesus Christ compared the glorified bodies to that of angels, in that the curse of death will no longer apply to us. He never said it would anything about it making us sinless or "divine". There really isn't that much of a mystery as to what it will be. Satan is an angel, "perfect in his ways", yet he fell into temptation, so there is no reason to believe that us being made immortal like them will magically make us unable to sin. What makes the creation truly new is the atonement. Our sins will no longer be remembered, and this world won't even come to mind because of the atonement, not because he transforms us from a 1967 Camaro into a 2018 Camaro. This is what the oracles conveniently ignore because they want to frame the natural body as if its mere existence is "very bad" from its inception in contrast to God stating it to be "very good".

P.S. It's impervious to sin because of the body itself.
Our glorified bodies will not sin.

 

[Dcopymope]

I guess I could be really slow at times.
What are you talking about?????
You're talking about the glorified body above, are you not?
WHEN do we receive this glorified body?
In heaven of course, at the end of time.
So, are you saying we could still sin when we have our glorified body but Jesus is STILL covering for our sins????

And yes, we WILL be made from a 1967 Camaro into a 2018 Camaro.
This is what a glorified body is all about --- the transformation.

No, I'm saying that his atonement is what makes us impervious to sin, the bodies themselves are irrelevant. Like I said before, God can have you fetching leaves off a tree like the rest of the world if he wanted to. Those who want to make the tree of life and Jesus Christ synonymous may believe it applies to them, but it sure as hell won't apply to me. They have leaves on a tree, whereas I have the blood of Jesus. It is by his blood that I am healed and the record of my sins are purged. I have the blood, the oracles can buzz off and chew on some some leaves for all I care.

 

[Dcopymope]

P.S. It's impervious to sin because of the body itself.
Our glorified bodies will not sin.

If that was the case then God would have just created Adam and Eve with the glorified bodies to begin with similar to angels, and all would have been fine, no tree of life would even be necessary. He could have made our bodies like the angels without Jesus just like he did Moses and Elijah. Of course he didn't, because it doesn't address the sin. God is no fool, he knew what he was doing.

 

[ScottA]

?
who's speculating here?
you know you are the font of truth, and i know you're a fairly evil nihilist,
no better or worse than anyone else.
So how bout you get over your superiority complex?
notice how every discussion with you ends up being about you?
and i mean every single one; try and find an exception

so i mean i have no problem pitying you, or even just feeling sympathy for you if that's what your going for, but frankly i'm tired of providing fodder for your irrelevant jumping-off points, wadr, while you skip any meaningful replies. Need an example lemme know k there's like 20 in my last 4-5 posts

Man...have you got it all wrong.

If I maintain that "the flesh profits nothing", and that all things are according to the timelessness and eternal nature of God rather than men and the world, it is only because it is all about God, and not about me. So...if you make it all about me, it is you projecting a your own problem with God's plans to use the weak to humble the haughty...which is no compliment to me, certainly no superiority, but I accept it because it is good in His eye, even if you have it all wrong and call me evil.

As for meaningful posts...this one is enough.

 

[jaybird]

Would you please provide me with biblical evidence for this statement? 'I would think' is personal opinion.

it is my opinion which is exactly why i wrote it.
do you believe there is no transformation? we die and after death we become . . .flesh and blood man again?

 

[ScottA]

imo "control" implies engagement with Creation in the herenow, which does not fit with the rest of your nihilist perspective very well, does it? What "control" would a creator have over the contents of a completed film in a can?

Certainly it does not fit your understanding of what I have conveyed of the truth. It is not one or the other. It is the world that is an image of the reality of God. But if you say that the world and the old earth and universe are their own reality, then I can only partially agree, much as one would agree that a picture of a thing is the thing itself, when it is not, but is only an image but can be viewed as the same. And if that offends you, it is only a gauge of your attachment to it, not my knowledge of the truth. But your analogy of film in a can also indicates a lack of understanding of the timing, and that you are not comprehending the translation of time into eternity as it pertains to "all truth" promised by Christ.

 

[bbyrd009]

not sure why you say "offended" there, i'm just trying to get an answer to how you resolve an apparent dichotomy.

 

[ScottA]

not sure why you say "offended" there, i'm just trying to get an answer to how you resolve an apparent dichotomy.

God has given the answer: Heaven and earth, the kingdom and the world.

But each has it's own perception of time, and yet the Author is the standard, not His creation. Therefore, if we are to become One with Him, we will adopt His ways and leave the world behind.

 

[pia]

hmm, imo i would rely on the actions and ignore the professions of belief myself, "Little children" and all that

That is of course your right....

 

[pia]

Are you an existential believer

I wouldn't say that, but I do not ever want to exclude Him from each of my 'today's '..

 

[bbyrd009]

That is of course your right....

well, imo judge by the fruit, ppl can profess whatever they like, see

 

[pia]

@bbyrd009 Hahaha, I seem to recall me being pounced upon when I suggested we should look for the fruit a few weeks back....Can't remember who though...