Are we divine ???

[APAK]

How does the above scriptures you cited as 'proof' of our divinity line up with this scripture?



Do you think this statement will magically become null and void once we are 'transformed'? Scripture gives no indication that it will, nor has it ever been the case today or 'in the beginning' in heaven or earth. If the creation was ever as divine as God, then God wouldn't have had anything to be concerned about to begin with and he wouldn't need to send his son to atone for our sins. The transformation is not a mystery. Its all about transforming this current body into that similar to an angel, making us immortal. It will not nor will it ever make you sinless. What makes the creation sinless is Jesus Christ and him alone. Your spirit allegedly being "divine" now or in the future will have jack spit to do with it. The 'transformation' will have jack spit to do with it.

Dcopymope: who said your scripture passage you quoted becomes null an void, now or in the future. I never said it or even thought it. What I have said here in congruent with this scripture.

It concisely says that God Almighty chose his elect/servants. He is the one and only God (He is, His spirit is, the only source of divinity if you will) and is the foundation of our Salvation. So, what is your point again...what does make creation sinless mean? Jesus Christ worked with his Father 'as' one spirit to make Salvation possible for us.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Dcopymope]

Dcopymope: who said your scripture passage you quoted becomes null an void, now or in the future. I never said it or even thought it. What I have said here in congruent with this scripture.

It concisely says that God Almighty chose his elect/servants. He is the one and only God (He is, His spirit is, the only source of divinity if you will) and is the foundation of our Salvation. So, what is your point again...what does make creation sinless mean? Jesus Christ worked with his Father 'as' one spirit to make Salvation possible for us.

Bless you,

APAK

He put away sin on the cross, that's what I mean by the creation becoming sinless. He is the sole reason why "he will remember our sins no more". The transformation is.........well..........it really ain't important when it comes down to it.

 

[face2face]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

So, does that make us divine from rebirth?



APAK

No...being chosen does not necessitate one being divine.

 

[soul man]

We are called God’s own people….

(1Pe 2:9) But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. (ESV)

(1Pe 2:9) But you are his chosen people, the King's priests. You are a holy nation, people who belong to God. He chose you to tell about the wonderful things he has done. He brought you out of the darkness of sin into his wonderful light.(ERV)


Peter says that believers use the divine nature of God - his power and knowledge.

(2Pe 1:3) His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence,

(2Pe 1:4) by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. (ALL ESV)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

So, does that make us divine from rebirth?

On earth, did not Jesus ‘use’ the same divinity of his Father from birth?

If so, then are we not ‘as’ divine as Jesus, when he was born?

If not, they do we have and use a different spirit than Christ?

Or is it the same one that Jesus used yesterday and today – that of the Father’s spirit?

What say you?

Bless you,

APAK

Good post, my understanding is we are partakers of the divine nature (Christ in you) but that doesn't make the believer divine.

 

[OzSpen]

Jesus said we must be born again.
He meant now.
John 3:3

GodsGrace,

You are spot on. Eternal life begins now and continues as long as one continues to believe.

John 5:24 (ESV) is an example to confirm this: ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgement, but has passed from death to life'.

What is the meaning of the present tense in Greek? The aorist tense may be represented by a dot (•). It happened. The present tense by a line (___________) of continuous action (uninterrupted, without a break) or (----------), repeated action. The perfect tense is represented by a combination of the two (•_____________) [Dana & Mantey 1955:179].

We can apply this understanding of the Greek present tense to John 5:24 (ESV): ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears [present tense] my word and believes [present tense] him who sent me has [present tense] eternal life. He does not come into judgement, but has passed from death to life’.

Therefore, the verse means that those who continue to hear Jesus’ word and continue to believe him, continue to have eternal life. The verse does not teach that a person who once believed and no longer believes has eternal life. Eternal life is for those who continue to believe. That’s what the Greek tenses teach in John 5:24.

Oz

 

[Taken]

We are called God’s own people….

(1Pe 2:9) But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. (ESV)

(1Pe 2:9) But you are his chosen people, the King's priests. You are a holy nation, people who belong to God. He chose you to tell about the wonderful things he has done. He brought you out of the darkness of sin into his wonderful light.(ERV)


Peter says that believers use the divine nature of God - his power and knowledge.

(2Pe 1:3) His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence,

(2Pe 1:4) by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. (ALL ESV)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

So, does that make us divine from rebirth?

On earth, did not Jesus ‘use’ the same divinity of his Father from birth?

If so, then are we not ‘as’ divine as Jesus, when he was born?

If not, they do we have and use a different spirit than Christ?

Or is it the same one that Jesus used yesterday and today – that of the Father’s spirit?

What say you?

Bless you,

APAK

Men Divine?

Divine, is defined as God or God Like.
I disagree.

God IS Divine; never having Sin.

Men CAN become LIKE God, without becoming God.

Becoming LIKE God, by default means the man was FIRST NOT LIKE God, and something occurred for the man to BECOME LIKE God.

Only God IS God.
For a man to BECOME "LIKE" God, means;

AFTER;
The confession, repentance of the man...
AFTER;
The the forgiveness, body cleansing and sanctification, the soul restoratation, the spirit quickening...by the Lord....

That the MAN continues daily TRANSFORMING his own natural mind, to becoming a MIND "LIKE" Christ.

As this is being accomplished, by the man's efforts, and the Power of God, the man IS becoming "LIKE" God.

This is scripturally called; A mans Perfection..
Divine? Eh no.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[GodsGrace]

GodsGrace,

You are spot on. Eternal life begins now and continues as long as one continues to believe.

John 5:24 (ESV) is an example to confirm this: ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgement, but has passed from death to life'.

What is the meaning of the present tense in Greek? The aorist tense may be represented by a dot (•). It happened. The present tense by a line (___________) of continuous action (uninterrupted, without a break) or (----------), repeated action. The perfect tense is represented by a combination of the two (•_____________) [Dana & Mantey 1955:179].

We can apply this understanding of the Greek present tense to John 5:24 (ESV): ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears [present tense] my word and believes [present tense] him who sent me has [present tense] eternal life. He does not come into judgement, but has passed from death to life’.

Therefore, the verse means that those who continue to hear Jesus’ word and continue to believe him, continue to have eternal life. The verse does not teach that a person who once believed and no longer believes has eternal life. Eternal life is for those who continue to believe. That’s what the Greek tenses teach in John 5:24.

Oz

Amen to that!
Many times I use the explanation of the present tense, but many do not accept it.
It gets tiring to tell you the truth.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You need a definition for divine.
With no definition, the answer would be no.
We are not God and we are not like God.
And we will not be spiritually complete on this Earth.
1 John 1:8-10
John said we sin.
God does not sin.

Agree. It depends of what the definition for divine is:

1 Corinthians 13:3-8
[3] And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor , and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. [4] Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, [5] Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; [6] Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; [7] Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. [8] Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

1 Corinthians 13:13
[13] And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Exodus 34:6
[6] And the Lord passed by before him, and proclaimed, The Lord , The Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

Ephesians 4:2-3
[2] With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; [3] Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Colossians 3:12-14
[12] Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; [13] Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. [14] And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

Galatians 5:22-23
[22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Divine sounds so much better when we are speaking of divine as being Holy (man's definition of Holy). But I ask: is long suffering a part of being "divine" and if so, are we not to display those attributes of "divine"...Now. The fruit is the Spirit as being divine?

 

[GodsGrace]

Agree. It depends of what the definition for divine is:

1 Corinthians 13:3-8
[3] And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor , and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. [4] Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, [5] Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; [6] Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; [7] Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. [8] Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

1 Corinthians 13:13
[13] And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Exodus 34:6
[6] And the Lord passed by before him, and proclaimed, The Lord , The Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

Ephesians 4:2-3
[2] With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; [3] Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Colossians 3:12-14
[12] Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; [13] Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. [14] And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

Galatians 5:22-23
[22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Divine sounds so much better when we are speaking of divine as being Holy (man's definition of Holy). But I ask: is long suffering a part of being "divine" and if so, are we not to display those attributes of "divine"...Now. The fruit is the Spirit as being divine?

Great point.

We're made in the image of God in the sense that we have some of his attributes.
For instance, we are moral, we're social beings, we can "create"...music, art, etc.
Adam and Eve had preternatural gifts, like immortality, but even they weren't like God.
As proven by the fall.
If I bark, does that let me be like a dog?
It's impossible for us to be divine because it would mean we have the nature of God.
We are born with the sin nature... God has the nature of God and there is only one God.

 

[GodsGrace]

We are called God’s own people….

(1Pe 2:9) But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. (ESV)

(1Pe 2:9) But you are his chosen people, the King's priests. You are a holy nation, people who belong to God. He chose you to tell about the wonderful things he has done. He brought you out of the darkness of sin into his wonderful light.(ERV)


Peter says that believers use the divine nature of God - his power and knowledge.

(2Pe 1:3) His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence,

(2Pe 1:4) by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. (ALL ESV)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

So, does that make us divine from rebirth?

On earth, did not Jesus ‘use’ the same divinity of his Father from birth?

If so, then are we not ‘as’ divine as Jesus, when he was born?

If not, they do we have and use a different spirit than Christ?

Or is it the same one that Jesus used yesterday and today – that of the Father’s spirit?

What say you?

Bless you,

APAK

No one is responding as to what spirit we use.The same one as Jesus?
There's only one spirit,,,the Holy Spirit.

This brings up an interesting question.
Did Jesus use the Holy Spirit?

First we need to consider the Holy Trinity.
Jesus is the spirit, and the spirit is Jesus.

Second, Jesus was fully man, and fully God.
So, I'd have to say that, no, He did not use the Holy Spirit as we do.

 

[bbyrd009]

No one is responding as to what spirit we use.The same one as Jesus?

the same One He gave us anyway, ya

 

[bbyrd009]

It's impossible for us to be divine because it would mean we have the nature of God.

be partakers of the divine nature is in There somewhere, i'm pretty sure

 

[APAK]

(Php 1:6) And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. (ESV)

So, a believer is (being) ‘perfected’ to the image of God as Jesus Christ is already?

(Rom 3:23) for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, (ESV)

Does this Romans verse imply that we all shall have the fullness or ALL of God, or a hefty portion of God’s spirit in our possession as Christ because we shall shed our sinful nature?

(2Co 3:18) And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit. (ESV)

Or shall each believer have a specific level of perfection (Image of Christ) and glory (power) at Christ’s return?

I would imagine we will automatically gain much more power of the spirit in our glorified bodies?

(1Jn 3:2) Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. (ESV)

The saints are to be ‘like’ angels, and like Christ, right?

APAK

 

[Deborah_]

We are called God’s own people….

(1Pe 2:9)

Yes

Peter says that believers use the divine nature of God - his power and knowledge.

(2Pe 1:3) His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence,

(2Pe 1:4) by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. (ALL ESV)

No. "God's divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life." (NIV) That's not at all the same as "using" God's divine nature. God gives us what we need, as and when we need it... the initiative is His, and continues to be His. The power for living a godly life comes from Him, not from us. But we don't have unlimited access, and it isn't under our control.

So, does that make us divine from rebirth?

On earth, did not Jesus ‘use’ the same divinity of his Father from birth?

If so, then are we not ‘as’ divine as Jesus, when he was born?

If not, they do we have and use a different spirit than Christ?

Or is it the same one that Jesus used yesterday and today – that of the Father’s spirit?

Are we divine from rebirth? No. We are linked to God through His Spirit, and He is at work within us - but that doesn't make us "divine".
"Did not Jesus ‘use’ the same divinity of his Father from birth?" Jesus is fundamentally different from us in that He is God's eternal Son who became human. He didn't "use" His Father's divinity (what a weird expression!) - He is divine in His own nature.
So no, we are not (and never can be) "as divine as" Jesus.
But we do have the same Spirit. "If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ." (Romans 8:9) That is how we become more like Him, while never being the same as Him. (The Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ are one and the same - see Romans 8:9)

 

[bbyrd009]

So no, we are not (and never can be) "as divine as" Jesus.

be perfect, as I am perfect

if you are at rest, and seeking to serve, andf loving your neighbor, and confessing any shortcomings as they arise, i'm not sure what else i might even ask of you, Deb

 

[bbyrd009]

Or shall each believer have a specific level of perfection (Image of Christ) and glory (power) at Christ’s return?

I would imagine we will automatically gain much more power of the spirit in our glorified bodies?

hmm, what is stopping anyone from being there now, do you think?

 

[APAK]

hmm, what is stopping anyone from being there now, do you think?

Human nature ...a corrupted outer mind....APAK

 

[bbyrd009]

Human nature ...a corrupted outer mind....APAK

ok so then the next Q is is it possible that anyone in history has overcome that, is it possible that we can too, etc

 

[APAK]

ok so then the next Q is is it possible that anyone in history has overcome that, is it possible that we can too, etc

One person, Jesus Christ...he had a predominance of the spirt of his Father over hos human nature from birth.....and then especially after his baptism.....we cannot unless our Father gives us the same power of spirit as Jesus possessed....

 

[bbyrd009]

One person, Jesus Christ...he had a predominance of the spirt of his Father over hos human nature from birth.....and then especially after his baptism.....we cannot unless our Father gives us the same power of spirit as Jesus possessed....

well, so iow we can if our Father does give us the same Spirit then, right