Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[Heb 13:8]

First of all - there are no "Titles" in Scripture regarding paragraphs. this was inserted by whomever worked on that particular translation. You wouldn't even have Chapter and Verse, had it not been inserted by the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages, let alone titles . . .

I totally agree. It's similar to how we don't title Luke 16:19-31 as a parable, as we should.

As to the verses regarding eternal life - there are irrelevant if you have walked away from God. Eternal life is something you'd have to get back by returning to faith again and enduring to the END.

It's something you'd have to get back? Not much of a gift then is it. How do we get back something that wasn't ours to begin with?

I am confident that I have eternal life - but as Paul says: 1 Cor. 4:4 "I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby justified. It is the Lord who judges me."

Justified by your works or your belief?

Rom 10:10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Amen. NOTHING and NOBODY can separate me from God. The ONLY one who can do that is MYSELF . . .

1 Cor. 9:27 "I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."

Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

BOL, this is referring to the five crowns believers receive or do not receive at the Bema seat. What is the prize Paul is referring too? Take a look...

1 Crown of Life
2 Incorruptible Crown
3 Crown of Righteousness
4 Crown of Glory
5 Crown of Exaltation

1 Cor 9:24-27 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. 25Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

 

[Heb 13:8]

In John 3:5, Jesus tells Nicodemus that we must be born again of WATER and Spirit to enter Heaven. TWO chapters earlier, we read about the Baptism of Jesus - and what do we see?? Spirit and WATER - you know - the wet kind . . .AFTER Jesus ;leaves Nicodemus, where does He go?? He goes a'Baptizin' with the Apostles. Guess what they use?? They use WATER. You know - the wet kind . .

And that's what the religious see, "the wet kind", but that's all you will be is wet without belief.

NOWHERE do the Scriptures tell us that the Church will be pulled out of the world prior to the time of Tribulation. That's just wishful thinking by those who don't want to suffer. The Early Church suffered GREATLY. They were crucified, beheaded, fed alive to wild animals, burned alive, etc. Those at the END of time will be lifted into the clouds to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thess. 4:17) - NOT before.

BOL, the last trump and the great trump are seven years apart. These are two separate trumps explained by two separate words...

1 Thess 4:17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up (harpazó) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

Matt 24:31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather (episunagó) his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

 

[Heb 13:8]

to you it might be, to me it is not wadr. Faith is singular, beliefs can be plural, and there are other differences, despite that they share a synonym. The point being that faith can be counterfeited too

Faith is also unseen, all you can see is what I post on this forum. Luke 16:31

 

[Heb 13:8]

I came across a non-osas believer recently, and he says faith and belief are not synonymous. I would disagree, just another lie from the pit of hell. They deny the Greek, then they deny the Word of God.

pisteuó: to believe, entrust
Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Short Definition: I believe, have faith in
Definition: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.

pistis: faith, faithfulness
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Short Definition: faith, belief, trust
Definition: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

2 Cor 10:7 You are judging by appearances. If anyone is confident that they belong to Christ, they should consider again that we belong to Christ just as much as they do.

Phil 1:6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Phil 1:14 And because of my chains, most of the brothers and sisters have become confident in the Lord and dare all the more to proclaim the gospel without fear.

2 Cor 2:3-4 I wrote as I did, so that when I came I would not be distressed by those who should have made me rejoice. I had confidence in all of you, that you would all share my joy. 4Such confidence we have through Christ before God.

Rom 8:38-39 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,k neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 John 5:9-14 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

 

[Taken]

In John 3:5, Jesus tells Nicodemus that we must be born again of WATER and Spirit to enter Heaven.

TWO chapters earlier, we read about the Baptism of Jesus - and what do we see??
Spirit and WATER - you know - the wet kind . . .

AFTER Jesus ;leaves Nicodemus, where does He go?? He goes a'Baptizin' with the Apostles.
Guess what they use?? They use WATER. You know - the wet kind . . .

Water ... even the "wet kind", as if their is another kind...lol, funny.

Water was routinely used to CLEANSE the (corrupt) body.
It was taught and acceptable for Priests to Cleanse themselves before entering the Temple.
To cleanse their feet before walking on holy ground.
To cleanse, cleanse, cleanse, WITH WATER.

John the Baptist CALLED to cleanse the WHOLE body ... with "wet" water...lol

A foreshadow; of one becoming CLEANSED in Jesus' PURE BLOOD.
But first you would have to KNOW, all the water cleansing, ( is an act of men) and is a prelude to cleansing (of an act of God) that is greater and Permanent.

And the TRUE Spiritual Baptism of Permanently receiving the indwelling of the HOLY SPIRIT.

NOWHERE do the Scriptures tell us that the Church will be pulled out of the world prior to the time of Tribulation.

You require a plain one-liner in your own words revealed in Scripture, for you to comprehend according to your mind.

The KNOWLEDGE is revealed throughout the teaching IN Scripture.
The UNDERSTANDING of the knowledge is revealed to individuals FROM GOD.

So while you repeatedly present your Carnal minded argument; there is NOT a Carnal minded answer to a Spiritual event!

That's just wishful thinking by those who don't want to suffer.

Oh good grief...Don't WANT TO SUFFER?
You have got to be kidding. Men who have become saved and born again; are subject to suffering daily. Bad mouthed, bullied, houses burned, publically mocked, and killed.

The Early Church suffered GREATLY. They were crucified, beheaded, fed alive to wild animals, burned alive, etc.

Open your eyes man; tribulations of saved and born again men is not exclusive to the "early" church, it's still under your nose today!

Those at the END of time will be lifted into the clouds to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thess. 4:17) - NOT before.

There is a difference between the Son of man descending to the clouds, calling up his CHURCH, who are saved, born again, righteous, and have peace, and then another calling up of men who, during the first 3 1/2 years, turn to Christ and become His, then, the Great Tribulation during the last 3 1/2 years,
Void of His people, Void of God, the Gods Wrath upon the earth, then His descending to earth.

And it's this kind of stupid, brainless remark that feeds the evil of anti-Catholicism . . .

Stupid and brainless; is irrelevant when it comes to Spiritual things. Spiritual things are about Understanding things according to God and the Spiritual relationship between God forward to a mans spirit, not his mind.

And FYI- I doubt anyone is considering, gee, I wonder what the Catholics think; who cares what any other man "thinks with his mind"; when they are more concerned with Understanding what their Spirit God has prepared for their understanding.

 

[tabletalk]

I came across a non-osas believer recently, and he says faith and belief are not synonymous. I would disagree, just another lie from the pit of hell. They deny the Greek, then they deny the Word of God.

pisteuó: to believe, entrust
Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Short Definition: I believe, have faith in
Definition: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.

pistis: faith, faithfulness
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Short Definition: faith, belief, trust
Definition: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

2 Cor 10:7 You are judging by appearances. If anyone is confident that they belong to Christ, they should consider again that we belong to Christ just as much as they do.

Phil 1:6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Phil 1:14 And because of my chains, most of the brothers and sisters have become confident in the Lord and dare all the more to proclaim the gospel without fear.

2 Cor 2:3-4 I wrote as I did, so that when I came I would not be distressed by those who should have made me rejoice. I had confidence in all of you, that you would all share my joy. 4Such confidence we have through Christ before God.

Rom 8:38-39 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,k neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 John 5:9-14 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

You said: "...a non-osas believer recently, and he says faith and belief are not synonymous. I would disagree, just another lie from the pit of hell."

It seems there is a distinction made between faith and belief in the verse, below, from Galatians. Any thoughts on this?

From Galatians 3:22. "But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe."

 

[Taken]

I came across a non-osas believer recently, and he says faith and belief are not synonymous. I would disagree, just another lie from the pit of hell. They deny the Greek, then they deny the Word of God.

Actually, I believe OSAS, and also believe faith and belief are not synonymous.

Consider:
Belief is what flows from a man, to God.
Trust is what flows from a man, to God.
Faith is what flows from God, to man.

They are not synonymous; however those things ARE intermingled as a man is in the process of BECOMING intermingled on a SPIRITUAL level with God.

The Process has a Beginning, and builds bit by bit until the GOAL is reached OR foiled.

The Beginning for the NATURAL man IS becoming aware; Hearing, Reading, etc.

It is the man's action, of Hearing....
Belief? No Trust? No Faith? No
Hearing the Word of God. Yes.

God provides His Word; available world wide.
Man simply has to decide to Hear and Listen.

(A mans job, (service, works) WHO is saved and born again IS, in it's very basic form, to simply Speak the Word of God, for others TO hear, and become aware, and perhaps have their interest sparked, that they (being curious creatures that man is, to want to hear more).

THIS, "hearing", is the point, where God steps in. After all, It is HIS WORD that is being HEARD, by an individual, (who is NOT YET) with Him.

Any man that IS hearing the Word of God, IS being enlightened. And WHO IS Light, but God Himself? Point being; When a man IS Hearing the Word of God; the man IS being given HOLY knowledge, about a HOLY God, who IS WHAT? He is the GIVER OF FAITH, that is GIVEN SPIRITUALLY, by a SPIRIT God, forward TO any man WHO IS HEARING His Holy Word.

So AS the man IS Hearing, and being given measures (bit by bit) of Faith....the man is now Becoming prepared; to ponder, think about, dwell on what he is hearing.

He will believe, doubt, wonder, question, believe, accept, reject, believe.....the Knowledge about numerous things he is Hearing. And?
As long as the man continues hearing, discovering more knowledge......WHAT?
God IS GIVING the man FAITH.

And IF the man lands on, eh, no way, could never believe that.....then WHAT?
Well, what does a man do when he QUITS something? Continue to do it? Continue to hear? No. He walks away, stops hearing, stops being curious. He heard enough to decide NOT to trust the knowledge, and not put his time toward listening to more.

And God does WHAT? Keeps giving that man Faith? No.
That man has now fallen from Faith, and receives no more faith from God.
That man has jeopardized his own opportunity to have his Heart filled with Faith;

That man IS NOT heartfully Prepared to Believe, Trust, or have Gods fullness of Faith given him; for the man TO call on the Lord and Receive Salvation From the Lord.

And thus, the man jeopardized his own opportunity To Receive and Take Salvation that God already prepared for him TO Receive and Take.

Whereas a MAN WHO, continues hearing, learning THE WORD of GOD;
His BELIEF and TRUST is INCREASING...
Precisely because God is GIVING the man FAITH.

THAT man is being Prepared TO receive and take His Gift of Salvation the Lord has Prepared for him TO receive and HAVE FOREVER.

And we ALL HOPE, "ONCE" we "HAVE RECEIVED SALVATION".....that we can "HANG ON TO IT and NOT LOSE IT" Right?

EH....Wrong, Wrong, Wrong!

Salvation ONCE RECEIVED;
IS NOT KEPT BY THE MANS hopes or actions!
IT IS KEPT UNTO THE MAN;
BY THE POWER OF GOD!

But, but, WHAT IF, the man CHANGES HIS MIND and wants to GIVE HIS SALVATION BACK TO GOD?

Impossible; on many fronts...
1) Receiving of Salvation has NOTHING to do with a mans MINDS thoughts.
2) Receiving of Salvation is ALL ABOUT the mans HEARTS thoughts.
3) The mans Heart, was Natural, WHEN Salvation was given.
4) The mans Heart, was Changed to Spiritual, WHEN Salvation was received unto the man.
5) A man who THINKS he is RECEIVING salvation BASED on his MINDS thoughts; is in error. God was NOT giving FAITH to the mans MIND, to make a MINDFUL decision, to build the mans mind in trust and belief.
6) A man who THINKS in his MIND; eh I'll take the Salvation, and see if I like it and want to keep it or give it back....IS a fool, who does not know; A mans MIND IS AGAINST GOD; and GOD seeks the Hearts thoughts, not the MIND thoughts of a man.
7) A man who THINKS he can FOOL God; eh say YES to Receiving Salvation; then Shame God and throw His great gift back at Him; IS a fool, who does not know; God is All knowing; And He is not fooled by his own creations!
8) A man who THINKS he can ASK God MORE THAN ONCE, "TO RECEIVE" the gift of Salvation from God; IS a fool. To ASK GOD for His Gift of Salvation MORE THAN "ONCE", IS A SHAME unto God.
9) Men CANNOT Shame God; but repeatedly can SHAME themselves.
10) Gods GIFT of Salvation; is Given a man ONCE, and received unto the man ONCE, and Kept unto the man FOREVER; as repeatedly taught in Scripture.
11) Forever, taught out of the mouth of God, does not mean, kind of, sort of; AS men WHO kind of, sort of, make Forever promises THEY DO NOT KEEP.
12) Men WHO PREACH, God's FOREVER, IS "SUBJECT TO", a mans wishy washy changing will, IS a fool.
13) Gods WORD IS TRUE and FAITHFUL; regardless of what the created proclaims.
14) Men WHO CLAIM, but, but, a man CAN LOSE His SALVATION....

Well no kidding. Salvation IS a Gift. It comes with a PROVISION, that it MUST BE Requested ( ding, ding, ding....call on the Lords Name ) to be RECEIVED, before it is EFFECTED that the man actually RECEIVES IT AND HAS IT.

15) But, but, but.....Scripture is FULL of examples of men; commonly exposed as Christians, Believers, being Giving Salvation and then LOSING IT.
WRONG!

16) Scripture is FULL of "STUDENTS", being enlightened WITH the WORD of GOD, learning something new, and being enlightened (receiving SPIRITUAL faith, from God), (NOT SALVATION), and their tripping up, still sinning, not knowing, (eh remember they are STUDENTS, learning)...being corrected BY their "teachers";
THEY ARE BEING PREPARED....

Just like the disciples were PREPARED for 3 years of hearing, learning KNOWLEDGE, and believing, doubting, wondering, believing....
BEFORE they WERE prepared with a heart ready to Confess TO THE Lord; as they did.

And thereafter, they "ONCE" and "FOREVER" received Salvation; AND the Indwelling HOLY SPIRIT, that "KEEPS" their Faith-FULLNESS unto GOD ONLY FOREVER.

Heb 13:8 ~ Men who attempt to ARGUE AGAINST a man receiving his SALVATION "ONCE and Forever"; argue with their minds thoughts and understanding; which HAS ZERO to do with Spiritual Understanding of a Spiritual event that God Spiritually exacts ONCE and FOREVER forward to the man, WHO chose to Hear, become enlightened with Gods WORD, and receive Faith in his heart, TO be prepared to call on the Lord and Receive HIS GIFT of Salvation ONCE and FOREVER from the Lord; whom the Lords POWER Keeps such man unto Himself Forever.

Arguing Spiritual things with a mans mind; IS Fruitless and Moot.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

It does seem obvious since after death it's too late.
Thanks for clarifying.

You would think, after death OBVIOUS, yet some teach, all will be saved, which is in error.

It is true, ALL WILL BELIEVE, but not all will be Saved.

It is true, ALL Bodies shall be Raised, but not all will be glorified.

The decision making for a man to Receive Salvation is during the time, the man is ALIVE in his own body. The body's life is it's BLOOD.
After physical DEATH, which is the death of the BODY, it's BLOOD, when raised up;
Glorified
Or
Not
It is void of it's LIFE, (ie it's blood), and thus cannot THEN receive salvation for It's Life.

The one whose body is raise glorified, is the manifestation of its Spiritual bodily life (void of blood)

The one whose body is raised WITHOUT glorification, is VOID of its blood and having received a Spiritual bodily life.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

ok, more rungs on that ladder wadr, the story can be read other ways too

Everything can be read TWO WAYS and understood TWO WAYS.

THAT IS the phenomenon and mystery of Scripture.

We have MINDFUL thoughts and HEARTFUL thoughts.

The MIND thinks, weights this thought and that thought, tries to determine Logically what makes sense to a carnal mind.
Which is exactly what a "student" in learning does.

The HEART simply Believes, Trusts, Gods Word IS; without weighing and trying to make sense to the mind.
Which After, trusting to believe Gods Word simply IS without debate; IS Gods gift of Understanding given the man. His Understanding according to His Wisdom.
See? It is not given us to decide with our minds what the Lord means, but rather be patient for Him to give us His Understanding of what His Word means.

God Bless.
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

A deathbed conversion is not easy. The heart is too hard by then.
But with God anything is possible.

But you bring up an interesting question...
Can we be saved out of fear?? Or only love??

i guess it depends upon your definition of saved

 

[bbyrd009]

As for "why doesn't God just zap us off to heaven the day we are saved."
You know the answer to that one too.
You know He told us to be fishers of men...and that can't be done 'in heaven.'

hmm, i would submit that that can only be done from heaven

Constantinianism was the practice of waiting to profess and getting baptized right before death, among other things i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

Why is it always "either-or" with you? And never BOTH??

because of how we define "beliefs" now, differently from the way a scientist would define "theories." Iow allowing room for the possibility of new understanding. We define "beliefs" more like "truths" now, or "facts," right

 

[bbyrd009]

It is not given us to decide with our minds what the Lord means, but rather be patient for Him to give us His Understanding of what His Word means.

i guess both should happen, but we have a propensity to believe what we want to come true, and ignore anything that disputes the belief

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

• Those that believe "once saved always saved" is true (16.67%)
  
  
• Those that believe "once saved always saved" is a false docterine. (50%)
  
  
• Not sure. (33.33%)

This is good to see this poll.
It makes me realize how much help people need on this forum.

 

[BreadOfLife]

True.
False. A man submitted unto God, is Kept by the Power of God forever.

1 Cor 9:27
But I "KEEP UNDER" my body
AND bring it (my body) INTO Subjection:
Lest by any means,
WHEN I have preached to OTHERS,
I MYSELF should be a castaway.

Paul is speaking about his own bodily behaviors (hello, that OTHERS can SEE).
Paul is speaking of KEEPING his own bodily behavior IN SUBJECTION to a good behavior;
THAT OTHERS CAN SEE;
THAT if he is preaching and then ACTING in opposition to his preaching OTHERS HEARING, may CAST HIM AWAY, and NOT LISTEN TO HIM PREACHING the Gospel of Christ.

Paul doesn't WANT to lose listeners to his preaching the Gospel of Christ....
Thus he is teaching; if one is going to Preach; Keep your bodily behavior in subjection to what you ARE Preaching; or you chance YOUR LISTENERS casting you away.

Jesus admonished the Pharisees for their own bodily behaviors.
Paul was a Pharisee and learned this lesson From Jesus, and now repeats the lesson.

Some preachers today, stand in the pulpit and preach, then are found to be bodily obscene.
The preachers Listeners (congregation) casts him away. They fire him, or leave that church. (Unless perhaps if they are Catholic, and how they deal with such, is different).

This has nothing to do with the Lord who HAS saved a man; Casting the man away.

WRONG.

God doesn't "force" a person to stay with Him - just as he doesn't force anybody to follow Him.
The god that YOU have invented is a Cosmic Rapist who forces His love on his followers.

God doesn't drag ANYBODY kicking and screaming into Heaven if they don't want to be with Him.

 

[bbyrd009]

It just seems to me like you aren't 100% sure of your salvation in Jesus Christ.

i would say that that is bc i have a different definition of salvation now that i can only have a hope of, as Scripture says. Understand I AM comes into play there

 

[bbyrd009]

I came across a non-osas believer recently, and he says faith and belief are not synonymous. I would disagree, just another lie from the pit of hell. They deny the Greek, then they deny the Word of God.

yes, faith and belief share one synonym, but while you have found the one faith there, you maybe have not found the 5 ways "belief" is defined, that kind of present a more complete picture. Faith tends more to allow room for error or misunderstanding, whereas beliefs tend to be adhered to as if they represented absolute truth, at least usually.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

WRONG.

God doesn't "force" a person to stay with Him - just as he doesn't force anybody to follow Him.
The god that YOU have invented is a Cosmic Rapist who forces His love on his followers.

God doesn't drag ANYBODY kicking and screaming into Heaven if they don't want to be with Him.

Cosmic rapist - you would use such disgusting words to describe God.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Cosmic rapist - you would use such disgusting words to describe God.

Not MY God - not the God of Scripture.
This is a "god" that has been invented by those who believe in OSAS.