The correct answer results for each person whose heart is turned toward God. I don't trash anything. If we are being led by God He will lead us truly.
The Word
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You have entered into a discussion where I and pia are talking about the Bible being the written Word of God. I am not talking in generalities of how God will always lead us and show us the way. Thus the things I say are to bear on that point. Is the Bible the written Word of God?
Pia and others have concluded it is not. Due, she says, to the different accounts of same events found in it. To which I have attempted to show how ridiculous that is because her method of determining the Word of God becomes only something between her and God. Which in turn means the Word of God is to every believer what every believer has experienced it to be. And how many 'accounts' are you going to get of that? Proabably as many as there are believers.
Thus, my question. Why reject the Bible as the Word of God for some 'reason' when your own acceptance of the Word of God does the same if not worse? Or, why trash the Bible as not the Word of God when your own method of determining the Word of God results in the same.
If indeed, one does not see the Bible as the written Word of God, then yes they are trashing it. They are not attributing to it what God has. So, if you do not see the Bible as the written Word of God, then you are trashing it. You are calling it less than what it is. If you just say 'God will always lead us' but reject the Bible as the Word of God, you are trashing it.
Stranger
tabletalk
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The Word of God is the sword of the Spirit.
Can a person be walking in the Spirit, but at the same time deny that the Scriptures are the very Word of God?
From Ephesians 6:17. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;...
Can a person be walking in the Spirit, but at the same time deny that the Scriptures are the very Word of God?
From Ephesians 6:17. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;...
bbyrd009
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Word will not violate the Bible, and the Bible is not being "trashed" by realizing the proper definition of Word, that is after all the same definition we have today for it, it has not changed, you know exactly what it means to give your word, right. But God's Word is somehow different, see.
Calling the Bible the Word would of necessity cause you to not look for Word where It is given, right?
Ergo ppl who insist that the Book is the Word are by def those who have never heard Word, and not only that,
have not bothered to verify all this with the Book, which never claims to be Word anyway right.
bbyrd009
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Now the Book of Truth, that would be Word, right, Word is Truth.
Only Scripture is not the Book of Truth, either; as It will also tell you
Only Scripture is not the Book of Truth, either; as It will also tell you
You want a black and white answer that fits in with how you look at things. I have several paper paged Bibles in my home. Some of them have not been opened for a while. While closed they are not the Word of God regardless of their contents and regardless of what written version they are or what language they written in. When opened what a man reads from them and is quickened to him [brought to Life] is the Word of God. If it is not quickened it is not because the Word of God is alive according to verses the very book of which we speak. Here is one example:
"Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee." Psalm 119:11
Do we hide the pages in our heart or the ink used to print words on the pages? No!. If we memorize a verse, is that verse hidden in our heart? Maybe, but not necessarily. If it is not quickened within us it is not the Word of God. Any atheist can memorize a verse of scripture and remain an atheist until he dies. Yet the verse I cited above gives the reason for hiding it within is in order not to sin against God. Only if and when it is the Word of God will it keep us from sin. The quickening comes, if it comes at all, from the Holy Spirit working within a man.
And so if you can prove you are right in your own mind and that they are wrong, will that change what the Truth is? How does one obtain the Truth? Each of us may say that Jesus is the Truth and be correct in the saying, but that does not say anything about whether or not we know the Truth or how much of the Truth we know, does it?
Because a person cannot exchange words with you [argue or discuss] and convince you of error, does that mean you are right in the eyes of God? Would it make me right in the eyes of God?
God is no respecter of persons. He knows exactly what each of us has and what we do not have. This includes intelligence, understanding of the Bible, understanding of the Word of God [assuming it is different from the Bible as some would say], education, etc.
It is easier for a person to please God who has memorized the Bible than for a person who is illiterate and therefore has never read the Bible?
Can smarter people get closer to God than those with only average or even below average intelligence according to man's measurement of intelligence?
The answer is in this verse, if we can understand it:
"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48
The results are not the same.
A person who had no Light at all within him when he read the Bible would receive nothing from God. But what person is in such a state? Recall this verse if you can understand it:
"That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." John 1:9
To me it says that every man born of woman has a glimmer of Light. It is not enough Light for salvation, but it is enough to seek more if the person is so inclined. It is enough Light so that he is properly directly he can receive more Light which is the Way to salvation.
If a person really believes that the written Book of the Bible alone is the Word of God and they have received the Holy Spirit in their lives and they then rejected it I might agree, for God does judge us according to what we have.
You are however deciding for God what His judgment would be based on your understanding of Him. Is your understanding of God complete and flawless? Mine certainly is not. Every day I must seek Him again and I must surrender to Him again in order to make it through the next moment or all of this one day.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9
And then this one:
"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23
So then what does Jesus say about this situation? What has changed for a man since Jesus made a Way where there was no way and opened a Door when the way to Life had been closed?
"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26
God will always lead a sincere hungry and thirsty heart in accord with what He has given the person. That may well include access to a written Bible. A few years ago I met a man from Central America who was illiterate in the only language he spoke, which was Spanish. He had never read a Bible because he could not read at all. His testimony to me was better than most of the testimonies I have seen among many literate Americans I have seen who have access at any time they desire to a written Bible. The Holy Spirit makes the difference. The Bible when it is available also can make a difference, but NOT without the Holy Spirit.
Because people either do not have the Holy Spirit to lead them or because they regularly quench the Holy Spirit within them we have literally thousands of different beliefs or denominations based on the Bible. If the Bible alone is the Word of God, why is that ?
prashanthd
Active Member
I was wondering why this thread was going on so long! The first thing for a person to determine before becoming a Christian is to confirm if the Holy Bible is the Word of God. If not which book should one believe to become a Christian.
It is the Bible which makes one wise unto salvation. It's a hearty laughter to find why people are struggling after becoming Christians. About the last statement of @amadeus , the reverse of the statement is correct. It is because the Bible is The Word of God, there so many people, organizations, and investments worldwide with whatever understanding they have to serve Jesus. Else, none of them would have mostly existed.
I don't try to convince any, because I think it is God's work to convince someone. When it was my turn, I tried and God helped me understand. Good luck!
prashanthd
Active Member
... If anyone claims to have become Christian by The Spirit and not from what was written in the Bible, then only God knows which spirit is in you. I can only see the fruits of The Spirit, which are again written in Bible.
Since when was Bible being called written word? Recently right?
Since when was Bible being called written word? Recently right?
All of us need to sift through what we hear from what we consider good sources before jumping to conclusions and embracing them as God's truth.... If anyone claims to have become Christian by The Spirit and not from what was written in the Bible, then only God knows which spirit is in you. I can only see the fruits of The Spirit, which are again written in Bible.
Since when was Bible being called written word? Recently right?
How does one correctly sift?
A sincere teacher of the things of God is a blessing to those who are listening to him, but unless that teacher is already an overcomer as Jesus was an overcomer, some things may still come out of his mouth which are in error. This why each of us needs help to tell the difference between truth and error. The Bible is a good place to find what we need, but as we see when satan was tempting Jesus, even apparently good words can be used with evil purposes. If a person's heart is black and his intentions are black would we really expect him to get a white conclusion from the Bible?
On the other hand, if our heart is hungry and thirsty after righteousness, will God not provided what is needed?
How does one develop a hunger and a thirst for righteousness?
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened." Matt 7:7-8
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you" Matt 6:33
@prashanthd
Some time ago your question is not even one I would have even asked or considered, but as you see some people always have questions... and sometimes it might be you or me that was the one available to try and help them. God has the answers to every question a man could ask. Remember Joseph and Daniel who interpreted the dreams of other people.
Concerning the Bible being the Word of God, a black and white answer is all that is needed. And you have provided your answer that the Bible is not the Word of God.
The Word of God, the Bible, exists as the Word irregardless of how people view it. When I witness to someone I will show them in Scripture about Jesus Christ. Yet they say that is a bunch of bull. Is it? Or is it still the Word of God?
When God speaks, is it His Word? Yes. If God writes it down, is it His Word? Yes. And God has written it down in the Bible. But apparently you and others only acknowledge God's word if He is talking to you.
And why, as with others, do you keep quoting Scripture if it is not the Word of God? You offer nothing outside of Scripture, and quote the Scripture, all the while denying the Scripture.
You say the Holy Spirit makes the difference. Yet the Holy Spirit was instrumental in the writing of the Scripture which you deny.
What benefit is it to you to not believe the Bible is the Word of God?
Stranger
I was wondering why this thread was going on so long! The first thing for a person to determine before becoming a Christian is to confirm if the Holy Bible is the Word of God. If not which book should one believe to become a Christian.
About the last statement of @amadeus , the reverse of the statement is correct. It is because the Bible is The Word of God, there so many people, organizations, and investments worldwide with whatever understanding they have to serve Jesus. Else, none of them would have mostly existed.
I don't try to convince any, because I think it is God's work to convince someone. When it was my turn, I tried and God helped me understand. Good luck!
Just always remember brother, what Jesus said, "It is written". (Matt. 4:4,7,10) And always remember what satan always says, "yea, hath God said". (Gen. 3:1)
Stranger
Communication.
It is not to someone who cannot hear it. Or looking at it more in your way, it is the Word of God, but to someone who is blind and deaf to it, it is still meaningless.
Again if a person does not have "ears to hear" and "eyes to see" what difference will it make to him?
Oh but I do not deny a single word of the scripture, not even any words that I cannot understand. My understanding came to me through the written scriptures as it was quickened within me by the Holy Spirit. I cannot speak for other people. My point is simply that if the written words of the Bible page are never quickened in a person where is the Life?
Yes, it was by and through the Holy Spirit that the writers were inspired. They wrote the Word of God down and in the Book it lay dormant awaiting the need to be awakened or brought to Life. But without that same Holy Spirit no man can bring the words on the page to Life within himself.
But the content is there if one can understand it? That is what the Holy Spirit does... brings it to Life. What would the Body be without the Blood? Just a dead body!
Pay attention. Is the Bible the Word of God or not. It doesn't matter what someone may think of it. Is it the Word of God. And you say no.
You deny every Scripture that declares the Bible to be the Word of God. So, don't say you don't.
What the Holy Spirit does with the written Word of God is not the question here. Is the Bible the written Word of God? You say no. Sad decision.
It doesn't matter if a person has ears to hear or not. Is the Bible the Written Word of God is the question. To which you say no.
It doesn't matter what the Holy Spirit does with the written Word of God. That is His business. But it, the Bible, is still the Word of God. To which you say no it is not.
Again, what benefit is it to you to believe the Bible is not the written Word of God?
Stranger
You are repeating yourself and, no, you have not heard what I said. It did not fit your pattern so it was water off a duck's back. It is not the general logic of man but it is the logic of Stranger and without it apparently no one can do a thing. Even God is bound by your rules as you put it. I guess we are finished here as you cannot hear me and you have nothing new to say.
pia
Well-Known Member
No actually....I will do it the way He has shown me...although there are only a few things that I know for an absolute truth, that is what I am sticking to...Not my interpretation of the bible
pia
Well-Known Member
When I finally got the reply I wrote here, it had been after many years of struggling trying to make peace between what I had witnessed and what other christians were telling me I had to believe, because according to them that was what the bible taught...Trouble was, a couple of different fellowships had different ideas...so I really began asking Him....I can't help the answer I got..that is what He said !!.......In case you didn't read it, He did confirm that there are Word from God to man in the Bible, but thankfully He put into perspective for me, by there also being other words in there.....As I have said many many times on this forum.....I can't make Him or what He has said real for anyone else...but He can, if they would ask Him....Those of you who do not like His answers, what am I supposed to do about that ? So I will follow what He has shown me, and you can do what seems right to you....I am still learning every single day of my life and I expect that to be so until the very end.
pia
Well-Known Member
Amen .....If only we could come together and do that, there would be such love and such unity....Now that is something that would make the world pay attention...
pia
Well-Known Member
pia
Well-Known Member
prashanthd
Active Member
Again I do not want convince you. I think this thread was started in a pathetic manner only to discover the next day, the member leaving this forum. The member had a happy exit while the rest of the members are involved in the show. I think that this thread should not become immortal because of a careless post by a member who was all set to leave.
I often find you quoting from the Bible in this forum, so I wanted to share-
Proverbs 26
7 The legs of the lame are not equal: so is a parable in the mouth of fools.
9 As a thorn goeth up into the hand of a drunkard, so is a parable in the mouth of fools.
This is where I think we have a difference. You say that "written" scriptures have to be brought to life. "no man can bring the words ...". I'm not going to correct you or convince you. I just share that it is actually the other way around. The written words do not need to be quickened as they are already with the Holy Spirit and are alive. That's how it was written, and that's how it remains. Word of God is in Spirit and not physical. Only once it was in flesh and blood. The words written in Bible are Spirit and not physical. They are not dead. They are very much alive. Again, I'm not trying to convince you. It is for you to understand.
I have a lot to say! I think this is not the right thread as it has a pathetic OP where the member claims others to be religious. The member himself should learn to be religious first. Why to give a dozen pages on this thread!
These days every one is used to watching Christian programs on TV one after the other where a person stands in front of a bunch of people goes on teaching. This happens almost 24/7. As a result, when people come to a forum they begin to teach. Whereas Jesus wants us to be swift to hear and slow to speak. Well, people are learning the opposite from Christian Television.
The member had a happy exit while the rest of the members are involved in the show. I think that this thread should not become immortal because of a careless post by a member who was all set to leave. I often find you quoting from the Bible in this forum, so I wanted to share-
Proverbs 26
7 The legs of the lame are not equal: so is a parable in the mouth of fools.
9 As a thorn goeth up into the hand of a drunkard, so is a parable in the mouth of fools.
This is where I think we have a difference. You say that "written" scriptures have to be brought to life. "no man can bring the words ...". I'm not going to correct you or convince you. I just share that it is actually the other way around. The written words do not need to be quickened as they are already with the Holy Spirit and are alive. That's how it was written, and that's how it remains. Word of God is in Spirit and not physical. Only once it was in flesh and blood. The words written in Bible are Spirit and not physical. They are not dead. They are very much alive. Again, I'm not trying to convince you. It is for you to understand.
I have a lot to say! I think this is not the right thread as it has a pathetic OP where the member claims others to be religious.
The member himself should learn to be religious first. Why to give a dozen pages on this thread! These days every one is used to watching Christian programs on TV one after the other where a person stands in front of a bunch of people goes on teaching. This happens almost 24/7. As a result, when people come to a forum they begin to teach.
Whereas Jesus wants us to be swift to hear and slow to speak. Well, people are learning the opposite from Christian Television.Similar threads
