According to Christianity

[bbyrd009]

Agree, Heb 11 ends with " These all died in faith..not having received the promise, but seeing it a far off..."

I still maintain...even with my dying breath...that there is no risk in God...God pays all debts..He is no mans debtor...
You are not a futurist, so you wont agree that none of us have seen "the end of our faith..." yet!!

One day ( which you hate to agree with) we will see what our faith produced .."whether it be gold , silver and precious stones, or wood hay and stubble. "

In Heb 11 ...they didn't get it now...but they saw it..and knew their faith was NOT "a risk".

Blessings.....H :)

imo they had a diff def of "faith," but i understand your point.

I can see what my sowing has produced pretty much every day, and i might argue that beliefs do not produce anything; but at least they entail no risk. So imo we are talking at cross purposes mostly, and Heb 11 is being perceived somewhat differently as well.
Count the cost certainly suggests some risk i guess

 

[Willie T]

1 Corinthians 15:12-20 kinda tells us even Paul admitted he was risking everything on his belief.

 

[Stranger]

I certainly don't doubt your faith/belief. However, I would love to understand how you actually 'know' you are right? So far, you are presenting logical fallacies, which will certainly not validate, or convince anyone else. Anyone can go on a forum, and assert things. However, this is not very useful, if you are trying to help others (which is what I thought part of the reason a forum even exists).

Thnx

The Christian has an ability or access of knowledge or knowing that no other has. It comes from God via His Spirit to the believer in Christ who has the Spirit of Christ. Thus the Christian can 'reason' and 'know'. But it is not based on the worlds method of reason and knowing. It is not based on the science and logic of the world. But, it is real to the Christian, because it is real knowledge to the Christian from God.

Is it supernatural, yes of course it is. When you deal with God you are in the realm of the supernatural. Is it miraculous, yes of course. When you deal with God you should expect the miraculous.

When I tell you, I believe. I mean it. I really believe it. Why, because I know it. Nothing in the world could make me cease believing it. I might be tortured so that I tell my torturers that I don't believe, but then I would be lying. And even though I lied, I would still be a believer.

The Christian has a knowing that those of the world do not have. They don't just believe. They know.

Thus, you see, your method of knowing, of learning, of proving, does not work in the realm of God. You are not using the right tools....you do not have the right tools to use to access this knowledge.

And you have discarded the key that opens the door to this, which is faith. Faith in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Saviour.

Stranger

 

[ScottA]

Okay, then prove what you say is actually real, by demonstrating truth in scripture. Please pray for my amputated limb to grow back, as from (Matthew 7:7, Matthew 21:22, Mark 11:24, etc...). This would take you far less time then responding to this post in words.

When/if my limb does grow back, I will then believe and [know], as stated prior. I will then do my darndest to prosthelytize Christianity, as much as possible, and spread the word, 1 Peter 3:15 style.

Otherwise, you actually [know] no better then I if a true meaning to life exists postmortem. And your words and statement are still proven, as they are now, to be nothing further than blank assertions.

Thank you and I'll be anxiously awaiting your prayer request. Thank you in advance.

The scriptural proof you ask for, I have already given: "all things have become new."

But don't misunderstand. Life cannot prove life to death. But it has been the promise of God, that if you believe that life beyond the world is possible...then you shall have it. There is no promise of restored limbs in the world, except, that if you believe "all things are possible." But to those who do not believe, there is no such promise given.

However, with those who believe "knowledge is increased", which you are not qualified to comment on, for you know nothing of it.

 

[cvanwey]

No..Faith is not a "gut feeling"..Faith comes by hearing...
Romans 10:17 " So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

I'm sorry, but this is classic circular reasoning... You are using the book the 'prove' the book. If someone busted out a verse from a differing claimed holy book, and used a passage about faith, and how it's given by their God, but the description of this God is a differing God, now we are right back to where we started :-)

Please do not use circular logic. Fallacies do not represent any viable standard of truth, unless by accident.

Webster Dictionary....

Faith - belief and trust in and loyalty to God. (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion. b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof.

Oxford Dictionary...

Faith - strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof

*************

We are circled right back to square one.... Which God are we talking about?

I'm sorry, but one must exclude the holy textbooks, since this is where the actual claims begin. You cannot validate the claim, with the claim.

This would be like using a science book to prove truth in the same science book. Meaning, Chapter 2 is right, because chapter 1 says so :-)

 

[cvanwey]

The scriptural proof you ask for, I have already given: "all things have become new."

But don't misunderstand. Life cannot prove life to death. But it has been the promise of God, that if you believe that life beyond the world is possible...then you shall have it. There is no promise of restored limbs in the world, except, that if you believe "all things are possible." But to those who do not believe, there is no such promise given.

However, with those who believe "knowledge is increased", which you are not qualified to comment on, for you know nothing of it.

You believe. This means you can pray for my limb to grow back :-) I'm sure you've prayed for others before right? If you have, did it work? If so, then it will work when you pray for me. If it never did work, then prayer doesn't work; which contradicts your last post ;-)

I'll be waiting. TY!!!!!

 

[Helen]

Please do not use circular logic. Fallacies do not represent any viable standard of truth, unless by accident.

Okay...whatever...

 

[Triumph1300]

You believe. This means you can pray for my limb to grow back :) I'm sure you've prayed for others before right? If you have, did it work? If so, then it will work when you pray for me. If it never did work, then prayer doesn't work; which contradicts your last post ;-)

It's clear you don't believe in prayer.
So, it's no surprise it would not work for you.

There are 1000's of testimonies out there where it did work for people.
Maybe you should focus on that.

 

[cvanwey]

The Christian has an ability or access of knowledge or knowing that no other has. It comes from God via His Spirit to the believer in Christ who has the Spirit of Christ. Thus the Christian can 'reason' and 'know'. But it is not based on the worlds method of reason and knowing. It is not based on the science and logic of the world. But, it is real to the Christian, because it is real knowledge to the Christian from God.

Is it supernatural, yes of course it is. When you deal with God you are in the realm of the supernatural. Is it miraculous, yes of course. When you deal with God you should expect the miraculous.

When I tell you, I believe. I mean it. I really believe it. Why, because I know it. Nothing in the world could make me cease believing it. I might be tortured so that I tell my torturers that I don't believe, but then I would be lying. And even though I lied, I would still be a believer.

The Christian has a knowing that those of the world do not have. They don't just believe. They know.

Thus, you see, your method of knowing, of learning, of proving, does not work in the realm of God. You are not using the right tools....you do not have the right tools to use to access this knowledge.

And you have discarded the key that opens the door to this, which is faith. Faith in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Saviour.

Stranger

This entire response oozes of an 'unfalsifiable proposition'

Unfalsifiability. (also known as: untestability) Description: Confidently asserting that a theory or hypothesis is true or false even though the theory or hypothesis cannot possibly be contradicted by an observation or the outcome of any physical experiment, usually without strong evidence or good reasons.

****************

Just remember that millions of Muslims attest the exact same thing as you, and they 'just know' as much as you. So how might one actually settle such a dilemma?

 

[cvanwey]

Okay...whatever...

Does this mean you will continue to be circular?

 

[Triumph1300]

Maybe you should read a bit less in the Oxford dictionary.

 

[cvanwey]

It's clear you don't believe in prayer.
So, it's no surprise it would not work for you.

There are 1000's of testimonies out there where it did work for people.
Maybe you should focus on that.

Name one documented event, in history, where a verified amputee has had a limb restored? Meaning, spontaneously regrew post prayer? Provide this, and I'm all ears.

You may also want to reach the following prayer study, conducted by Christians BTW:

Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP) in cardiac bypass patients: a multicenter randomized trial of uncertainty and certai... - PubMed - NCBI

This is why prayer in invalid.

 

[Helen]

Maybe you should read a bit less in the Oxford dictionary.

Haha! Funny, Love that!

 

[cvanwey]

Maybe you should read a bit less in the Oxford dictionary.

And less from the Webster dictionary too, right?

If it contradicts scripture, ignore it, right? There we go :-)

 

[Triumph1300]

This is why prayer in invalid.

Why do you classify yourself as a christian?

 

[cvanwey]

Why do you classify yourself as a christian?

"Christian", in America is almost no different than saying, 'human'. Everyone I know invents their own spin from it. Heck, my best friend does not accept practically anything from the old testament as factual, and yet somehow believes Jesus is his savior, while almost not believing any other supernatural story from the Bible. Most are 'cafeteria' Christians, aren't they?

 

[Nancy]

The Christian has an ability or access of knowledge or knowing that no other has. It comes from God via His Spirit to the believer in Christ who has the Spirit of Christ. Thus the Christian can 'reason' and 'know'. But it is not based on the worlds method of reason and knowing. It is not based on the science and logic of the world. But, it is real to the Christian, because it is real knowledge to the Christian from God.

Is it supernatural, yes of course it is. When you deal with God you are in the realm of the supernatural. Is it miraculous, yes of course. When you deal with God you should expect the miraculous.

When I tell you, I believe. I mean it. I really believe it. Why, because I know it. Nothing in the world could make me cease believing it. I might be tortured so that I tell my torturers that I don't believe, but then I would be lying. And even though I lied, I would still be a believer.

The Christian has a knowing that those of the world do not have. They don't just believe. They know.

Thus, you see, your method of knowing, of learning, of proving, does not work in the realm of God. You are not using the right tools....you do not have the right tools to use to access this knowledge.

And you have discarded the key that opens the door to this, which is faith. Faith in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Saviour.

Stranger

Awesome post Stranger. I especially liked the ending:

"Thus, you see, your method of knowing, of learning, of proving, does not work in the realm of God. You are not using the right tools....you do not have the right tools to use to access this knowledge.

And you have discarded the key that opens the door to this, which is faith. Faith in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Saviour."

 

[cvanwey]

Why do you classify yourself as a christian?

I would love for someone to verify prayer, with limb restoration, and explain the link I provided, which demonstrates failure in petitionary prayer. I doubt this will happen though. Instead, just empty words, re=confirming the Oxford and Webster defined definitions of 'faith'...

 

[cvanwey]

Awesome post Stranger. I especially liked the ending:

"Thus, you see, your method of knowing, of learning, of proving, does not work in the realm of God. You are not using the right tools....you do not have the right tools to use to access this knowledge.

And you have discarded the key that opens the door to this, which is faith. Faith in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Saviour."

Yes, religion is a hell of a drug, isn't it?

 

[Helen]

"Christian", in America is almost no different than saying, 'human'. Everyone I know invents their own spin from it. Heck, my best friend does not accept practically anything from the old testament as factual, and yet somehow believes Jesus is his savior, while almost not believing any other supernatural story from the Bible. Most are 'cafeteria' Christians, aren't they?

So in other words...you are not, because you didn't answer his question that he put to you.

Therefore you must have only written " Christian" so that you could post on the "Christian only" board if ever you feel to.
I get it....