If We Protestants Truly Hated Catholics...

[GodsGrace]

Let's not forget that over that period of time, the CC has also protected thousands of priests and bishops WORLDWIDE who were found guilty of sexual abuse with young children. Are the cover-ups also a part of their *convictions*? Pope Francis tried another cover up recently, then backed off.
https://www.dw.com/en/pope-knew-about-sex-abuse-cover-up-says-chilean-victim/a-42466345

You won't get any argument from me!
I was referring to moral standards in general, having to do with what society accepts.

They have to stop protecting each other.
They have to have their priesthood taken away.
It has to be serious. Children are scarred for LIFE.

 

[GodsGrace]

Thank you for your thoughtful post. We pay a dear price for holding on to principles. Recently, in Philadelphia, a judge ordered a Catholic adoption agency to adopt to same sex couples. This means the agency has no choice but to shut down. This has occurred in 5 other areas in "the land of the free" where the Constitution doesn't apply to Catholics.

Then there is the time when Pope Francis had an unscheduled visit with Angela Davis, a non-Catholic, who got fired for refusing marriage licences to same sex couples. It must have puzzled the anti-Catholics who think Catholicism is exclusive.

Then there is the case where president Obama tried to force nuns to provide abortion and contraception benefits to it's employees.

I posted about how the left-behind-rapture crowd ultimately persecutes Catholicism. You can read it here, post #15

Forums is another matter. We have (some) good sincere Christians who, unknowingly, want to get that Armageddon train a rollin'.

View attachment 3490​

I find it interesting how other religions get more respect than Christianity.
Maybe because Christianity is the most threatening?

All of the above examples you posted show how Christianity is discriminated against. How does a government FORCE anyone to go against their religion?
Muhammad Ali didn't have to serve his country because he was Muslim.
Why aren't Christians treated the same? The govt is so afraid of us?

Rhetorical questions of course.

 

[Marymog]

You mean books that should never have been there? Yes.
The Church in Rome has never had any authority from God - it is the Protestant church that can trace its roots from now back through the Reformation, back through the Dark Ages, and all the way back to Jesus and His followers in Palestine.
The only ones who ended up confused were those like Eck and Tetzel and Moore who attempted to challenge Luther - a champion of the faith who was guided by the Holy Spirit and stood upon the unquestionable authority of the Scriptures. He repeatedly exposed these and many other Catholic leaders as victims of their own convoluted thinking.

The only question is by the time Luther died, had he changed his mind about getting rid of them and accepted them? Of course he did, unlike the Papacy that is STILL wallowing in the same false, unBiblical ideas, beliefs, dogmas, doctrines, etc. that is has since its inception in 538 A.D.

Nice revision of history since the Protestant church started 500 years ago and the Catholic Church started a FEW years before that

Catholic Church inception was 538 AD????? Really??? You bought the wrong history book....You should get your money back.

Thank you for your time.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

ah, well of course you will have a diff view of how the Dark Ages came about, being a Catholic, and i am not interested in making the RCC the scapegoat there per se, as after all that was just ppl doing what ppl do. But imo the statement is a good answer. How do you suppose the Dark Ages culminated?

The dark ages culminated when men, like you and your ilk, began to think they had the authority to properly interpret scripture throwing away 1,000+ years of a single authority. That anti-scriptural fantasy and rebellion of those men resulted in the Reformation and chaos in Christianity. All of a sudden every man like you and your ilk thought had the ability and authority to individually properly interpret scripture.

The Church was no longer speaking as one, like Scripture said we should (Romans 15:6), and we no longer had a Church to take our differences to like Mathew 18:17 says. We now have thousands of churches with opposing interpretations.

After all it was just ppl doing what ppl do......ignoring scripture. Right?

Mary

 

[epostle1]

You said above:
Where is the media when a Protestant minister does that???
(marries a SS couple)

The CC is one of the churches that has held to its convictions through all of the change in the past 40 or 50 years. Maybe more is just expected from those who have higher moral values?

SS couple are getting "married" here to. In quotation marks because marriage of SS persons is not really possible. God has determined what marriage is...not persons or the government.

They get "married" civilly here and is called a civil union. People ignorantly call it marriage - had a nice opportunity to witness to a woman this week about this. She's atheist of course, and a liberal one at that.

She kept repeating that it was a nice, TRADITIONAL WEDDING. I told her it was not traditional...Not what God would like. (in a nice way of course).

I told her they'd adopt a child next. She said noooooo!
LOL
The slippery slope.

But, yes, the CC does not get involved and is to be respected for holding on to its principles.

Thank you for your thoughtful post. We pay a dear price for holding on to principles. Recently, in Philadelphia, a judge ordered a Catholic adoption agency to adopt to same sex couples. This means the agency has no choice but to shut down. This has occurred in 5 other areas in "the land of the free" where the Constitution doesn't apply to Catholics.

Then there is the time when Pope Francis had an unscheduled visit with Angela Davis, a non-Catholic, who got fired for refusing marriage licences to same sex couples. It must have puzzled the anti-Catholics who think Catholicism is exclusive.

Then there is the case where president Obama tried to force nuns to provide abortion and contraception benefits to it's employees.

I posted about how the left-behind-rapture crowd ultimately persecutes Catholicism. You can read it here, post #15

Forums is another matter. We have (some) good sincere Christians who, unknowingly, want to get that Armageddon train a rollin'.

Protestants don't hate Catholics; if they did then they are not true Protestants. Disagreement does not equal derision, but derision leads to anti-Catholicism, and anti-Catholicism is rooted in self hatred. But the real problem occurs when public opinion, swayed by a hostile culture, affects judges, courts, and government leaders. How many years will pass before it becomes illegal to be a Christian? It's already begun, while hate cults push the "Whore of Babylon" distortions.

because nowhere in the Bible is the Bible
pitted against the Church.
​

​

 

[amadeus]

... why we should ignore the "leopards changing spots" verse.
for your sake, not mine

bc i tell you that your "church" is getting worse, not better, and leopards do not change their spots

Can the Cushite change his skin, or a leopard his spots? If so, you might be able to do what is good, you who are instructed in evil.

I agree that it seems to be getting worse, but which church group is not? I have found one that is "less worse", but it is also as a group, as I am able to see it, also diminishing before God. This however is admittedly my opinion. How good is my vision?

 

[GodsGrace]

Thank you for your thoughtful post. We pay a dear price for holding on to principles. Recently, in Philadelphia, a judge ordered a Catholic adoption agency to adopt to same sex couples. This means the agency has no choice but to shut down. This has occurred in 5 other areas in "the land of the free" where the Constitution doesn't apply to Catholics.

Then there is the time when Pope Francis had an unscheduled visit with Angela Davis, a non-Catholic, who got fired for refusing marriage licences to same sex couples. It must have puzzled the anti-Catholics who think Catholicism is exclusive.

Then there is the case where president Obama tried to force nuns to provide abortion and contraception benefits to it's employees.

I posted about how the left-behind-rapture crowd ultimately persecutes Catholicism. You can read it here, post #15

Forums is another matter. We have (some) good sincere Christians who, unknowingly, want to get that Armageddon train a rollin'.

Protestants don't hate Catholics; if they did then they are not true Protestants. Disagreement does not equal derision, but derision leads to anti-Catholicism, and anti-Catholicism is rooted in self hatred. But the real problem occurs when public opinion, swayed by a hostile culture, affects judges, courts, and government leaders. How many years will pass before it becomes illegal to be a Christian? It's already begun, while hate cults push the "Whore of Babylon" distortions.

View attachment 3497
because nowhere in the Bible is the Bible
pitted against the Church.
​

​

Agreed.

 

[GodsGrace]

The dark ages culminated when men, like you and your ilk, began to think they had the authority to properly interpret scripture throwing away 1,000+ years of a single authority. That anti-scriptural fantasy and rebellion of those men resulted in the Reformation and chaos in Christianity. All of a sudden every man like you and your ilk thought had the ability and authority to individually properly interpret scripture.

The Church was no longer speaking as one, like Scripture said we should (Romans 15:6), and we no longer had a Church to take our differences to like Mathew 18:17 says. We now have thousands of churches with opposing interpretations.

After all it was just ppl doing what ppl do......ignoring scripture. Right?

Mary

I agree with you.
But I also believe that absolute power corrupts absolutely.
I don't know of a solution...

 

[Philip James]

I agree with you.
But I also believe that absolute power corrupts absolutely.
I don't know of a solution...

The Holy Spirit!

Pax!

 

[GodsGrace]

The Holy Spirit!

Pax!

Everybody claims to have the same Holy Spirit !

 

[Nancy]

Bottom line? Agape baby-that pure sacrificial kinda love.

 

[Philip James]

Everybody claims to have the same Holy Spirit !

Perhaps, but clearly it is the Holy Spirit that, guides, guards, protects and corrects the Church, down through the ages...

This reminds my of an old story about Napolean...
He said to a cardinal ' dont you know i can destroy the Church?'
To which the cardinal replied: 'good luck, we've been trying to do that for 1800 years..

Pax!

 

[GodsGrace]

Perhaps, but clearly it is the Holy Spirit that, guides, guards, protects and corrects the Church, down through the ages...

This reminds my of an old story about Napolean...
He said to a cardinal ' dont you know i can destroy the Church?'
To which the cardinal replied: 'good luck, we've been trying to do that for 1800 years..

Pax!

LOL
Won't work!!

Pace.

 

[Nancy]

Perhaps, but clearly it is the Holy Spirit that, guides, guards, protects and corrects the Church, down through the ages...

This reminds my of an old story about Napolean...
He said to a cardinal ' dont you know i can destroy the Church?'
To which the cardinal replied: 'good luck, we've been trying to do that for 1800 years..

Pax!

Lol!

 

[Phoneman777]

Please identify this true Christian church... Who are their members, what did they teach?
Are their communities started by the apostles. Can they demonstrate it?

Do they drink from the same cup that Jesus gave to John?

They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number.

Ever heard of a "remnant sale" for carpet or upholstery? You usually get a huge discount for buying the last bit of carpet remaining on the bolt of carpet, or the last bit remaining on the bolt of upholstery, and the absolute only difference is the price -- the remnant piece always looks identical to the first piece that first came off the bolt.

If you want to find God's church at any point in history, the absolute easiest way is to go to Revelation 12:17 and read John's description of God's end time "remnant" church that John says is to exist just before Jesus' return, and then you'll know what to look for:

"And the dragon (Satan) was wroth with the woman (the church) and went to make war with the remnant of her seed (the church of the end times) which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" ("...the testimony of Jesus Christ is the Spirit of Prophecy." - Revelation 19:10)
​

The Church of Rome is disqualified as God's true church on this basis alone. God's church throughout history has always been those who have earnestly striven to live up to all the light that God has commanded them either through His Word or His Spirit, the One having NEVER ONCE contradicted the Other.

 

[Phoneman777]

Nice revision of history since the Protestant church started 500 years ago and the Catholic Church started a FEW years before that

I'm not referring exclusively to the Protestants of the 16th century as the "true church" - there have always been people who opposed error and stood for truth, going all the way back to Abel. And it has always been these that God has considered "His church", not apostates who are so blinded with insanity that they think they can lift up their voices and bargain with God as to which way worship will be rendered, when all they have to bargain with is a lost soul.

Catholic Church inception was 538 AD????? Really??? You bought the wrong history book....You should get your money back.

Please, you're embarrassing yourself. I said the PAPACY - not the Catholic church - began in 538 A.D., which is did.

 

[Philip James]

Ever heard of a "remnant sale" for carpet or upholstery? You usually get a huge discount for buying the last bit of carpet remaining on the bolt of carpet, or the last bit remaining on the bolt of upholstery, and the absolute only difference is the price -- the remnant piece always looks identical to the first piece that first came off the bolt.

If you want to find God's church at any point in history, the absolute easiest way is to go to Revelation 12:17 and read John's description of God's end time "remnant" church that John says is to exist just before Jesus' return, and then you'll know what to look for:

"And the dragon (Satan) was wroth with the woman (the church) and went to make war with the remnant of her seed (the church of the end times) which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" ("...the testimony of Jesus Christ is the Spirit of Prophecy." - Revelation 19:10)
​

The Church of Rome is disqualified as God's true church on this basis alone. God's church throughout history has always been those who have earnestly striven to live up to all the light that God has commanded them either through His Word or His Spirit, the One having NEVER ONCE contradicted the Other.

Shall I take that as a 'no you cant identify this community' or 'no you cant demonstrate that it is an apostolic community?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well, I can understand, and respect, your desire and right to stand up for the facts. Any one of us here would do the same for our beliefs and understandings.
But I do have to wonder how you can claim to know what went on inside every single Catholic Church building. I surely don't know much about the RCC...that I admit to freely. But I can see quite plainly where I live that there are some Catholic Priests in Australia who are trying to claim we need to embrace the homosexual movement, while others don't. There are some Priest's who happily renounce any form of sexual abuse and call it a sin that can and must be dealt with by the law as well as the Church, where you have others who still refuse to inform the authorities even if they know children are being abused; choosing to "keep it in the church". Now...I'm not trying to comment on the state of the abuse, or if there is more or less in the RCC or protestant Church, I am only using those two examples because they are two very visible ones where different Priests believe and teach within their building different things to what, I would suspect, Rome, holds as doctrine. We have similar issues within Protestantism...just saying a church is "Baptist" does not guarantee every Baptist Pastor teaches and believes the exact same thing.

So, again...I see that perhaps you are not allowing for the very real likelihood that Grams IS being truthful, about HER experience. You can both be right, really. Your claims to what the broad RCC teaches are probably correct. But that does not necessarily mean you have to assume, and accuse, someone of lying. At least not initially. As Christians, shouldn't we give a little grace to people until we know more? If you thought she was mistaken, ask questions to clarify. When you immediately disdain and call people out, you do a disservice to your denomination, and to Christians in general. We may follow Christ, but we don't have his ability to know everything about everyone. Don't you think we should seek the truth with his love and graciousness?

Grams is trying to make us believe that the Catholic Church in 1988 only celebrated Mass in LATIN. That is a DEAD giveaway that she is either LYING or that she belonged to some renegade pseudo-Catholic faction and NOT the Catholic Church.

The fact that neither she nor her parents ever owned or read a Bible is on THEM - not the Church.
As I stated before - my 91 year-old mother and HER parents were avid Bible readers and taught US to read it as well, so this nonsense of it being a "different time" back then is rubbish.

People are so willing to blame everybody ELSE but themselves for the decisions they make.

 

[BreadOfLife]

If they were believers then why weren't they in the kingdom to begin with?

Matt 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Jhn 3:3 Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."

What kind of question is that??
Followers of Christ on earth are NOT in the Kingdom of Heaven. They're on EARTH.

John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

2 Cor. 5:8
Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

 

[Heb 13:8]

What kind of question is that??
Followers of Christ on earth are NOT in the Kingdom of Heaven. They're on EARTH.

John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

2 Cor. 5:8
Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Ok, so believers are sealed with air, Eph 1:13-14??

The Holy Spirit and His anointing comes from the Kingdom of Heaven, does it not?