1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured "Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Faith" - Has 500 Years Taught Us Nothing?

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Phoneman777, Nov 2, 2018.

  1. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,010
    Likes Received:
    643
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I responded in #733.
     
  2. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,996
    Likes Received:
    335
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Yes, you did write some words but none of it makes sense. I will try to decipher it the best I can and here is my best guess:

    Your theory is that Revelations 18:4 is referring to The Catholic Church even though (also according to your theory) there was no Catholic Church at the time Revelations 18:4 was written? Does that mean Revelations 18:4 is talking about a "future" Catholic Church?

    You also said that you "...do not presume to judge the ratio of saints:sinners in Babylon (The Catholic Church), but I would presume it to be low." So I ask you Phoneman: Who decides which members of The Church are "saints" and which ones are "sinners"? You? A body of chosen elders? How is that decided by man? You have already presumed it would be low sooooo you must have some insight on HOW to judge and decide? And you have already decided that anyone that follows or preaches the teachings of the Catholic Church are part of the antichrist soooo obviously man can figure these things out soooooo PLEASE don't tell me God decides who the saints and sinners are because YOU have already decideded.

    You then make it clear that any denominational Church that have a unbiblical aspect assigned to them by Rome are part of this Babylon church. Sooooo based on your theory no one can believe anything that The Catholic Church teaches and if they do they are part of the antiChrist church. Who does that leave as 'true followers of Christ'? You?

    Curious Mary
     
  3. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,010
    Likes Received:
    643
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Revelation 18 is depicting a three fold NWO union of "Babylon" which is the papacy, "kings of the Earth" which are the leaders in cahoots with her, and the "merchants of the Earth" which are the economic elite. Of course this union did not exist in John's day.
    That's the easiest question I've had all day: "Here is the patience of the saints. Here are they who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus." Revelation 14:12
    ....and that's the stupidest thing I've heard all day...The Bible is clear that God has His people in Babylon (Revelation 18:4) and is calling for them to come out of Babylon before they are destroyed with it. So, do you now understand that while the Bible identifies the papacy (the union of the catholic church and the secular state) as "Babylon", it does not condemn anyone who has been deceived by Babylon's teachings, but calls for them to come out of her and follow only Christ?
    Babylon has "daughters" - apostate Protestant churches which teach an unBiblical Christ, commandments of men, and will eventually unite with the papacy in persecution of God's true faithful...of course you won't believe it - most don't want to. Because the idea of giving one's self fully, totally, 110% in surrender to Christ -- what we think, what we say, what we eat, what we drink, where we go, what forms of entertainment we imbibe, etc. -- is just too much; it is "offensive" to them, as Paul said the Cross would be, so they delude themselves with false Christs which say, "do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law", unto their own destruction.
     
    Reggie Belafonte likes this.
  4. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,996
    Likes Received:
    335
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Thank you....I don't understand a word you said but if it makes sense to you....more power to ya'.
     
  5. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,010
    Likes Received:
    643
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Here it is in plain English: God's end time church are those "which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

    The catholic church teaches commandments of men, not God. Therefore, she is an apostate church and God is calling His people out of her.
     
    Reggie Belafonte and tabletalk like this.
  6. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,996
    Likes Received:
    335
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    All Churches claim to "keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Who decides which ones are not? YOU??? o_O

    Obviously you do think it is you since you have decided that the CC does not do those things. Who gave you that authority?

    Mary
     
  7. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,010
    Likes Received:
    643
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    It's really as simple as reading the Ten Commandments and then asking "Is my church following them as written by the finger of God?" The answer is simple: the catholic church is not, as are most churches. The Bible is the test of our faith, not the word of men.
     
    Reggie Belafonte likes this.
  8. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,996
    Likes Received:
    335
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Hmmmmm.....so if a Church is following the Ten Commandments then that means they are one of Gods Churches!!! If they add anything to that they are not one of Gods Churches!!!!! Fascinating.....I have never heard that theory.

    Sooooo all the Christian Churches who follow the commandments of Jesus to “Baptize” (Matthew 28:19) or take communion in remembernce of Him (1 Corinthians 11:24) they are not one of Gods Churches??????

    Sooooo once again YOU have decided what a true church is. Who gave you this authority???

    Curious Mary
     
  9. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,391
    Likes Received:
    2,020
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    It isn't about authority for us. It is for you, because you have to justify centuries of persecution and extermination against anyone who happened along with a piece of scripture and disagree with your church. We do not need authority to judge between what is correct and what is not. Just discernment.
    No, not every church does claim that...certainly not your church. Your church even changed God's law to suit her own convenience. That also means a claim to having authority...not on our part, but on yours...I do not remember ever having been taught by any of my former priest/teachers that the church had authority to change God's own laws that were written by His own finger on stone.
    Not a theory. God Himself through the apostle John described His own church of the last days as keeping the commandments of God and having the faith and/or testimony of Jesus. Revelation 12:17 & 14:6 in direct contradistinction to those who receive the l=mark of the beast, and who therefore do not keep God's commandments.
     
    Reggie Belafonte likes this.
  10. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,996
    Likes Received:
    335
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Your killing me......You don't need authority to judge what is correct and not correct????? Isn't that what "judging" is???? o_O

    You do realize that statement makes absolutely ZERO sense and is not logical.

    What you are saying is that you and your ilk know what is correct but none of you have the authority to say it is correct even though you know it is correct and you teach that it is correct but you can't really say it is correct because NO ONE has the "authority" to say it is correct o_Oo_Oo_Oo_Oo_O

    In essence what you are saying is correct is really just your opinion. ;)

    Scripture is left to everyone's opinion.....hmmmmm....that's not what scripture says :)

    Mary
     
  11. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,996
    Likes Received:
    335
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    You are an interesting person.....

    Sooooo you get to decide what "God's law" is and if a Church that has been around for 2,000 years has changed that law. Is that your theory or did you borrow that theory from someone else???

    What a Church is has been described in Scripture. It is a hierarchal Church. Can you list the hierarchy of your Church from top to bottom?

    I know I am wasting my time expecting a logical answer but your answers are to say the least....entertaining!!

    Mary
     
  12. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,010
    Likes Received:
    643
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Marymog, is the catholic church teaching the faithful to obey the Ten Commandments as they were written by the finger of God, or does the catholic church claim the power to make up their own?
     
  13. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,391
    Likes Received:
    2,020
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    You claimed elsewhere that the Catholic church gave us the Bible. I disagree, but for the sake of argument I will go along with it in the meantime. So the Catholic church, in giving the Bible, must surely agree on where God's laws come from...God...right? So the Bible your church gave, must be the authority on what God's law is...after all, it is the word of God, right? So it isn't me, or you, or even the church who decides what God's law is...it can only be God Himself who decides such things, for His law is sacred and holy, and only the giver of that law can therefore alter or set it aside right? So why does your church, and why do you, not keep and teach that law as it was given by God on Mt Sinai? Why does your church teach another law, and obey that in direct opposition to the law given to us by God Himself?
     
  14. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,996
    Likes Received:
    335
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Yes, the CC teaches to obey the 10 Commandments.

    No, the CC does not claim the power to make up their own Commandments.

    Mary
     
  15. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,996
    Likes Received:
    335
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    If the CC (which was The Church at the time which is NOW called the CC) didn't give us the Bible, who did? If your answer is God then WHO did God give the table of contents to?

    Your question about why does my Church teach another law etc. is based on a false pretense and your twisting of reality. One could say the same thing about you and your ilk.

    Humor me....What are these laws that the CC have that you speak of?

    Mary

    Mary
     
  16. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,391
    Likes Received:
    2,020
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    Please compare the two...
    Ten-Commandments-Changed-by-Catholicism.jpg
     
  17. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,010
    Likes Received:
    643
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Specifically, I ask if the catholic church teaches the Ten Commandments as written by the finger of God and found in Exodus 20?
     
  18. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,541
    Likes Received:
    900
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Absolutely.

    As for YOUR assertion that the Catholic Church teaches a "different" set of Commandments - it's because Brakelite wallows in the same ignorance as his false prophetess founder, Ellen G. White - while YOU are comfortable wallowing in your own.

    Would either of you care to elaborate on what the "differences" are? I've pretty much heard them all.
    I will respond in kind with a Bible and linguistics lesson that will SINK your arguments . . .
     
  19. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,996
    Likes Received:
    335
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
  20. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,996
    Likes Received:
    335
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Hi Phoneman,

    You twist scripture and add words to it. NOW you are twisting and adding to your own words.

    Here is what you asked: Marymog, is the catholic church teaching the faithful to obey the Ten Commandments as they were written by the finger of God, or does the catholic church claim the power to make up their own?

    As you can plainly see you DID NOT originally mention Exodus 20 so my VERY CLEAR answer to your question stays the same: Yes, the CC teaches to obey the 10 Commandments.

    Mary
     
Loading...