If We Protestants Truly Hated Catholics...

[BreadOfLife]

Ok, so believers are sealed with air, Eph 1:13-14??

The Holy Spirit and His anointing comes from the Kingdom of Heaven, does it not?

That doesn't mean that THEY or any of US are in the kingdom of Heaven.
It means that this is where GOD is - and where we HOPE to be.

 

[Heb 13:8]

That doesn't mean that THEY or any of US are in the kingdom of Heaven.
It means that this is where GOD is - and where we HOPE to be.

It means that believers have access to the kingdom of Heaven while on earth. The sheep have access, not wolves.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Belief is dependent upon ...
Belief IN WHAT.

Believing IN Gods Power is one thing.
Believing Gods Power IS the Messiah is another thing.
Believing Gods Messiah IS call Christ is another thing.
Believing Gods Christ IS Called Jesus is another thing.
Believing Gods Power came TO Earth IN the likeness AS a man is another thing.
Believing God IS supreme power is another thing.
Believing men HAVE no power without it being given them BY God is another thing.
Believing without TRUSTING is another thing.
The List goes on...and NOT ALL Individuals have Concluded their Beliefs ARE the SAME.
So...according to you Exactly WHAT did
THEY (Matt 7:22) BELIEVE?
And...according to you Exactly What did they NOT DO, that is the Will of the Father?
(Matt 7:21)

WRONG.

You can believe ALL of it - just like the DEMONS do.
HOWEVER - if you don't surrender to Him in obedience = you cannot HOPE to be saved.

 

[BreadOfLife]

It means that believers have access to the kingdom of Heaven while on earth. The sheep have access, not wolves.

Of course we do - but we're not IN Heaven.
You keep changing the boundaries of your argument . . .

 

[epostle1]

Please, you're embarrassing yourself. I said the PAPACY - not the Catholic church - began in 538 A.D., which is did.

That's why you reject the Early Church Fathers. Martin Luther would laugh at your absurd Bible origin fantasies. Your hate cult has no credibility, neither do your false histories. Only an idiot would take you seriously after the SDA exposure on this board. You need a de-programmer and a psychologist, preferably members of the Association of Christian Therapists. The Rite of Exorcism demands a preliminary evaluation by a board certified psychiatrist. It turns out that 99% of the so called "possessed" are mentally ill. The odds are in your favor.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Of course we do - but we're not IN Heaven.
You keep changing the boundaries of your argument . . .

BOL, the one's that did not have access to the kingdom were those preaching works. Matt 7:15-23.

 

[BreadOfLife]

BOL, the one's that did not have access to the kingdom were those preaching works. Matt 7:15-23.

They weren't preaching "works".

Their whole problem was that they didn't submit to God. They were DISOBEDIENT because they didn't do HIS will - not because they didn't "do".

 

[BreadOfLife]

Please, you're embarrassing yourself. I said the PAPACY - not the Catholic church - began in 538 A.D., which is did.

Can you provide documented proof for your moronic claim because Irenaeus, who lived in the 2nd Century would have a BIG problem with that remark. You see - he wrote a document called "Against Heresies", where he LISTS all of the popes from Peter to HIS day in the 2nd century.

About sixty years later, Tertullian wrote a document called "Di Pudicitia" in which he refers to the office of the Papacy.

I EAGERLY await your documented historical evidence . . .

 

[Heb 13:8]

They weren't preaching "works".

Their whole problem was that they didn't submit to God. They were DISOBEDIENT because they didn't do HIS will - not because they didn't "do".

Submit to God as in Rom 10:9? I see works.........

Matt 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

ergazomai: I work, trade, do
Original Word: ἐργάζομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: ergazomai
Phonetic Spelling: (er-gad'-zom-ahee)
Short Definition: I work, trade, do
Definition: I work, trade, perform, do, practice, commit, acquire by labor.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Submit to God as in Rom 10:9? I see works.........

Matt 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

ergazomai: I work, trade, do
Original Word: ἐργάζομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: ergazomai
Phonetic Spelling: (er-gad'-zom-ahee)
Short Definition: I work, trade, do
Definition: I work, trade, perform, do, practice, commit, acquire by labor.

It's funny how you left OUT verse 21.
Let's see what Jesus says there - shall we??

Matt. 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who DOES THE WILL of my Father who is in heaven.

Notice how He puts Rom. 10:9 into CONTEXT??
Simply "calling" on His name ain't good enough until you DO the Father's will.

 

[Heb 13:8]

It's funny how you left OUT verse 21.
Let's see what Jesus says there - shall we??

Matt. 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who DOES THE WILL of my Father who is in heaven.

Notice how He puts Rom. 10:9 into CONTEXT??
Simply "calling" on His name ain't good enough until you DO the Father's will.

Well, is overcoming through belief in the death burial and resurrection and not of works?

1 Jhn 5:4-5 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Rev 2:26-27 To the one who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’ —just as I have received authority from my Father.

 

[bbyrd009]

The dark ages culminated when men, like you and your ilk, began to think they had the authority to properly interpret scripture throwing away 1,000+ years of a single authority.

ah, what single authority? Surely you're not trying to make Rome fit in there? Rome somehow has the authority to interpret the Bible?

I'm not sure how you would interpret "hidden from the wise" Mary, if not "your institutional leaders will not be able to read this?" anyway, but are you hearing yourself here?

I know the wolves will rush in as soon as I leave, not sparing the flock

 

[bbyrd009]

After all it was just ppl doing what ppl do......ignoring scripture. Right?

imo that was done when ppl attempted to "establish a church," but as i said i wouldn't expect you to feel any different really.
But this is the Christian pov, Mary; why do you want to be here if that is going to offend you?
i'm not interested in trying to offend you, and tbh i don't think most other Protestants are either,
but we are not ever going to accept the Whore's Interpretation Mary, so i gotta ask what being here does for you?

wadr it comes across as if you are starving for Christ but cannot get Any where you come from or something, wadr, so you come here to get some yet you want to school us about how to do it like they do it where there is none or something. And now you want to front like i have offended you, when it is you that is really offending, Mary.

So my apologies if i hurt your feelings, ok, it was not intentional, but as long as you ID as a Catholic don't expect it to stop ok.
i mean put me on ignore or something, wouldn't that be better than letting me steal your peace?

bc until you can envision forgiving the pope for his sins, Mary, you don't even know what "Christianity" means, ok?
i mean can you even contemplate doing that?
then how do you expect to agree with Protestants, who will never acknowledge or respect your usurper king?

 

[bbyrd009]

I agree that it seems to be getting worse, but which church group is not? I have found one that is "less worse", but it is also as a group, as I am able to see it, also diminishing before God. This however is admittedly my opinion. How good is my vision?

oh i guess any wholesome concept will be co-opted by wolves with an agenda eventually, so that you might shine the more in the fall imo. Of course that isn't pleasant when you are partial to the concept/gathering, but imo this is just training you to be a better Anarchist, and take the good/leave the bad?

There will surely be a remnant who feels like you do, right; the death will result in a birth iow. Or can anyway. With a slightly diff pov these become your raw material i guess. Don't Establish and you cannot be usurped.

What comes to mind is that zealous founding members make idealistic statements not realizing that they are taken as a challenge by "satan."
"Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will travel to such and such a city and spend a year there and do business and make a profit."
which i know we are not talking about a business per se (or are we), but regardless the principle is the same imo.
Good ideas can be turned to profit

 

[bbyrd009]

The dark ages culminated when men, like you and your ilk, began to think they had the authority to properly interpret scripture throwing away 1,000+ years of a single authority.

do yourself a favor and go find the true answer here Mary; what they try to teach us in school is ridiculous claptrap ok, a nine year old could refute it. Roman Pax was misery for everyone but the .1%, just like US Pax is

and i wish you the best, ok?

 

[bbyrd009]

"establish a church,"

"get us a horse" perhaps

 

[bbyrd009]

Another problem with Catholic message boards. They are either dead with disagremenr or a pep rally for the Mass.

ya, gimme more of that, right

 

[bbyrd009]

It means that believers have access to the kingdom of Heaven while on earth. The sheep have access, not wolves.

I know the wolves will rush in as soon as I leave, not sparing the flock
A man's enemies will be those of his own house
the demons believe too, and tremble

oh daughters of Jerusalem, do not find love until you are ready

 

[amadeus]

oh i guess any wholesome concept will be co-opted by wolves with an agenda eventually, so that you might shine the more in the fall imo. Of course that isn't pleasant when you are partial to the concept/gathering, but imo this is just training you to be a better Anarchist, and take the good/leave the bad?

There will surely be a remnant who feels like you do, right; the death will result in a birth iow. Or can anyway. With a slightly diff pov these become your raw material i guess. Don't Establish and you cannot be usurped.

We hear a lot from people about the many supposedly Christian denominations/churches these days, but consider: If we look to some of the initiators of some of those they really had a good thought from God to improve what the previous establishments had become. When those initiators with the good thought and their closest sincere followers died, what was left was another almost empty shell in competition with the other almost empty shells.

This scenario I have described looks like what I believe was occurring not long after the ascension of Jesus and the deaths of his closest followers. From some of these emptying shells another person really anointed by God strived to initiate or retain one more time something better. Sometimes his purpose was really not to start another regular gathering or church but simply to really restore things back to what Jesus had started. But each time when the initiator and his closest associates were gone it would repeat. Thus we have the many thousands of churches, denominations or splinters. Perhaps the truth, [all of it?] was here all of the time, but without help who could sift it out of the multitude of places where someone was saying, "...Lo, here is Christ, or there...". Which of them should we believe? For the whole loaf, none of them!

What comes to mind is that zealous founding members make idealistic statements not realizing that they are taken as a challenge by "satan."
"Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will travel to such and such a city and spend a year there and do business and make a profit."
which i know we are not talking about a business per se (or are we), but regardless the principle is the same imo.
Good ideas can be turned to profit

LOL! On many things it would seem you and I are traveling along the same road. Hopefully it is always the highway of holiness...

"And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.
And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.
No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there:
And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away." Isaiah 35:7-10

 

[bbyrd009]

Thus we have the many thousands of churches, denominations or splinters. Perhaps the truth, [all of it?] was here all of the time, but without help who could sift it out of the multitude of places saying, "...Lo, here is Christ, or there..." which of them should we believe? For the whole loaf, none of them!

yup
or at least only those that allow all of the others a place maybe.
meaning their own place, where they do not have to explain to those of other nations