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Jane_Doe22

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As ByGrace said, the forum is the place for the discussion. You have said you are very experienced in answering questions about Mormonism, as I knew you were. And yet you disregard the questions I have asked in post #30. You only tell me there are misconceptions.

Yet, you, as experienced in Mormon beliefs and doctrine, know full well the reasons why Christianity has rejected Mormonism though you do not believe they should. And do you agree that Mormonism has been rejected by Christiainty?

You will tell me, just ask a question. Ok. Why is Mormonism a cult?

Stranger

Being blunt here: are you HONESTLY interested in listening to my answers and what I believe? Or are you proselytizing?

I'm happy to answer questions that people are honestly interested in the answers. I'm NOT interested in proselytizing (either giving or receiving) or having anyone deny anyone's relationship with Christ. Yes, I am a Christians, yes Baptists are Christians, yes Methodists are Christians, yes Catholics are Christians, yes Coptics are Christians--- all Christians despite non-identical beliefs.

If proselytizing or relationship denying is your goal, let's just skip that dance.
 

Helen

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Same question I asked Stanger: are you HONESTLY interested in listening to my answers and what I believe? Or are you proselytizing?

I am asking a straight question. A Yes or No will do.
Why are you avoiding the question?
 
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Jane_Doe22

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I am asking a straight question. A Yes or No will do.
Why are you avoiding the question?
Experience has taught me there's roughly two groups of people in these type of conversation: those who ask questions because they are honestly interested in the answers, and those who aren't and instead their questions are a ploy for proselytizing. As I said, I have ZERO interest in proselytizing: receiving, giving, or having people try to inform me what they think I believe. I've been there, seen that circus way to many times, and it only leaves a horrible taste in my mouth for other people who profess Christ.

So I'm cutting to the chase here and just asking what your intentions are here. If it is proselytizing, let's skip that millionth re-run.
 
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Mayflower

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I read through the thread and haven't seen Jane pushing Mormonism at all. She has just been trying to answer the questions Stranger has been asking her. Good questions, but no one can judge her salvation. I think how she answered your questions show her salvation, but that is just me.

From what I know about Mormonism, because I almost did join a Mormon church and get baptized there, is they do not believe that Jesus is God. They only believe that He is the Son of God. To me, I believe this is what separates Mormonism from the Christian faith, because only God in the flesh, Holy Trinity not just in "essence" could die for our sins and rise again from the grave.

I believe there are some Mormons who are true believers that maybe believe in Joseph Smith, which I do not believe in, but believe in salvation as explained in God's Word.
 

Rollo Tamasi

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Experience has taught me there's roughly two groups of people in these type of conversation: those who ask questions because they are honestly interested in the answers, and those who aren't and instead their questions are a ploy for proselytizing. As I said, I have ZERO interest in proselytizing: receiving, giving, or having people try to inform me what they think I believe. I've been there, seen that circus way to many times, and it only leaves a horrible taste in my mouth for other people who profess Christ.

So I'm cutting to the chase here and just asking what your intentions are here. If it is proselytizing, let's skip that millionth re-run.
Honest question, concerning LDS practice, compared to stated Standard Works, etc materials, in regards the Sabbath Commandment.

The scripture says that the Sabbath of the LORD (JEHOVAH Elohiym) is the 7th day the sabbath of the LORD (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11, etc), and the LDS written materials agree with this, but at some point keep 'sunday', the 'first [day] of the week' instead, why? What scriptural exegesis is given for this, especially in the light of the LDS written materials, in regards the 7th day?

For instance:

The Book Of Abraham; Translated From The Papyrus, By Joseph Smith, Chapter 5:1-3: 1 And thus we will finish the heavens and the earth, and all the ahosts of them. 2 And the Gods said among themselves: On the seventh time we will end our work, which we have counseled; and we will arest on the bseventh time from all our work which we have counseled. 3 And the Gods concluded upon the seventh time, because that on the seventh time they would arest from all their bworks which they (the Gods) counseled among themselves to form; and csanctified it. And thus were their decisions at the time that they counseled among themselves to form the heavens and the earth. - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/abr/5

Notation Page for BoA; Chapter 5:2

A - TG Rest. - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/abr/5/2a

B - TG Sabbath - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/abr/5/2b

Notation Page for BoA; Chapter 5:3:

A - Ex. 20: 8 (8-11) 8 Remember the asabbath day, to keep it bholy. - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/abr/5/3a

B - Ex. 31: 15 (15-16) 15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of arest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any bwork in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Mosiah 13: 18 (16-19) 18 But the seventh day, the sabbath of the Lord thy God, thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy man-servant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/abr/5/3b

C - Mosiah 13: 19 (16-19) 19 For in asix days the Lord made heaven and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is; wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. D&C 77: 12. 12 Q. What are we to understand by the sounding of the atrumpets, mentioned in the 8th chapter of Revelation? A. We are to understand that as God bmade the world in six days, and on the seventh day he finished his work, and csanctified it, and also formed man out of the ddust of the earth, even so, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years will the Lord God esanctify the earth, and complete the salvation of man, and fjudge all things, and shall gredeem all things, except that which he hath not put into his power, when he shall have sealed all things, unto the end of all things; and the sounding of the trumpets of the seven angels are the preparing and finishing of his work, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years—the hpreparing of the way before the time of his coming. - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/abr/5/3c
My intentions are to help you know Jesus as your Lord and Savior.
 
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TheHolyBookEnds

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My intentions are you help you know Jesus as your Lord and Savior.
"Lord", you mean like someone to obey in His commandments (Acts 5:32; Exodus 20:8-11; John 14:15, Exodus 20:6; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:6-7; Revelation 22:14), rather than those who merely say, "Lord, lord" and do not those things which He commanded (Matthew 7:21-22; Luke 6:46; Matthew 25:11), and do not follow His example and walk even as He walked (Luke 4:16-19; 1 John 2:6)?

"Saviour", you mean like deliverance from transgression of God's law, which is "sin" (1 John 3:4; Matthew 1:21; Romans 7:7; Romans 8:4), wherein God would write His "my law", the very Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17; Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:8-13; 10:16; Ezekiel 36:22-29, 37:26-28; 2 Corinthians 3:3) upon the Heart made new, rather than those who reject God's commandments, and say, "we are not saved" (Jeremiah 8:20)?
 
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Rollo Tamasi

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"Lord", you mean like someone to obey in His commandments (Acts 5:32; Exodus 20:8-11; John 14:15, Exodus 20:6; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:6-7; Revelation 22:14), rather than those who merely say, "Lord, lord" and do not those things which He commanded (Matthew 7:21-22; Luke 6:46; Matthew 25:11), and do not follow His example and walk even as He walked (Luke 4:16-19; 1 John 2:6)?

"Saviour", you mean like deliverance from transgression of God's law, which is "sin" (1 John 3:4; Matthew 1:21; Romans 7:7; Romans 8:4), wherein God would write His "my law", the very Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17; Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:8-13; 10:16; Ezekiel 36:22-29, 37:26-28; 2 Corinthians 3:3) upon the Heart made new, rather than those who reject God's commandments, and say, "we are not saved" (Jeremiah 8:20)?
No
Salvation is not complicated, so don't try to make it so.
 

JesusIsFaithful

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Let's face it, we can't all be right.
If we think we are, then that's proof we're not.
So let's discuss how we feel about Jesus Christ.
That will either Bring us together or separate us.
It will show our prejudices and unwillingness to bend for fellowship's sake, or it will teach us to except each other's differences.
It will teach us what doctrines are important for salvation and which ones are only good for argument's sake.
No reason to bring up Calvin or Luther or church fathers here unless it is what caused you to be saved.
Whether you believe in being born again or not is a good subject to discuss here as I believe that would directly affect your relationship with Jesus.
Lots of room for debate and lots of room to show your Christianity to others.

So whether catholic or protestant or mormon or jehovah's witnesses or anything else, how do you feel about Jesus?

May the power of the Holy spirit keep you on track in this discussion.
Amen

I was 34 years old when I got saved
I cried out to Jesus, believing in my heart he was God, and I got saved.
My life changed and I realized it was giving my life to Jesus that would make a difference for me.
Today I pray to him daily for myself and others.
I feel safe in his presence.
I've learned that a true Christian doesn't necessarily live by a set of rules, but by his relationship with Jesus.
I know next to nothing of church fathers, but I know all about Jesus.
I know what the Bible says.
God speaks to me about it when I ask him.
All these different groups no longer mean anything to me anymore.
All that matters is Jesus.
I love Jesus.
I'm bananas about Jesus.
Glory to the Lord Jesus.
And when people put their religious rules first and never talk about their relationship with Jesus, I debate them.
Whether I convey myself well to you or not, this is how I feel and believe.

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

So whose fault is it when modern day tongue speakers are claiming another drink of the One Spirit by which they had gained that tongue without interpretation by?

Same goes for doing the works of catholicism as if that is a work of grace to obtain salvation by as the Mass carries out the work of redemption.

When any one or any church defers from the testimony we all are supposed to share; then they are preaching another calling and another gospel.

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Seems like in these latter days, everybody is pointing somewhere else rather than the Son for life with God the Father.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Keeping our eyes on the Son all the time is the narrow way in following Him since the Bridegroom is coming soon anyway.
 

Helen

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Experience has taught me there's roughly two groups of people in these type of conversation: those who ask questions because they are honestly interested in the answers, and those who aren't and instead their questions are a ploy for proselytizing. As I said, I have ZERO interest in proselytizing: receiving, giving, or having people try to inform me what they think I believe. I've been there, seen that circus way to many times, and it only leaves a horrible taste in my mouth for other people who profess Christ.

So I'm cutting to the chase here and just asking what your intentions are here. If it is proselytizing, let's skip that millionth re-run.

Okay thank you. That all I needed.

Your NON-ANSWER was the answer I expected. ...that iswhat I thought,
and that is all I wanted to know.
 
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Rollo Tamasi

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"Salvation", you keep using that word, but what definition are you using for it?
Salvation is a clear definition of the Gospel.
It is the Good News of Jesus Christ who died for our sins and rose from the dead.
The promise is that he will do the same for us who put our trust in him, who show him that we love him and want to be with him forever.
Salvation is best defined as;
1.Justification
2.Sanctification
3. Glorification.
 

Helen

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Yes, that was clear enough.
You got that one well. :)
 

Nancy

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Being born into a Christian Family?????????? It can be Great, and It can be Destructive. My Wife came from a family of believers, everyone believed her brother was called to be a pastor, after loosing his first son, all he did was drink himself to death! My Wife's sister had her time sowing her wild Oat's, then became the Extreme Judge, If she thought you were out of Line, She would Interrogate you, and she was relentless! still is! Her Parent's were soft, kind Heart-ed, and over protective, I must admit I Love them.

I have had the pleasure of knowing a few families that were very close, with their Faith being the mortar, they were Great Folk's!
I think we just had to live as we were, so that when the Divine Appointment occurred, we knew to grab a hold, I know that I was drawn, and likewise so were you, as there are many out there that recognized the Love that the Spirit presented to US! I will never forget that Day!

Yes indeed Truth-agreed. I suppose I should have said a True Christian family...I have known one or two kids of pastors that totally sowed their wild oats and totally hated anything Christian, Luthern Church and both from the same family. Who knows what went on in their home. :(
 

Stranger

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Being blunt here: are you HONESTLY interested in listening to my answers and what I believe? Or are you proselytizing?

I'm happy to answer questions that people are honestly interested in the answers. I'm NOT interested in proselytizing (either giving or receiving) or having anyone deny anyone's relationship with Christ. Yes, I am a Christians, yes Baptists are Christians, yes Methodists are Christians, yes Catholics are Christians, yes Coptics are Christians--- all Christians despite non-identical beliefs.

If proselytizing or relationship denying is your goal, let's just skip that dance.

Yes, I am honestly interested in your answers and what you believe. But you know that Christianity has rejected Mormonism as Christian and has labeled it as an occult. I believe you are informed and can answer the 'why' to that, which I have asked.

I believe that if you are true to your intentions, that you will recognize this problem and seek to explain why you consider yourself a Christian, when Christianity does not.

No, I am not proselytizing. I am defending. You already know the Gospel but are aligned with a sect that has been labeled a cult in Christianity.

I am not a good dancer. And you are not forthcoming in the questions asked, though you continually say 'ask me'.

Stranger
 
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Stranger

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I read through the thread and haven't seen Jane pushing Mormonism at all. She has just been trying to answer the questions Stranger has been asking her. Good questions, but no one can judge her salvation. I think how she answered your questions show her salvation, but that is just me.

From what I know about Mormonism, because I almost did join a Mormon church and get baptized there, is they do not believe that Jesus is God. They only believe that He is the Son of God. To me, I believe this is what separates Mormonism from the Christian faith, because only God in the flesh, Holy Trinity not just in "essence" could die for our sins and rise again from the grave.

I believe there are some Mormons who are true believers that maybe believe in Joseph Smith, which I do not believe in, but believe in salvation as explained in God's Word.

Just keep in mind, Jane by her own admission knows the doctrine of Mormonism and is still a Mormon. And Jane is being deceptive in answering questions.

And, keep in mind that Christianity has rejected Mormonism as part of Christianity and has labeled it an occult. Thus if this is an error on Christianity's part, then she must present the reasons for this label and show how they are not true. For her to say, just ask me questions, shows she is hoping you don't know certain things and will not ask.

Are there Mormons who are Christians? Very well could be. But they would not be as informed in Mormon doctrine as Jane is. And, as they learned more of the Mormon doctrine, they would leave.

Stranger
 
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