Another attempt at pushing reincarnation. Do you even know why that belief exists in Eastern religions?
do you - if not it is because a caste system and karma exist - twinc
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Another attempt at pushing reincarnation. Do you even know why that belief exists in Eastern religions?
that is exactly the problem too many believing what they like and in what others like imho - twinc
Perhaps you are correct, and there is no real way we can know, exactly, if aborted babies go to heaven.
But in exact manner, there is no real way you can have any real way of knowing if they are re-born.
So. If we are not going to speculate, biblically or otherwise, what is the point of this thread?
Time to be straight up with ourselves if we are ever going to come to a knowledge of truth. So I have a question.
What is it that actually is supposed to go to heaven? You all say the baby, but is it?
"Good question.Good question.
In my mind ( because of David's prayer) I presumed the 'baby' dies soon after birth. Never once did I consider that he could have been a toddler or child.
So in your post are you looking for the SOUL of the baby actually is what is safe with God at death?
Our own souls mature as we walk with God...maybe in glory the baby souls mature to the age of 30. Not sure where I heard it...but it seems that 30 is the age of maturity ( Jesus ministry starts) so maybe we all end up at what would appear to be 30 years of age.
For some reason most painting show angels at roughly age 30.
Yes, there is a "real way" and that is Scripture itself. There is absolutely no question that Christ died for the sins of the whole world -- all of humanity. Just as Adam's disobedience brought sin and death upon the human race, Christ's perfect obedience and perfect sacrifice for our redemption paid the sin debt of all humanity in full.Perhaps you are correct, and there is no real way we can know, exactly, if aborted babies go to heaven.
They do not need to be re-born as we know the New Birth. God will surely give them the gift of the Holy Spirit by His grace. After all eternal life is indeed God's gift to those who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. But in the cases I have listed, that condition does not apply.But in exact manner, there is no real way you can have any real way of knowing if they are re-born.
Who says speculation is required. Here are the words of Christ:But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. (Mt 19:14).So. If we are not going to speculate, biblically or otherwise, what is the point of this thread?
Good question.
In my mind ( because of David's prayer) I presumed the 'baby' dies soon after birth. Never once did I consider that he could have been a toddler or child.
So in your post are you looking for the SOUL of the baby actually is what is safe with God at death?
Our own souls mature as we walk with God...maybe in glory the baby souls mature to the age of 30. Not sure where I heard it...but it seems that 30 is the age of maturity ( Jesus ministry starts) so maybe we all end up at what would appear to be 30 years of age.
For some reason most painting show angels at roughly age 30.
Yes, there is a "real way" and that is Scripture itself. There is absolutely no question that Christ died for the sins of the whole world -- all of humanity. Just as Adam's disobedience brought sin and death upon the human race, Christ's perfect obedience and perfect sacrifice for our redemption paid the sin debt of all humanity in full.
Now since aborted babies, infants, young children, and those who are unable to comprehend the Gospel because of mental deficiency cannot possibly obey the Gospel, God has already made provision for their salvation in Christ. God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. This does not translate into Universalism, since all those who can comprehend the Gospel (including young people) must obey the Gospel.
They do not need to be re-born as we know the New Birth. God will surely give them the gift of the Holy Spirit by His grace. After all eternal life is indeed God's gift to those who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. But in the cases I have listed, that condition does not apply.
Who says speculation is required. Here are the words of Christ:But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. (Mt 19:14).
Yes, there is a "real way" and that is Scripture itself. There is absolutely no question that Christ died for the sins of the whole world -- all of humanity. Just as Adam's disobedience brought sin and death upon the human race, Christ's perfect obedience and perfect sacrifice for our redemption paid the sin debt of all humanity in full.
Now since aborted babies, infants, young children, and those who are unable to comprehend the Gospel because of mental deficiency cannot possibly obey the Gospel, God has already made provision for their salvation in Christ. God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. This does not translate into Universalism, since all those who can comprehend the Gospel (including young people) must obey the Gospel.
They do not need to be re-born as we know the New Birth. God will surely give them the gift of the Holy Spirit by His grace. After all eternal life is indeed God's gift to those who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. But in the cases I have listed, that condition does not apply.
Who says speculation is required. Here are the words of Christ:But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. (Mt 19:14).
Actually there is it’s called the scriptures. What do the scriptures say in these regards, well first of all they say that flesh and blood shall not inherit the kingdom of heaven (i.e. the spiritual phase of the kingdom). They inform us that only those who have been baptized into Christ death have experience a change of nature from the earthly to the spiritual, that only such (if proven faithful unto death) will have a share in the Lord’s kingdom (once again the heavenly phase). And how is this accomplished? That’s right by fully consecrating ourselves to the Lord, something which requires the intellectual consent of the individual.
Can an aborted fetus or a baby do this? Heavens no!
But what is to become of all these lost ones? Well first of all they are not actually lost at all; Christ came into this world to save that which is lost. They like all mankind are part of Adam’s progeny and are therefore covered under the ransom for all. They do not go to heaven, having never been begotten of the spirit, but instead will experience the “common salvation” Jude 3 and general resurrection with the rest of mankind. There they too will develop and grow in the knowledge of the truth and will be given every help and necessity needed to traverse the highway of holiness and be brought back to the original human perfection which was lost by father Adam.
Although some may see it as a crime that many such little ones were deprived of life (and it was indeed a crime, a sin which will need to be atoned for by those responsible) nevertheless it was also a blessing, how so you say?
Well for one they will be resurrected in the kingdom of righteousness, having never had to experience any of this present evil world, yes there will still be evil, sin and death during the 1000 year reign of our Lord, but nevertheless righteousness will predominate whereas now even though there is some good in this world evil predominates. Remember it is not until the end of that age that all sin and evil will be eradicated, the last enemy to be destroyed being death.
It is necessary that there still be evil during the time in which these little ones are in development even as it was for us, for it is only through observation and experience that we have learned the exceedingly sinfulness of sin and evil. In the kingdom mankind will learn the opposite, righteousness and with a full knowledge and experience with both of these (something father Adam lacked prior to his fall) they will be in a better condition to choose right over wrong, to choose righteousness and live.
AgreedI feel you sort of missed my point here. I was not really commenting on whether or not I believe the bible says we can know where those souls go (hence my word "perhaps"). My point was that twinc summarily dismissed the verses and ideas of others to that effect, when the idea he was positing had no more weight or merit. Less I would say, biblically. So I was wondering, if he was't going to let the bible have a say in the matter, or even actively engage in conversation with the ideas of others instead of just dismissing them instantly, why did he even start the thread?
Twinc has been around forums for many years [more than 10 to my knowledge]. He has not really changed and it is hard to understand what he is which is a mixed version of old Catholicism and some other things. I am still learning about him and he as you may have noticed is at times quite cryptic. He is also in his late 80's so that is something to put in the package. Our friend @"ByGrace" probably knows him better than anyone else on this forum... and she has some blind spots with him as well. If you are able to really discuss something about his beliefs with him as in a two way conversation, be very surprised.I feel you sort of missed my point here. I was not really commenting on whether or not I believe the bible says we can know where those souls go (hence my word "perhaps"). My point was that twinc summarily dismissed the verses and ideas of others to that effect, when the idea he was positing had no more weight or merit. Less I would say, biblically. So I was wondering, if he was't going to let the bible have a say in the matter, or even actively engage in conversation with the ideas of others instead of just dismissing them instantly, why did he even start the thread?
To say that baby's go to Heaven sounds great, but that not the truth sadly, I am sure that they don't go to hell.
No, I remember you approving/liking a previous post of mine that showed from creation that a person is a living soul. He/she is flesh plus spirit (breath and life force that originates from God) equals a living soul. When the body dies the breath/life force returns to God and the soul ceases to be...until the resurrection when the life is restored to the body. The spirit has no personality of its own, nor the means to express that personality if it had. It is time to be honest with the scriptures, concerning what they actually teach, and to stop with the conjecture and ignorant platitudes we offer bereaving people when their loved ones die. Lies like "I am sure he is smiling down on us now" and such like, are nonsense and entirely unbiblical. Soul sleep, for want of a better expression, is real, and calling it 'heresy' that so many do is simply a devilish spiritualism, and was never a part of Jewish. or Christian teaching until the apostasy of Rome introduced Platonic philosophy.Good question.
In my mind ( because of David's prayer) I presumed the 'baby' dies soon after birth. Never once did I consider that he could have been a toddler or child.
So in your post are you looking for the SOUL of the baby actually is what is safe with God at death?
Our own souls mature as we walk with God...maybe in glory the baby souls mature to the age of 30. Not sure where I heard it...but it seems that 30 is the age of maturity ( Jesus ministry starts) so maybe we all end up at what would appear to be 30 years of age.
For some reason most painting show angels at roughly age 30.
Where does scripture suggest that when a human dies (or is murdered in this case) their soul is ‘born again’?Is it possible that an aborted soul is born again - twinc
It would be nice if we were actually able to declare things with such positivity. But, we can't. We can't even find in Scripture that an airplane can fly.... but it does.Where does scripture suggest that when a human dies (or is murdered in this case) their soul is ‘born again’?
I can’t find it in scripture so....No, it’s not possible.
My two cents worth....Mary