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Featured Abortion ?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by twinc, Aug 8, 2018.

  1. twinc

    twinc Well-Known Member

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    do you - if not it is because a caste system and karma exist - twinc
     
  2. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    Time to be straight up with ourselves if we are ever going to come to a knowledge of truth. So I have a question.
    What is it that actually is supposed to go to heaven? You all say the baby, but is it?
     
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  3. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps you are correct, and there is no real way we can know, exactly, if aborted babies go to heaven.
    But in exact manner, there is no real way you can have any real way of knowing if they are re-born.
    So. If we are not going to speculate, biblically or otherwise, what is the point of this thread?
     
  4. Harvest 1874

    Harvest 1874 Well-Known Member

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    Actually there is it’s called the scriptures. What do the scriptures say in these regards, well first of all they say that flesh and blood shall not inherit the kingdom of heaven (i.e. the spiritual phase of the kingdom). They inform us that only those who have been baptized into Christ death have experience a change of nature from the earthly to the spiritual, that only such (if proven faithful unto death) will have a share in the Lord’s kingdom (once again the heavenly phase). And how is this accomplished? That’s right by fully consecrating ourselves to the Lord, something which requires the intellectual consent of the individual.

    Can an aborted fetus or a baby do this? Heavens no!

    But what is to become of all these lost ones? Well first of all they are not actually lost at all; Christ came into this world to save that which is lost. They like all mankind are part of Adam’s progeny and are therefore covered under the ransom for all. They do not go to heaven, having never been begotten of the spirit, but instead will experience the “common salvationJude 3 and general resurrection with the rest of mankind. There they too will develop and grow in the knowledge of the truth and will be given every help and necessity needed to traverse the highway of holiness and be brought back to the original human perfection which was lost by father Adam.

    Although some may see it as a crime that many such little ones were deprived of life (and it was indeed a crime, a sin which will need to be atoned for by those responsible) nevertheless it was also a blessing, how so you say?

    Well for one they will be resurrected in the kingdom of righteousness, having never had to experience any of this present evil world, yes there will still be evil, sin and death during the 1000 year reign of our Lord, but nevertheless righteousness will predominate whereas now even though there is some good in this world evil predominates. Remember it is not until the end of that age that all sin and evil will be eradicated, the last enemy to be destroyed being death.

    It is necessary that there still be evil during the time in which these little ones are in development even as it was for us, for it is only through observation and experience that we have learned the exceedingly sinfulness of sin and evil. In the kingdom mankind will learn the opposite, righteousness and with a full knowledge and experience with both of these (something father Adam lacked prior to his fall) they will be in a better condition to choose right over wrong, to choose righteousness and live.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  5. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    More children have been killed through 'legal' abortion in America than all the people killed in ww1 .

    Do we think God does not see us sacrificing our children to the gods of money and convienience?

    Woe to western 'civilization' . its judgement is at hand..
     
  6. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Good question.
    In my mind ( because of David's prayer) I presumed the 'baby' dies soon after birth. Never once did I consider that he could have been a toddler or child.

    So in your post are you looking for the SOUL of the baby actually is what is safe with God at death?
    Our own souls mature as we walk with God...maybe in glory the baby souls mature to the age of 30. Not sure where I heard it...but it seems that 30 is the age of maturity ( Jesus ministry starts) so maybe we all end up at what would appear to be 30 years of age.
    For some reason most painting show angels at roughly age 30.
     
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  7. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    "Good question.
    In my mind ( because of David's prayer) I presumed the 'baby' dies soon after birth. Never once did I consider that he could have been a toddler or child." I always assumed his baby died as an infant...dunno why I thought that either..
     
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  8. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, there is a "real way" and that is Scripture itself. There is absolutely no question that Christ died for the sins of the whole world -- all of humanity. Just as Adam's disobedience brought sin and death upon the human race, Christ's perfect obedience and perfect sacrifice for our redemption paid the sin debt of all humanity in full.

    Now since aborted babies, infants, young children, and those who are unable to comprehend the Gospel because of mental deficiency cannot possibly obey the Gospel, God has already made provision for their salvation in Christ. God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. This does not translate into Universalism, since all those who can comprehend the Gospel (including young people) must obey the Gospel.
    They do not need to be re-born as we know the New Birth. God will surely give them the gift of the Holy Spirit by His grace. After all eternal life is indeed God's gift to those who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. But in the cases I have listed, that condition does not apply.
    Who says speculation is required. Here are the words of Christ:But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. (Mt 19:14).
     
  9. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Imho, God created these aborted babies for life, they never got that chance as the mother took that decision from them. I cannot believe God would not have the last WORD as He is the one who gives life and He takes life on this earth as He sees fit, not us. SO, I hardly think He would let that child simply "burn in Hell" forever because the child had no choice in their demise.
     
  10. Harvest 1874

    Harvest 1874 Well-Known Member

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    A soul is a combination of an organism and the breath of life, when a person dies the breath of life returns to its source, and the organism returns to the dust from which it came, and the soul or being ceases to exist.

    And so it is written, the first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.” 1 Cor 15:45

    This scripture clearly states that the first man WAS MADE or BECAME a living soul; there is no mention of a soul being placed into the man.

    When a man dies, the process is reversed. Gen 2:7 describes the beginning of human life by saying that the Lord God “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man BECAME a living soul.”

    Psa 146:4 describes the termination of a man's life: “His breath goes forth; he returns to his earth. In that very day his thoughts perish.” It is just the reverse. We know the soul is not immortal because the Bible plainly states, “the soul, that sins, it shall die” (Ezek 18:4, 20) Thus when a man dies, “in that very day, his thoughts perish.” He (the soul or being) is really, dead. God said to Adam, “Thou shall surely die.” It was Satan, the father of lies, who first suggested that man has an immortal soul when he said, “Thou shall not surely die.”

    This should be a settled matter for anyone advanced beyond the milk of the word, if you haven’t learned this lesson by now then as the Apostles states you need someone to teach you again the first principles (or elementary truths) of the doctrines of God so that you may become “establish in the truth” in the basics, before advancing to the meat of the word.
     
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  11. Harvest 1874

    Harvest 1874 Well-Known Member

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    Naomi states: in regards to infants, “there is no real way you can have any real way of knowing if they are re-born”.

    Enoch111’s reply: They do not need to be re-born as we know the New Birth. God will surely give them the gift of the Holy Spirit by His grace. After all eternal life is indeed God's gift to those who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. But in the cases I have listed, that condition does not apply.

    Our Reply, Those who have not been begotten again in this age who have not experience a change of nature will in the next age be resurrected once again as human beings, this includes all those aborted, babies and young children.

    These will be brought to the knowledge of the truth and assisted up the highway of holiness that they might obtain that perfection, human perfection which was lost in father Adam. This will be their judgement day, their trial period to prove whether they are worthy of everlasting life. At that time the Lord will pour out his spirit on all flesh (Joel 2:28).

    “There will be no difference between the spirit received by the church in this Gospel age and by the human family in general in the next age: it is the same spirit; and it will be received in the same way, from the same source (God), and through the same channel — his Word of truth.

    Naomi states: So, If we are not going to speculate, biblically or otherwise, what is the point of this thread?

    Enoch111’s reply: Who says speculation is required. Here are the words of Christ: But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. (Mt 19:14).

    In Reply, many mistakenly read into this statement that which it does not intend. The Lord was not saying that the kingdom of heaven was going to be filled with little children in fact there never has been nor will there ever be children in heaven.

    Children are a part of the human process of propagating the species, they’re not meant to remain children forever but to grow up to full adulthood, and so too with regards to those who will be a part of the kingdom of God, they will all be adults, whether in the earthly phase of the kingdom or the heavenly. Yes there will be children in the earthly phase during the millennial reign, but they will grow to full adulthood (roughly 30 years of age) before they reach a full resurrection to human perfection. There will not be any children in the ages to come as that part of the divine plan, to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth will have ceased.

    When the Lord here in this text says suffer not the little children to come unto me for of such is the kingdom of heaven he was in essence saying that unless you (whatever your age) come to be as one of these little children come to me, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven. A little child is not filled with all kinds of preconceived ideas as most adults are, but empty and in humility and meekness comes to his father in full trust that he will both protect and lead him.

    A childlike faith is the very first step of God's requirement for entering his kingdom – coming to Jesus. This simple gospel is just what a child needs. His childlike faith is ready to trust and believe one so kind and loving. His humility has no difficulty in confessing the need of help. And nothing appears more simple and natural than to follow and obey this loving savior. But above all the child at once grasps what older people often fail to apprehend; faith and salvation center in a living person, in Jesus, and not in a religious system.

    "Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as (or like) this little child; the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoso shall receive one such little child (any such humble soul) in my name receives me" (Matt. 18:4, 5).
     
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  12. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    I feel you sort of missed my point here. I was not really commenting on whether or not I believe the bible says we can know where those souls go (hence my word "perhaps"). My point was that twinc summarily dismissed the verses and ideas of others to that effect, when the idea he was positing had no more weight or merit. Less I would say, biblically. So I was wondering, if he was't going to let the bible have a say in the matter, or even actively engage in conversation with the ideas of others instead of just dismissing them instantly, why did he even start the thread?
     
  13. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    Again, I believe you missed my point...please see my post above to Enoch111.
     
  14. Harvest 1874

    Harvest 1874 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed
     
  15. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Twinc has been around forums for many years [more than 10 to my knowledge]. He has not really changed and it is hard to understand what he is which is a mixed version of old Catholicism and some other things. I am still learning about him and he as you may have noticed is at times quite cryptic. He is also in his late 80's so that is something to put in the package. Our friend @"ByGrace" probably knows him better than anyone else on this forum... and she has some blind spots with him as well. If you are able to really discuss something about his beliefs with him as in a two way conversation, be very surprised.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2018
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  16. Reggie Belafonte

    Reggie Belafonte Well-Known Member

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    To say that baby's go to Heaven sounds great, but that not the truth sadly, I am sure that they don't go to hell.

    What a great thing to be told when one aborts, oh baby goes to Heaven, oh no !
    It makes such easy for sure, but abortion is Sin and everyone know it is and to abort a healthy child is a curse.

    It's trendy now to have an abortion is like gay pride, such is a people destined to hell fire for worshiping the works of Satan and they will reap what they sow, as will all who go along with it all.
     
  17. Triumph1300

    Triumph1300 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, so you say no heaven, no hell for aborted babies.
    So, what's up with THAT statement.
    Can you clarify ??

    WHERE do they go according to you?
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2018
  18. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    No, I remember you approving/liking a previous post of mine that showed from creation that a person is a living soul. He/she is flesh plus spirit (breath and life force that originates from God) equals a living soul. When the body dies the breath/life force returns to God and the soul ceases to be...until the resurrection when the life is restored to the body. The spirit has no personality of its own, nor the means to express that personality if it had. It is time to be honest with the scriptures, concerning what they actually teach, and to stop with the conjecture and ignorant platitudes we offer bereaving people when their loved ones die. Lies like "I am sure he is smiling down on us now" and such like, are nonsense and entirely unbiblical. Soul sleep, for want of a better expression, is real, and calling it 'heresy' that so many do is simply a devilish spiritualism, and was never a part of Jewish. or Christian teaching until the apostasy of Rome introduced Platonic philosophy.
     
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  19. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    Where does scripture suggest that when a human dies (or is murdered in this case) their soul is ‘born again’?

    I can’t find it in scripture so....No, it’s not possible.

    My two cents worth....Mary
     
  20. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    It would be nice if we were actually able to declare things with such positivity. But, we can't. We can't even find in Scripture that an airplane can fly.... but it does.
    We don't like to admit it, but in the case of MANY things, all we can do is say that we really don't know.... no matter how strongly we BELIEVE something.
     
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