If a judge ordered me to "restore" to you the $100 that I stole from your wallet - and I only gave you a dollar - would you call that "restoration"? But, you insist that "Israel has been restored" though it is but a tiny 1/100th of its ancient size.
Well, them borders better hurry up and get established, because when Jesus comes back the entire planet is going to end up nothing but a burned up, desolate hunk of rock - for 1,000 years - after which God will make "a new heaven and a new Earth".
It's not necessary to give a reference every time - technology has moved us past the tediousness of flipping pages in a Concordance.
If I ignore a verse, it is usually because the one posting it is deflecting away from the previous point I made.
For instance, this whole "cite the chapter and verse, please" thing seems to be a deflection from my previous point: that it doesn't make sense to claim Paul pronounced both "peace and mercy" but also "wrath...to the uttermost" and "unworthiness of eternal life" on what you claim is the SAME group of people - literal Israelites.
I don't attributing Israel being "spiritually reborn" to anything you said, but if so, I meant "rebirth in 1949".
Yes, Israel exists today - as "Spiritual Israel" which belongs to Christ, in accordance with Galatians 3:29.
I don't rant. I repeat solid exegesis in the face of ludicrousness, such as "'Abraham's seed' of Galatians 3:29 doesn't refer to Israel." Good grief, if "Israel" is not "Abraham's seed", then who is?
You claim that Paul pronounced both "peace and mercy" and also "wrath...to the uttermost" and "unworthiness of eternal life" which caused Paul and the Christians to "turn to the Gentiles" - on the same group of people...on the same group of people? Blessing and cursing on the same group of people? This is a prime example of the level of inconsistency must be incorporated into your points in order to establish your position.
The promises of God are "yea and amen" in Christ Jesus (2 Corinthians 1:20 KJV). You have to be in Christ Jesus in order to be "heirs according to the promise" (Galatians 3:29).
You claimed that verses should be viewed beside other verses, but you stubbornly refuse to view Jeremiah 16:14-16 alongside Jeremiah 29:10-14, which completely obliterates your claim that God didn't require repentance before Israel's return from the Babylonian captivity:
10 "For thus saith the LORD, That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place.
11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.
12 Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.
13 And ye shall seek me, and find [me], when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
14 And I will be found of you, saith the LORD: and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations, and from all the places whither I have driven you, saith the LORD; and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive.
And Jesus chose 12 disciples, there are 12 gates in New Jerusalem, 12 foundation stones, etc. There are many examples of God making transcendental application of the characteristics of Literal Israel to Spiritual Israel - the church. To ignore this is to too rigidly interpret Scripture.
By your own definition Israel was never restored then, when they returned from the Babylonian captivity. Only a small fraction of people returned. The borders will be established at the beginning of the millennium. The point is, Israel is always a nation of God even though she has never realized the borders that God set. Which in turn means that Israel is a nation now of God even though she is not experiencing the correct borders.
It's not hard. The Jews who Paul claimed 'wrath to the uttermost' (1Thess 2:16), and 'unworthiness of eternal life' (Acts 13:46), are not the same Jews who are the 'Israel of God' (Gal. 6:16). Just like I showed you in (Acts 13:43). The vast majority of Jews rejected the Gospel. They are not the Israel of God. The minority of Jews that received Christ, are the Israel of God; the remnant at this time, (Rom. 11:4-5) "....Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace." God has preserved a remnant of believing Jews at this time that are part of the Church. This does not make the Church 'spiritual Israel'. It makes the remnant part of the Church, but still the Israel of God.
(Gal. 3:29) says nothing about the Church being 'spiritual Israel'. It says nothing about Abrahams seed being Israel. It says, "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." In other words, all who are in Christ are Abrahams seed. See (Gal. 3:26-28). Just like prior to the Church, not everyone in Israel was Abraham's seed. Only those who had the faith of Abraham. (Rom. 4:12)
Again, which you ignored, (Jer. 16:14-16) and (Jer. 29:10-14) are not speaking of the same return. (Jer. 16) speaks to the Jews being literally hunted down and dragged back. (Jer. 29) speaks to the return after the 70 year captivity. And even in the return there, it is God first who moves before there is any movement of so called repentance from Israel. (Jer. 29:10-14) "For thus saith the LORD,...I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place....Then shall ye call upon me...ye shall seek me....And I will be found of you...and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations...." Even in Israel's so called repentance in returning, it is due only to God turning to them first. It is God bringing them back to the land because it is time.
The Church is not 'spiritual Israel'. There is nothing to indicate it is. It is the product of unbelief, to doubt that God will be true to Israel as He promised. For the promises of God to the physical nation of Israel were everlasting and eternal. If He is not true to those, how do you know your eternity is secure. You don't. Which is why those who believe as you are always found in the camp of those also who believe you can lose your salvation. One feeds the other.
And you failed to comment on my last paragraph in post #198 concerning how God controls all nations even though they reject Him. (Is. 10:5-7), (Deut. 32:8) Why?
Stranger
Last edited: