Jesus and Commands

[1stCenturyLady]

These verses don't disprove Jesus was the God of the OT.

Are you making a general statement or implying I don't believe Jesus is the God of the Old Testament? What I said, was the Ten Commandments are attributed to the Father of the "Father" person of the Trinity. You believe in the Trinity don't you? I did as an Adventist. That hasn't changed has it, though I remember not knowing Jesus was God until years after I left the Adventist denomination at 23 years of age.

That is a denial of Hebrews 4:9-10, which says if we've entered into Jesus' rest, we'll rest from our work "as God did from His". Which day did God rest on? The Seventh day Sabbath. What you're saying is that if we're resting in Jesus, we are to disregard resting as God rested.
Yes, it means to become clay in the potter's hands, trusting in Him to do with us as He deems fit, plain and simple. The Potter says, "rest as I rested on the seventh day". Now, are we going to say to the Potter, "How sayest Thou to us that we should rest?"

At least you were brave enough to say what you believe, unlike the other gentleman.

"again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,”

It is not the 7th day Sabbath that is entering into God's rest, but those who believe. vs. 3 "For we who have believed do enter that rest." Believe in What, or I should say Whom? Believe in the Ten Commandments or believe in Jesus?

We are to enter into eternity that begins the moment we are saved. Ethernity/Eternal Life is God's rest, not a day of the week. And eternity is represented by the 8th day of creation, which is also the first day of the normal week, and that is the real reason Christians from Pentecost on kept Sunday as a celebration of the resurrection of Jesus for believers, of which we are partakers. Not as a law, but by the Spirit.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The philosophy of Liberalism at it's core is "the freedom to self govern" which is equated with "liberty". Make no mistake...self-government is not an option. We are either a slave to God or to sin (Romans 6:16). I think that you have mistaken a lateral standard for a "higher standard". The Ten Commandments are the standard by which we are judged in the Judgment, for any sin we can commit comes under one of the Ten, including lust, hate, envy, etc.

Freedom to self-govern? Is that what you think the Law of Liberty is or that I believe? I've never said anything like that. The liberty in the Law of Liberty is freedom/liberation from SIN. We are no longer slaves to sin to fulfill its lusts. The Bible is quite clear about that. Haven't you ever read that before?

Sorry, lust, hate, jealousy, envy are not covered under the Ten Commandments, but by Jesus, Himself, and not until He came. Only the SPIRIT can control these traits, not the bottom line of murder, adultery, stealing and lying. Matthew 5 shows Jesus comparing His commandments to the Fathers commandments. Jesus' commandments go deeper and are meat, not milk. If you do not hate (meat) you will never murder (milk). Any unbeliever can control themselves to not murder. You don't need the Spirit for that. But the heart and nature is different. The Father's commandments were just to guard us UNTIL Christ.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Let's examine Colossians 2:15-16 from a contextual standpoint:

• "Let no man therefore judge you in meat (MOSAIC ceremonial law - meat offerings),
• or in drink (MOSAIC ceremonial law - drink offerings),
• or in respect of an holyday (MOSAIC ceremonial law - yearly feast day),
• or of the new moon (MOSAIC ceremonial law - reference for establishing the numeric day of the month upon which yearly feasts fell),
• or of the sabbath days (MOSAIC ceremonial law - yearly holy convocation "sabbath" rest days - ie. first day and seventh day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread):
• which are shadows of things to come (MOSAIC ceremonial law - contained "shadows" which pointed forward to Jesus), but the body is of Christ".

Leviticus is clear there were "sabbaths" associated with certain yearly feasts that are "beside the Sabbath of the Lord" (Leviticus 23:38) and these elements of the Mosaic Law were "shadows of things to come".

The Sabbath of the Ten Commandments is a memorial to that which is already past - the created power of God in the beginning.

Therefore, the context of these two verses are clearly the Mosaic Law, not the Moral Law God wrote in stone, and your pattern is not a descending "year/month/week", but an alternating "year/month/year", according to Leviticus.

As I said, the Sabbath is the first holy convocation listed in Leviticus 23.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Can we really legitimately cite any ones writings in order to defend our preconceived opinions? Even if Barnabus was an apostle, and accurately related the practice of the church, the question still remains... On whose authority was the change made from the 7th Sabbath to either any other day, our no day at all. We all know when God established the 7th day as a holy day. How do we know? Because we have many instances of a "thus saith the Lord" to absolutely verify that the 7th day is indeed holy, sanctified, and set apart as a day of rest. What we do NOT have is any such verification for the holiness and sacredness of the 7th day being removed. Apart from the church's ssy so. Sorry, but that is unsatisfactory, and falls way short of what is needed to disembowel the ten commandments by removing the only commandment which authorititively identifies the God we worship, and why.

Are we under the Old Covenant or the New Covenant?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Can we really legitimately cite any ones writings in order to defend our preconceived opinions? Even if Barnabus was an apostle, and accurately related the practice of the church, the question still remains... On whose authority was the change made from the 7th Sabbath to either any other day, our no day at all. We all know when God established the 7th day as a holy day. How do we know? Because we have many instances of a "thus saith the Lord" to absolutely verify that the 7th day is indeed holy, sanctified, and set apart as a day of rest. What we do NOT have is any such verification for the holiness and sacredness of the 7th day being removed. Apart from the church's ssy so. Sorry, but that is unsatisfactory, and falls way short of what is needed to disembowel the ten commandments by removing the only commandment which authorititively identifies the God we worship, and why.

Let me ask you something. Hebrews 4 talks of entering into God's rest. Do you honestly believe that God's rest is the 7th day Sabbath, or something else?

 

[Heb 13:8]

when they're not convinced of what?

In the death, burial and resurrection.

 

[quietthinker]

Sin started on earth in the Garden of Eden, and all heirs of Adam inherited a sin nature. While man still had that sin nature God instituted His laws to guard them UNTIL the sin nature could be taken away by Christ. The laws were holy, but the nature trying to keep them wasn't, and as Romans 7 shows, the sin nature caused a battle between the mind and the will BEFORE Christ could cure that problem. (Many theologians foolishly use Romans 7 out of context and try to say that is depicting the life of a Christian. I see that same exegesis ignorance shown over and over again on the forums as well.)

I'm wondering if Jesus has cured the battle between your mind and your will 1stCenturyLady ?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I'm wondering if Jesus has cured the battle between your mind and your will 1stCenturyLady ?

Yes.

How about you?

 

[quietthinker]

Yes.

How about you?

I need to be constantly mindful and instant in prayer, even in my sleep. Lust, greed, pride and generally self are constantly wanting to assert themselves. If its not from one angle its from another.

However, there is the assurance of James 4:7 'Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.'
I have found this to be the case.

It's a moment by moment walk staying connected to the vine.

Romans 8:1 'There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.'

I find Romans 7 to be my experience.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I need to be constantly mindful and instant in prayer, even in my sleep. Lust, greed, pride and generally self are constantly wanting to assert themselves. If its not from one angle its from another.

However, there is the assurance of James 4:7 'Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.'
I have found this to be the case.

It's a moment by moment walk staying connected to the vine.

Romans 8:1 'There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.'

I find Romans 7 to be my experience.

But Romans 7 is about those BEFORE Christ who were still only under the law. So which is it? Romans 7, or Romans 8 Before or after Christ. Have you ever been baptized in the Holy Spirit?

P.S. I was in Cairns one Christmas. Are you close?

 

[BobRyan]

"My law" is the eternal law of God - the Royal version. The Ten Commandments ....

Jesus is asked "which commandments?" -- and the lists some of them in Matthew 19... almost all of which came from the TEN relating to "Love your neighbor as yourself". But He did not include the ones related to "Love God with all your heart" in Matt 19 so then nothing about "do not take God's name in vain". Paul also quotes from the TEN Commandments in Romans 13 dealing with "Love your neighbor as yourself".

And as James 2 points out "Do not murder" is one of them
As Eph 6:2 points out - the fifth commandment is the "first" commandment in that still valid unit of TEN - with a promise.

 

[BobRyan]

But Romans 7 is about those BEFORE Christ who were still only under the law.

That is an interesting example of "creative writing" -- are you interested in actually studying Roman 7??

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Jesus is asked "which commandments?" -- and the lists some of them in Matthew 19... almost all of which came from the TEN relating to "Love your neighbor as yourself". But He did not include the ones related to "Love God with all your heart" in Matt 19 so then nothing about "do not take God's name in vain". Paul also quotes from the TEN Commandments in Romans 13 dealing with "Love your neighbor as yourself".

And as James 2 points out "Do not murder" is one of them
As Eph 6:2 points out - the fifth commandment is the "first" commandment in that still valid unit of TEN - with a promise.

What is the royal law?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

That is an interesting example of "creative writing" -- are you interested in actually studying Roman 7??

Have you? Read it in context. Romans 7:7 to 8:9 Are you accusing Paul of creative writing just because you don't understand his point?

 

[BobRyan]

Can we really legitimately cite any ones writings in order to defend our preconceived opinions? Even if Barnabus was an apostle, and accurately related the practice of the church, the question still remains... On whose authority was the change made from the 7th Sabbath to either any other day, our no day at all. We all know when God established the 7th day as a holy day. How do we know? Because we have many instances of a "thus saith the Lord" to absolutely verify that the 7th day is indeed holy, sanctified, and set apart as a day of rest. What we do NOT have is any such verification for the holiness and sacredness of the 7th day being removed. Apart from the church's ssy so. Sorry, but that is unsatisfactory, and falls way short of what is needed to disembowel the ten commandments by removing the only commandment which authorititively identifies the God we worship, and why.

True. However it appears that the fake document from the 16th century attributed to Barnabus -- is more fake than fact. Mere pseudepigrapha

 

[BobRyan]

"My law" is the eternal law of God - the Royal version. The Ten Commandments ....

Jesus is asked "which commandments?" -- and the lists some of them in Matthew 19... almost all of which came from the TEN relating to "Love your neighbor as yourself". But He did not include the ones related to "Love God with all your heart" in Matt 19 so then nothing about "do not take God's name in vain". Paul also quotes from the TEN Commandments in Romans 13 dealing with "Love your neighbor as yourself".

And as James 2 points out "Do not murder" is one of them
As Eph 6:2 points out - the fifth commandment is the "first" commandment in that still valid unit of TEN - with a promise.

What is the royal law?

The LAW "God Spoke" according to James 2. The "Law of Liberty" and of course Christ said that ALL of scripture "the LAW and the Prophets" are founded on the Mosaic Law "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 and the Law of Moses in Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself"

(founded on.. not "deleted by")

James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” (Lev 19:18) you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
That is an interesting example of "creative writing" -- are you interested in actually studying Roman 7??

Have you? Read it in context. Romans 7:7 to 8:9

Romans 7 - includes more than one verse in 7:7. There is an entire chapter there ... maybe you would be interested in a thread on Romans 7

 

[1stCenturyLady]

True. However it appears that the fake document from the 16th century attributed to Barnabus -- is more fake than fact. Mere pseudepigrapha

16th century? ROFL Are you referring to when it was written, or when Tischendorf found it? Because it was not written in the 16th century, but the 1st. And Tischendorf didn't discover it until 1844 in the Codex Sinaiticus. So exactly how did a document written in the 16th century become part of a document written in the 4th?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

BobRyan said: ↑
That is an interesting example of "creative writing" -- are you interested in actually studying Roman 7??



Romans 7 - includes more than one verse in 7:7. There is an entire chapter there ... maybe you would be interested in a thread on Romans 7

I said, FROM 7:7 TO 8:9 more than 20 verses.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Jesus is asked "which commandments?" -- and the lists some of them in Matthew 19... almost all of which came from the TEN relating to "Love your neighbor as yourself". But He did not include the ones related to "Love God with all your heart" in Matt 19 so then nothing about "do not take God's name in vain". Paul also quotes from the TEN Commandments in Romans 13 dealing with "Love your neighbor as yourself".

And as James 2 points out "Do not murder" is one of them
As Eph 6:2 points out - the fifth commandment is the "first" commandment in that still valid unit of TEN - with a promise.



The LAW "God Spoke" according to James 2. The "Law of Liberty" and of course Christ said that ALL of scripture "the LAW and the Prophets" are founded on the Mosaic Law "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 and the Law of Moses in Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself"

(founded on.. not "deleted by")

James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” (Lev 19:18) you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

Good. Then you will realize that "love God with all your heart, mind and strength, and your neighbor as yourself"are the laws - the ETERNAL laws - written on the heart.