propitiation by His blood, through faith

[Helen]

True. Scripture reveals that there are several kinds of faith:
1. Mental asset (in those who do not obey the Gospel)
2. Saving faith (in those who obey the Gospel)
3. The measure of faith (to all believers)
4. The spiritual gift of faith (to some believers)

If saving faith were a gift of God, then it would be given to ALL HUMANITY, because God wants all men to be saved. The gift is salvation (eternal life) to those who believe. And after that there is a spiritual gift of faith to some (since all spiritual gifts are not given uniformly to all).

Sorry I can't agree with this.
In my bible Romans 12 3 says
" For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."

The only other faith is the Gift of faith.

"For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: "

Some may have more faith, small faith, great faith, etc...
Other than that...I don't agree with your list. Sorry.

 

[Harvest 1874]

Almost sounds as though you WANT these people in hell?? And, your sentence makes no sense.

Sorry my sister, but did you read Post # 284 I believe it’s self-explanatory. There’s no suggestion of anyone going to the “Hell” as taught by the creeds when they die, but rather the true “Hell” of the bible, Sheol, the grave or pit. Nor are those who go there to remain forever, for the Lord has promised a resurrection from the grave of both the just (those justified now) and of the un-just (those to be justified in the next age).

As for my statement viz. “You say"? So are you now more just than God?

It was in response to what you said when you stated: I say babies, and certain others, by the awesome grace and mercy of God Almighty, are saved.

This makes it appear as though you are not satisfied with God’s declaration that all fall short of the glory of God, that there is none righteous, no not one, that you imagine that some, in this instance babies and those incapable of thinking for themselves because of their situation are acceptable anyway.

Although it is a nice sentiment and very gracious of you to give these poor souls a free pass, the scriptures to the contrary imply that no one will be saved out of ignorance, but rather that God will have “all men (babies included) to come to the knowledge of the truth”, so that each might chose for themselves whether or not to believe and to live in accordance with the kingdom of God.

These little ones will be resurrected in the next age and as such will grow and mature, and learning of the truth they will be able to decide for themselves as to whether they will chose life and live.

Please understand this is not meant as any criticism it is merely to help you to understand God’s plan includes everyone, he is well aware of the fact that many have died outside of the knowledge of Christ and as such has made ample provision for these in the next age.

 

[Nancy]

Sorry my sister, but did you read Post # 284 I believe it’s self-explanatory. There’s no suggestion of anyone going to the “Hell” as taught by the creeds when they die, but rather the true “Hell” of the bible, Sheol, the grave or pit. Nor are those who go there to remain forever, for the Lord has promised a resurrection from the grave of both the just (those justified now) and of the un-just (those to be justified in the next age).

As for my statement viz. “You say"? So are you now more just than God?

It was in response to what you said when you stated: I say babies, and certain others, by the awesome grace and mercy of God Almighty, are saved.

This makes it appear as though you are not satisfied with God’s declaration that all fall short of the glory of God, that there is none righteous, no not one, that you imagine that some, in this instance babies and those incapable of thinking for themselves because of their situation are acceptable anyway.

Although it is a nice sentiment and very gracious of you to give these poor souls a free pass, the scriptures to the contrary imply that no one will be saved out of ignorance, but rather that God will have “all men (babies included) to come to the knowledge of the truth”, so that each might chose for themselves whether or not to believe and to live in accordance with the kingdom of God.

These little ones will be resurrected in the next age and as such will grow and mature, and learning of the truth they will be able to decide for themselves as to whether they will chose life and live.

Please understand this is not meant as any criticism it is merely to help you to understand God’s plan includes everyone, he is well aware of the fact that many have died outside of the knowledge of Christ and as such has made ample provision for these in the next age.

"These little ones will be resurrected in the next age and as such will grow and mature, and learning of the truth they will be able to decide for themselves as to whether they will chose life and live."
Are you talking about the 1000 year reign of Christ on the new earth here, as being the next age?

 

[justbyfaith]

Yeah, that sounds like reincarnation to me...see Hebrews 9:27!

 

[Nancy]

“I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.” (Romans 12:1–3)

I.e., Paul is speaking to believers.

Okay, yes he is speaking to believers. But then, Ephesians 2:8 tells me "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God...
And, "faith comes by hearing the Word of God."

 

[Nancy]

Yeah, that sounds like reincarnation to me...see Hebrews 9:27!

Whoa! It sure does

 

[Harvest 1874]

"These little ones will be resurrected in the next age and as such will grow and mature, and learning of the truth they will be able to decide for themselves as to whether they will chose life and live."
Are you talking about the 1000 year reign of Christ on the new earth here, as being the next age?

Yes that is correct.

 

[Dave L]

Okay, yes he is speaking to believers. But then, Ephesians 2:8 tells me "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God...
And, "faith comes by hearing the Word of God."

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:14)

 

[bbyrd009]

Please identify the attribute most likely to produce faith.

hearing

 

[Nancy]

Yes that is correct.

That sounds promising, but I am not familiar with scripture saying this. And, I'm sure it is complicated to explain through script. if having to do with eschatology. But, if you have some script. I could check it out...It would be nice to know this is true. Thanks!

 

[bbyrd009]

it is death, more abundantly

"You say"? So are you now more just than God?

the age of accountability is not called the age of accountability for nothing Harvest

 

[Dave L]

hearing

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:14)

 

[bbyrd009]

Almost sounds as though you WANT these people in hell?

the Hegelian dialectic demands a place for losers, so that winners can be immortal and go to Valhalla see.

 

[bbyrd009]

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:14)

so then a division is created in our minds here where there is no division imo. Bc if the natural man cannot hear, then it follows that in order to be considered accepted i must somehow justify myself as a spiritual man, right. i have to think of myself as Superior, in order to say that i have accomplished this hearing, or i have to be superior in order to do it, right, iow i cannot be a natural man and also hear, supposedly

so iow you have stopped eating, no longer have any urges or desires, don't sleep, the whole banana, Dave?

 

[Dave L]

so then a division is created in our minds here where there is no division, only tares. Bc if the natural man cannot hear, then it follows that in order to be considered accepted i must somehow justify myself as a spiritual man, right. i have to think of myself as Superior, in order to say that i have accomplished this hearing, or i have to be superior in order to do it, right, iow i cannot be a natural man and also hear, supposedly

“Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.” (John 3:7)

 

[bbyrd009]

“Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.” (John 3:7)

marvel not then that men will bend over backwards to posture themselves as being "saved" and "born again" after a little public profession, completely negating the hope of salvation that they should be cultivating instead

these will then go on to advertise the judgement of beliefs that they cannot Quote, and deny the judgement of works that they can Quote, along with various other fallings into ditches that the blind are subject to, a belief in death more abundantly and selective immortality, etc; for themselves of course. Tomorrow too, don't forget it all starts someday right, any day other than today

They will even postulate various imaginings as Doctrines and say they got them from Scripture; Trinity, Total Depravity, and other satanic devices to enthrall others, and good luck getting them to even acknowledge the Scripture that makes them liars and fools

and denying their birthright, bah, that is in there for "lost" people right
lol

 

[Helen]

hearing

Yes totally AGREE here!!

 

[bbyrd009]

so then a division is created in our minds here where there is no division imo. Bc if the natural man cannot hear, then it follows that in order to be considered accepted i must somehow justify myself as a spiritual man, right. i have to think of myself as Superior, in order to say that i have accomplished this hearing, or i have to be superior in order to do it, right, iow i cannot be a natural man and also hear, supposedly

so iow you have stopped eating, no longer have any urges or desires, don't sleep, the whole banana, Dave?

^
logic is brutal, huh

 

[Dave L]

marvel not then that men will bend over backwards to posture themselves as being "saved" and "born again" after a little public profession, completely negating the hope of salvation that they should be cultivating instead

these will then go on to advertise the judgement of beliefs that they cannot Quote, and deny the judgement of works that they can Quote, along with various other fallings into ditches that the blind are subject to, a belief in death more abundantly and selective immortality, etc; for themselves of course. Tomorrow too, don't forget it all starts someday right, any day other than today

They will even postulate various imaginings as Doctrines and say they got them from Scripture; Trinity, Total Depravity, and other satanic devices to enthrall others, and good luck getting them to even acknowledge the Scripture that makes them liars and fools

and denying their birthright, bah, that is in there for "lost" people right
lol

If God saves a person it is grace. If you think God enables people to save themselves through obedience, it is works.

 

[LC627]

If God saves a person it is grace. If you think God enables people to save themselves through obedience, it is works.

I like the way R.C. Sproul put it when it comes to free will (AKA people choosing on their own ability) "It involves choice without desire. That is like having an effect without a cause. It is something from nothing which is irrational..."

Romans 8:7 clearly states the mind of the flesh is enemy against God and can't submit to God.

"To say that God's sovereignty is limited by man's freedom is to make man sovereign" -Sproul.