Calvinism?

[Mjh29]

Actually we must blame Augustine for this nonsense. He had many good things to say, but he also misinterpreted Scripture. In the end every Christian has a duty and obligation to carefully examine the doctrines of men in the light of Scripture. Sadly, dyed-in-the-wool Calvinists refuse to do so, and distort the plain meaning of many verses and passages, so that they can hang on to this False Gospel.

Why preach the Gospel if the outcome has already been predetermined by God? That is the position of Hyper-Calvinists, who are at least consistent with their beliefs.

The problem here is that we refuse to understand and accept that God is wiser than man. Just because you see inconsistency doesn't mean that there is inconsistency. The real problem here is not your refusal to accept that God is all powerful, it is your refusal to believe that you are powerless. Jesus came to seek and save, not seek and make saveable. We have Arminius to thank for this view of synergism, as it was he and pelagius who spread this heresy in the first place. I can understand it being hard to give up any power you thought you had, but it is necessary to understand that we, as men, have no power. Just because we cant understand something doesn't make it untrue!!

Why preach the Gospel?

1.) Christ told us to do so. No matter what, this is enough of a reason for me. Even if our evangelism does nothing, Christ told us to do something, so we ought to do it!
2.) This shows a lack of understanding the power of God. Maybe He chooses to use you to reach one of His chosen! What a glorious work! This also relieves the pressure on yourself... your performance in evangelism means nothing. We water, but God brings the increase of faith.

Man choosing ultimately retracts from God's glory. if man has something to add to His Salvation, or if it is simply making the 'right choice', then that hardly brings God glory; He didn't save you; without your permission it was impossible. No, He instead sits back, ringing his hands and hoping that maybe you will let Him save you.

Why preach the Gospel? Allow me to retort with this: If man chooses God, why pray for the lost souls of loved ones? If it is their choice, why ask God to do something you say He can't do?

 

[Helen]

People kept telling me how bad Calvin was, so I bought his book and have been going through it. What I saw was a lot different than what I heard from others. I wanted to study his writings for myself and not what some person told me about him.

Very true...and many many others who were such leaders as him.

 

[Enoch111]

I can understand it being hard to give up any power you thought you had, but it is necessary to understand that we, as men, have no power.

Calvinists see this as a "power struggle". But the Bible makes it perfectly clear that sinners must respond to, and obey the Gospel (called "the obedience of faith"). God does not do that for men, and that is the fallacy of Calvinism (along with many others).

Now please note, study, and meditate on this passage, and give up your false notions about a power struggle. The power and the commandment belongs to God, but the obedience of faith belongs to sinners.

ROMANS 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: 27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

 

[Episkopos]

Calvinists see this as a "power struggle". But the Bible makes it perfectly clear that sinners must respond to, and obey the Gospel (called "the obedience of faith"). God does not do that for men, and that is the fallacy of Calvinism (along with many others).

Now please note, study, and meditate on this passage, and give up your false notions about a power struggle. The power and the commandment belongs to God, but the obedience of faith belongs to sinners.

ROMANS 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: 27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

As long as you understand that obedience to the faith is required of they who have had the revelation of the mystery.

 

[Nancy]

Actually we must blame Augustine for this nonsense. He had many good things to say, but he also misinterpreted Scripture. In the end every Christian has a duty and obligation to carefully examine the doctrines of men in the light of Scripture. Sadly, dyed-in-the-wool Calvinists refuse to do so, and distort the plain meaning of many verses and passages, so that they can hang on to this False Gospel.

Why preach the Gospel if the outcome has already been predetermined by God? That is the position of Hyper-Calvinists, who are at least consistent with their beliefs.

"Why preach the Gospel if the outcome has already been predetermined by God?" When I ask them this question, they usually will answer something like "because God said to".

"That is the position of Hyper-Calvinists, who are at least consistent with their beliefs" Then you have the ones who do not OPENLY preach on it and most of the congregation have no idea what their true doctrine is. They sneak things in here and there, and from my experience, they are subtle.

 

[Enoch111]

As long as you understand that obedience to the faith is required of they who have had the revelation of the mystery.

We don't need to go all Gnostic in this matter. Just be careful that the mysteries don't enamor you.

 

[LC627]

"Why preach the Gospel if the outcome has already been predetermined by God?" When I ask them this question, they usually will answer something like "because God said to".

Sister Nancy!
We preach the Gospel because that is the avenue in which God calls the elect.
Acts 13:48 - And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed

 

[Nancy]

...and the "ordained" would be those who accepted Christ. God's awesome grace through faith! Amen! Is that not GOOD news?

 

[LC627]

...and the "ordained" would be those who accepted Christ. God's awesome grace through faith! Amen! Is that not GOOD news?

Man does not / can’t ordain himself, in sin we all pursue sin; not righteousness. It’s a choice without desire. This is the work of God. “He choose us”

Jesus says all that the Father gives to Him will come...not....all who gives themselves to Me will come.

 

[Jun2u]

Jesus says all that the Father gives to Him will come...not....all who gives themselves to Me will come.

If I might add, according to Romans 3 “there is NONE that seeks after God.” People can believe, confess, and except Jesus and say it all day 100 times, and they will NOT come one iota closer to God!!!

The ONLY WAY an individual can become saved is IF the Father draws him! John 6:44.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Episkopos]

We don't need to go all Gnostic in this matter. Just be careful that the mysteries don't enamor you.

To whom much is given, more is required.


Is that so unreasonable?

 

[Nancy]

If I might add, according to Romans 3 “there is NONE that seeks after God.” People can believe, confess, and except Jesus and say it all day 100 times, and they will NOT come one iota closer to God!!!

The ONLY WAY an individual can become saved is IF the Father draws him! John 6:44.


To God Be The Glory

“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto Me” (John 12:32).

 

[bbyrd009]

We preach the Gospel because that is the avenue in which God calls the elect.

wadr "preach" is the word that has been supplied to you, and a few much better terms fit in there

Jesus says all that the Father gives to Him will come...not....all who gives themselves to Me will come.

whosoever will may come, not sure what this does to your theory, and imo don't get distracted by the dialectic nature of the writing, otherwise you will reach false conclusions. Pretty sure i could make a case for "all who gives themselves to Me will come"

 

[bbyrd009]

First you must cross the Sea of Reeds, the Yam Suph
and then both perspectives will no longer contrast with each other i guess
until then all we can do is argue about it

 

[LC627]

If I might add, according to Romans 3 “there is NONE that seeks after God.” People can believe, confess, and except Jesus and say it all day 100 times, and they will NOT come one iota closer to God!!!

The ONLY WAY an individual can become saved is IF the Father draws him! John 6:44.

To God Be The Glory

Romans 8:7 - The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.

 

[LC627]

wadr "preach" is the word that has been supplied to you, and a few much better terms fit in there
whosoever will may come, not sure what this does to your theory, and imo don't get distracted by the dialectic nature of the writing, otherwise you will reach false conclusions. Pretty sure i could make a case for "all who gives themselves to Me will come"

Mankind seeks after all kinds of false gods and evil; everything but the true God. No one is righteous. All fall short. Man can't create the conviction of repentance within himself in his own dead state.

 

[Mjh29]

Calvinists see this as a "power struggle". But the Bible makes it perfectly clear that sinners must respond to, and obey the Gospel (called "the obedience of faith"). God does not do that for men, and that is the fallacy of Calvinism (along with many others).

Now please note, study, and meditate on this passage, and give up your false notions about a power struggle. The power and the commandment belongs to God, but the obedience of faith belongs to sinners.

ROMANS 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: 27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

And then later on in the book, as well as earlier, if we keep reading, we see that man indeed cannot obey unless God makes Him willing. You didn't answer my question about If we choose God, why pray for the lost souls of loved ones? Nor did your answer here disprove the fact that Arminians want to be able to claim they did something.. that in the end, they made the right call, and that is why they are going to heaven... on the merit of a correct choice. This is not and never has been the gospel. Read the Whole BOOK of Romans, and you will see that the message you try to project onto it really isnt there at all. In Romans 9, Paul dealt with the real issue we are talking about, and having already torn to shreds this fallicy of self-salvation by means of a proper choice.

I have noted, studied and meditated on the whole book, brother, and have still found that your system of thinking and scriptural interpretation does not parallel what Paul or the Whole of Scripture teaches.

I will await your answer to my question.

 

[bbyrd009]

Mankind seeks after all kinds of false gods and evil; everything but the true God. No one is righteous. All fall short. Man can't create the conviction of repentance within himself in his own dead state.

i am not meaning to imply that he could, if he has no conscience, or iow his conscience is "seared."
but wadr you change your mind all by yourself, and you seek your own salvation, too,
which is why all will be judged for their works

and you might note that you even have Calvinists/Catholics agreeing with you, take that however you will

 

[bbyrd009]

Arminians want to be able to claim they did something.. that in the end, they made the right call, and that is why they are going to heaven... on the merit of a correct choice. This is not and never has been the gospel.

amen, no one is going anywhere, except on tares, like an acid trip or something.
Arminians aren't going anywhere either

 

[bbyrd009]

Why preach the Gospel? Allow me to retort with this: If man chooses God, why pray for the lost souls of loved ones? If it is their choice, why ask God to do something you say He can't do?

whosoever will may come is then made moot, and imo there's about half of the Bible just waiting for you wadr