The Problem With The Trinity

[gadar perets]

Unfortunately, @gadar is correct. Even unsaved men know some spiritual truths, but that doesn’t mean they are saved nor can they know all truths.

To God Be The Glory

Thanks for being honest about me being correct. Some people on this forum are so against my beliefs, that even when I am correct they tell me I'm wrong. Oy vey!.

So tell me Jun2u, what makes me "unsaved"? I have received Messiah Yeshua as my Lord and Saviour over 32 years ago. I keep his commandments as best I can and live my life in accordance with his will and his Father's will. I was baptized in his true name. What am I lacking?
Please provide a verse that says I am unsaved.

 

[gadar perets]

Actually they do.

Please cite those verses and what the subject is.

When we break a commandment, it is because we have taken back our surrender to the Lord for a moment, so that He is no longer living His life in us and through us.

The same holds true for breaking the Sabbath, trampling annual holy days and eating unclean meat.

See Galatians 5:14 and Romans 5:5.

What do those verses have to do with Acts 15? If your interpretation of Galatians 5:14 is correct, then why were the four OT commandments of Acts 15 imposed on Gentiles? Shouldn't the apostles have just taught them to love their neighbors?

Our obedience isn't about meticulously observing a set of do's and don'ts any longer. It is about letting God's love be alive in us and living according to it because we have been redeemed through faith alone in Jesus Christ (the Messiah).

God's love leads us to obey His commandments. That is one of the functions of the Holy Spirit under the New Covenant (to cause us to obey)(Ezekiel 36:26-27).

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.​

 

[gadar perets]

One scripture, and the context of one s cripture, does not give a man clear sight. You need other scriptures too, to see clearly.

In Colossians 2 we are told, don t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, ( he was speaking to us gentiles) or for not celebrating certain days or sabbaths, because these rules are only shadows of the reality to come, and Christ himself is that reality. So don't let anyone condemn you by their insistence on pious self denial. Their sinful minds have made them proud and they are not connected to Christ. You have died with Christ and He has set you free from the spiritual powers/ principles of this world. So why do you keep on following the rules of this world such as- don't handle! Don't taste! Don't touch! Such rules are mere human teachings about things that deteriorate as we use them. These rules may seem wise because they require strong devotion, pious self-denial, and severe bodily discipline. But they provide no help in conquering a person's evil desires.

No wonder you do not understand that passage. You use the bogus NLT paraphrase rather than a word for word translation of the Greek. The KJV comes close, but they make the same mistake by adding the word "is" which changes the meaning.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. KJV
​

Paul wrote this long after the cross and yet, he spoke of them as unfulfilled shadows in his day. The reality IS NOT CHRIST. Messiah Yeshua was the reality of animal sacrifices. Some holy days have a specific reality that is yet to come in our future.

 

[bbyrd009]

If the verse is translated correctly, it only applies to boiling a baby goat in it's mother's milk and not to eating any animal while consuming any milk.

if the v is translated correctly you are no longer talking about animals at all gadar, a kid goat is someone and mother's milk is something else, i don't even have to tell you what they are almost, see

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You totally miss that the entire passage describes you - condemning men for what they eat or drink and for not celebrating certain days or sabbaths.

You completely miss that the apostle says the men who do this are not connected to Christ.

 

[bbyrd009]

What verse are you referring to? As far as I know, they were forbidden from eating pork because pigs were not created to be eaten. They are in the same category as slugs, millipedes, dogs, etc. They are not food.

if you don't want to eat pork then don't imo, you can interpret in saying this Jesus made all foods clean for yourself i guess
Mark 7:19 Lexicon: because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?" (Thus He declared all foods clean.)

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Ty for that vs bbyrd. I had not remembered it. Gm btw

 

[stunnedbygrace]

On wait, yes I had looked at that vs. That's a lexicon. Th though, again.

 

[bbyrd009]

Tsk! You don't bow to Saturn! Is that what is in a mans heart?

so we get a pass bc ignorance, i agree. it's not like i'm going to stop calling it Saturday around believers or anything to force the point, but the point is that the name of the day was changed bc we prefer to Saturnalia on Sabbath-day than Sabbath, and after all there is that pesky Commandment about Sabbath that everyone would be reminded of every time they said "Sabbath" or "Shabbat" on the way to their Saturnalias.

So don't get me wrong here, changing what day you take off of work is not going to change your heart, i agree, but changing your heart (mind) might cause a shift in the other direction. Keep doing what seems right to you, and just start calling it Sabbath-day again and see what happens iow at least be genuine

Is that the intent of his heart and mind?

his intent is revealed when he condemns others for different beliefs, not when he says Saturday or ignores Commandments, i guess. Iow i really have no issues until the same guy assures me like he knows that all Wiccans are going to hell or whatever, or everyone who eats pork is going to be judged under Ancient Israeli Civil Law, etc. Iow they always seem to go together

 

[bbyrd009]

that their are still laws to break, including the Sabbath and dietary laws.

i don't see any dietary laws in the Decalogue, and i have my own set of national laws based upon the Decalogue that are relevant to me, so when you say i must follow some "law" that is not in the Decalogue you have no legs to stand on wadr.

The law now is if it would offend you and i know that i shouldn't eat it around you, but otherwise there is no law, and we have passages for all this already NT, a puzzle is being made where there is no puzzle imo

 

[bbyrd009]

Then you are teaching us that Yeshua taught contrary to what his Father taught in Leviticus 11.

Leviticus 11 was given in the dispensation of Law for a nation that no longer exists gadar, that it could even be said went through all that for an example to us. God divorced those people for a reason, that reason i guess. Joshua's teaching seems contrary to Father's to you for a good reason, ok, check your premises imo

 

[bbyrd009]

It is not a sin to celebrate the resurrection of our Lord on Easter Sunday; while it may indeed be a sin to observe the pagan elements that have come to be in the holiday.

Religions seek to be more inclusive, @lforrest mentioned this yesterday, and they do it by compromising spiritual principles, just like we do with our kids. So there is a time for that i guess, and i never meant to imply that Easter was evil per se, so much as Easter is an indicator of where one is spiritually.

The whole Christian world goes to "church" now on "Easter" Sunday; how can that be a bad thing?
But since Easter is not in a Bible anywhere, i think i'll stick with Passover, bc Christ is my Passover,
and not presume to be saying what are sins and what are not, bc i don't know, a sin for me might not be a sin for you

 

[gadar perets]

if the v is translated correctly you are no longer talking about animals at all gadar, a kid goat is someone and mother's milk is something else, i don't even have to tell you what they are almost, see

???

 

[gadar perets]

You totally miss that the entire passage describes you - condemning men for what they eat or drink and for not celebrating certain days or sabbaths.

You completely miss that the apostle says the men who do this are not connected to Christ.

You completely missed Paul's message, not me. Those that were judging (not "condemning") the Colossians were people that did NOT belong to the Body of Messiah. They were judging the Colossians as to what they were eating and drinking and as to how they were keeping the Sabbath and holy days. Yes, the Colossians were Sabbath and feast keepers. Paul told the Colossians not to allow anyone outside the Body of Messiah to judge them concerning those things. I am not someone who is outside the Body of Messiah, although that is what you would like to think. I MUST judge righteously regarding these things so the brethren do not continue in sin (1 Corinthians 5:12-13; Galatians 6:1).

Of course, you miss all that by not checking the Greek and by using false translations done by men who do not keep YHWH's holy days.

 

[gadar perets]

if you don't want to eat pork then don't imo, you can interpret in saying this Jesus made all foods clean for yourself i guess
Mark 7:19 Lexicon: because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?" (Thus He declared all foods clean.)

If I had to interpret that phrase, that means it belongs in our Bibles. Since that phrase is not found in the Greek, I can't interpret it. I only interpret what is Scriptural.

 

[gadar perets]

if you don't want to eat pork then don't imo, you can interpret in saying this Jesus made all foods clean for yourself i guess
Mark 7:19 Lexicon: because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?" (Thus He declared all foods clean.)

Compare your link which is to the deceived NASB Lexicon with the link found here to the actual Greek. Do not make a superficial analysis of the two, but look at them carefully. One is faithful to the Greek and one is not. If you can't find the difference, I will help you later.

 

[justbyfaith]

Thanks for being honest about me being correct. Some people on this forum are so against my beliefs, that even when I am correct they tell me I'm wrong. Oy vey!.

So tell me Jun2u, what makes me "unsaved"? I have received Messiah Yeshua as my Lord and Saviour over 32 years ago. I keep his commandments as best I can and live my life in accordance with his will and his Father's will. I was baptized in his true name. What am I lacking?
Please provide a verse that says I am unsaved.

John 8:24 (in light of John 8:58 in light of John 8:59 and John 10:31-33 and Exodus 3:14).

 

[justbyfaith]

Religions seek to be more inclusive, @lforrest mentioned this yesterday, and they do it by compromising spiritual principles, just like we do with our kids. So there is a time for that i guess, and i never meant to imply that Easter was evil per se, so much as Easter is an indicator of where one is spiritually.

The whole Christian world goes to "church" now on "Easter" Sunday; how can that be a bad thing?
But since Easter is not in a Bible anywhere, i think i'll stick with Passover, bc Christ is my Passover,
and not presume to be saying what are sins and what are not, bc i don't know, a sin for me might not be a sin for you

As long as you remember that Jesus died on the Cross and is risen from the dead on Passover I don't have a problem with you. The thing is, the term Passover doesn't have that connotation; but the term Easter does. Again, the devil is seeking to destroy the celebration of Christ's resurrection on what we call Easter Sunday. And you appear to be on his side in this.

 

[justbyfaith]

We have digressed from the original topic of the thread. We would all do well to obey what the apostle Paul said in Titus 3:9.

Therefore I am not going to argue about these peripheral issue any longer (of sabbaths and food laws); and neither should any of you: for the scripture that I referenced above forbids it.

 

[Jun2u]

I misunderstood what you were trying to convey then, sorry.

Please don't apologize. It could have very well been my fault for not being articulate enough.

To God Be The Glory