The Problem With The Trinity

[justbyfaith]

No, I don't need to do all that.

Yes, you do need to do all that: otherwise you are confusing people into believing that they are somehow saved through keeping the law; which is unscriptural. And therefore you would not be in the category of liar but would be classified more accurately as a deceiver in that by your preaching you subtly imply that we must be saved through keeping the law. This is another gospel, watch out (Galatians 1:6-9)!

 

[gadar perets]

Even if there isn't, and the majority believe that there are errors therein, Exodus 23:2a justifies my position.

Here is an article about the KJV from Bible.org to consider.

 

[gadar perets]

I am a very obedient person, and I do not feel the need to deflect my responsibility to obey God.

However, I do understand that for the believer, keeping one's self from sinning is not a requirement but a privilege.

We serve and obey the Lord because we love Him for that He has redeemed us from hell. He has forgiven us completely of all of our sins and will not impute sin to us, ever (Romans 4:7-8). Because we are forgiven much, we love Him much (Luke 7:36-50, 1 John 4:19, Romans 5:5).

Our motivation for obedience, therefore, is not in that we are required to obey; and it is not even a need for the one who is redeemed. It is a desire. We are made new creatures in Christ; and therefore we want to obey the Lord in everything.

Do you see the difference?

I have said several times in various threads that love for my Heavenly Father is what motivates me to obey. I know how He feels about sin, so out of love for Him I endeavor to sin no more because I know that pleases Him. If you truly desired to obey Him you would not be fighting against His commandments.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

The Jews are under the letter of the Law.

Christians are under Grace and the Law is under Grace, so we do not have the Letter of the Law, the letter of the Law has been done away with, we are free from the letter of the Law, but the Law still stands, but it's under Grace.

So it became becomes a human understanding and compassionate not strict dictating madness of the Letter of the Law.

The Jews have Sins punished by death and there were no if's or but's in the matter.
Under Christianity you can repent of your sins, but if you don't, you are out ! one has to repent of your Sins and follow in Christ Jesus or you are out side of the Kingdom of God, you can not go against Jesus or the Law under Grace and if you do your out, if you support Sodomites your out ! such people can not enter the Kingdom of God, they do not make the grade, because they are a curse on all like a leach or a pox.
Sinful people in a Christian Nation have no rights to stand over the Law like such do nowadays claiming Marxist human rights, the rights of criminal or degenerate behaviour is not tolerated, for the good of the majority, it's like wolfs in sheep's clothing cunningly undermining the majority to tear them to threads. such have no excuse to bastardise the community peddling there AIDS etc they are just like Vampires, running loose inflicting death on all they devour.

But Christianity has lost it's been undermined and the Jews are coming back with the Letter of the Law and they will wipe out all who stand in there way, ruling with a rod of iron and no Grace and no Trinity, because they do not know God or Jesus.

 

[justbyfaith]

Here is an article about the KJV from Bible.org to consider.

It is alright, I prefer to follow the wisdom of Proverbs 19:27.

 

[justbyfaith]

I have said several times in various threads that love for my Heavenly Father is what motivates me to obey. I know how He feels about sin, so out of love for Him I endeavor to sin no more because I know that pleases Him. If you truly desired to obey Him you would not be fighting against His commandments.

I am certainly not fighting against His commandments. The love of Christ within my heart is the fulfillment of their requirement within me.

All I am saying is that no one is saved by keeping them.

Because salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ alone.

Trying to earn salvation by the works of the law is a competing method of obtaining salvation that can never be sufficient to bring real salvation to the person who attempts to enter in that way!

 

[farouk]

I am certainly not fighting against His commandments. I do my best to keep them.

All I am saying is that no one is saved by keeping them.

Because salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ alone.

Trying to earn salvation by the works of the law is a competing method of obtaining salvation that can never be sufficient to bring real salvation to the person who attempts to enter in that way!

Great post! Ephesians 2.8-9

The New Testament is full of God in Three Persons. End of Matthew 28, John's First Epistle, Romans 8, etc.: plenty of Biblical evidence for this glorious truth.

 

[gadar perets]

This is another gospel, watch out (Galatians 1:6-9)!

"For God so loved the world that He gave Himself, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life" IS another gospel, watch out. Teaching people to not sin by obeying the law out of love for our Creator is not another gospel.

 

[gadar perets]

The Jews are under the letter of the Law.

Christians are under Grace and the Law is under Grace, so we do not have the Letter of the Law, the letter of the Law has been done away with, we are free from the letter of the Law, but the Law still stands, but it's under Grace.

So it became becomes a human understanding and compassionate not strict dictating madness of the Letter of the Law.

Does "Thou shalt not commit adultery" and "Thou shalt not kill/murder" apply to you or is it OK to break the letter of those laws because you somehow keep the spirit of them?

The Jews have Sins punished by death and there were no if's or but's in the matter.
Under Christianity you can repent of your sins, but if you don't, you are out ! one has to repent of your Sins and follow in Christ Jesus or you are out side of the Kingdom of God, you can not go against Jesus or the Law under Grace and if you do your out, if you support Sodomites your out ! such people can not enter the Kingdom of God, they do not make the grade, because they are a curse on all like a leach or a pox.
Sinful people in a Christian Nation have no rights to stand over the Law like such do nowadays claiming Marxist human rights, the rights of criminal or degenerate behaviour is not tolerated, for the good of the majority, it's like wolfs in sheep's clothing cunningly undermining the majority to tear them to threads. such have no excuse to bastardise the community peddling there AIDS etc they are just like Vampires, running loose inflicting death on all they devour.

Why is sodomy a sin if there is no longer a letter of the law saying it is wrong? How can one repent of sodomy (sin) if they have been taught the letter of the law against sodomy has been done away with?

 

[gadar perets]

It is alright, I prefer to follow the wisdom of Proverbs 19:27.

The KJV reads, "Cease, my son, to hear the instruction that causeth to err from the words of knowledge."

The NKJV reads, "Cease listening to instruction, my son, and you will stray from the words of knowledge."

The ASV that you linked to reads, "Cease, my son, to hear instruction [Only] to err from the words of knowledge. "

Which one is correct? The KJV adds the word "the" which is not in the Hebrew text, but it doesn't put it in italics for some reason. It also adds the words "that causeth". The NKJV rightly omits "the", but adds the words "and you will", but doesn't put them in italics. The ASV rightly omits "the", does not add "and you will", and brackets "Only" signifying it is not in the text.

If you said the ASV more correct, then you are correct because both KJVs add words that are not in Hebrew.

 

[gadar perets]

I am certainly not fighting against His commandments. The love of Christ within my heart is the fulfillment of their requirement within me.

All I am saying is that no one is saved by keeping them.

Because salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ alone.

Trying to earn salvation by the works of the law is a competing method of obtaining salvation that can never be sufficient to bring real salvation to the person who attempts to enter in that way!

I agree, no one is saved by keeping the law. However, obedience to the law should be a fruit of salvation of all that believe. Obedience to the law are among the works we were ordained to walk in. If we fail to obey a particular command, then we are not being as fruitful or obedient as we should be.

 

[bbyrd009]

This parable was not given by Yeshua to show how the Jews feared touching a dead body. It was given to correct a Jewish scribes understanding of who is neighbor was; to teach what it means to love thy neighbor; to show that those who know the law do not always live by the law; to show that those who the Jews disdained have more compassion than they; to teach mercy

sure, i agree, but that does not mean that there have not been instances where a devout Jew avoided helping so that they would not become ritually unclean, and that can be googled, i just grabbed the Scripture example first bc you can decide why they walked by on the other side of the road all you like, that does not change the fact that they walked by on the other side of the road. brb

 

[brakelite]

If we fail to obey a particular command, then we are not being as fruitful or obedient as we should be.

Perhaps, but to correct such a situation let no-one fall into the trap of "trying to obey better". What a lack of fruit reveals is not a lack of fruit, but a lack in the relationship with the Vine.

 

[bbyrd009]

It was primarily the first part of your absurd comment above that made me shake my head in disbelief; "yes, nothing you could put in your mouth could make one unclean before Jesus came either, ...". So what you are saying is that Moses, for example, could eat a centipede and not become unclean or defiled even though YHWH specifically said;

Lev 11:42 Whatsoever goeth upon the belly, and whatsoever goeth upon all four, or whatsoever hath more feet among all creeping things that creep upon the earth, them ye shall not eat; for they are an abomination.
Lev 11:43 Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye should be defiled thereby.
Your problem is you do not know Torah.

my arg there would be that i do know we are told about the piling on of law upon law, and this is a function of that, but i didn't mean to suggest that you should believe any certain way, ok; i was just replying to your Q.

The law was given to demonstrate the inadequacy of the law, in the Christian perspective anyway, but since i maybe gave you a bad impression i'll say if i heard Word not to eat creeping things i wouldn't either ok, and i certainly don't blame you for your understanding or anything

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Does "Thou shalt not commit adultery" and "Thou shalt not kill/murder" apply to you or is it OK to break the letter of those laws because you somehow keep the spirit of them?

If you obey in your heart, you haven't the anger in your heart that would kill a man. There IS no law against the spirit. And, in fact, if you did kill a man, it was in your heart and came from inside, then displayed on the outside.

So if I have no anger in my heart, what law is it you are asking if I must keep?

It is possible to murder a man without outwardly doing anything. But it is NOT possible to murder a man without having inwardly already murdered him. As scripture shows: outside can be a whitewashed tombs while inside is gross dead stuff. However, IF the inside of the cup is clean, the outside is as well, no matter how much men protest!

 

[bbyrd009]

you choose to falsely accuse me of seeking to be justified by the law

I NEVER said one needs to obey the law in order to be saved.

gadar you are contradicting yourself now, so have a nice day, and i hope you understand that as far as i am concerned at least what you believe right now is fine for right now

 

[gadar perets]

sure, i agree, but that does not mean that there have not been instances where a devout Jew avoided helping so that they would not become ritually unclean, and that can be googled, i just grabbed the Scripture example first bc you can decide why they walked by on the other side of the road all you like, that does not change the fact that they walked by on the other side of the road. brb

What does this have to do with whether or not we obey the dietary laws or any other laws in Torah? It is just as bad to feed our children swine's flesh as it is to avoid helping someone in need.

 

[gadar perets]

Perhaps, but to correct such a situation let no-one fall into the trap of "trying to obey better". What a lack of fruit reveals is not a lack of fruit, but a lack in the relationship with the Vine.

What if the lack of obedience is due to a lack of knowledge/understanding concerning the law? Before I started keeping the Sabbath I had no knowledge of the Sabbath. I wasn't failing to obey because my relationship with Yeshua was lacking. It was that very relationship that caused me to learn more and embrace the Sabbath.

 

[gadar perets]

gadar you are contradicting yourself now, so have a nice day, and i hope you understand that as far as i am concerned at least what you believe right now is fine for right now

I don't see the contradiction.

 

[gadar perets]

If you obey in your heart, you haven't the anger in your heart that would kill a man. There IS no law against the spirit. And, in fact, if you did kill a man, it was in your heart and came from inside, then displayed on the outside.

So if I have no anger in my heart, what law is it you are asking if I must keep?

It is possible to murder a man without outwardly doing anything. But it is NOT possible to murder a man without having inwardly already murdered him. As scripture shows: outside can be a whitewashed tombs while inside is gross dead stuff. However, IF the inside of the cup is clean, the outside is as well, no matter how much men protest!

Our flesh is at war with the Spirit. Sometimes the flesh wins a battle. If a believer, for example, is incredibly lonely and meets a beautiful married woman who is having marital problems and who comes on to him, he may, through a weakness of the flesh, yield to her charms and not only lust for her in his heart, but actually commit adultery. Not only did he break the magnified law as Yeshua said, but he also broke the letter of the law. The law is not made for a righteous man, but if that righteous man walks in the flesh momentarily and commits adultery, the law takes effect and points out his sin. He then goes to YHWH to ask for forgiveness through Yeshua's shed blood.