The Law of Moses-Ten Commandments or God's Laws

[brakelite]

And if I worship God in spirit and truth, what law is it you say I have broken or am saying it is okay to break? the day is come when it does not matter where I worship. God seeks those who will worship Him in spirit and truth.

In your worship of God in spirit and in truth, what do you do with the 7th day which according to scripture is still holy, sanctified, and set aside for sacred use?

 

[amadeus]

God's Law amadeus, is the foundation of his government. They are there for the well being of the Universe. It was the challenge to God's law that brought down Lucifer and subsequently Adam and Eve.

But all Adam and Eve needed to know was that they should obey God. He only effectively gave them one commandment: to obey Him or not. This was and is the essence of what God presented to men, what He required and/or allowed. Once they had disobeyed things seemed to men to get more complicated.

The whole plan was always God's and He always had a way for man to get out of his dilemma. All of it was really already "spoken" and it is called the Word of God. Later God inspired men to write down the scriptures, I would suppose because men were so far away or would be moving so far away from [not physically] God they could no longer communicate with Him directly. However from even the very lowest place there was always a way. It was in God's plan.

When one did not eat meat as Adam and Eve didn't, health laws were not required but when men became became meat eaters a whole new ball game was introduced with some flesh not ideal for human consumption so God introduced health laws for their own well being. Personally, I don't see any reason for these to be abrogated. If they were not suitable then why would they be suitable now?

Why was it God that allowed men [Gen 1:29 versus Gen 9:3] beginning with Noah after the flood to eat flesh? Was not God making it clear that men would rather eat of themselves [their carnal ways or their own flesh] than of God? God saved the unclean beasts along with the clean ones as well as Noah and family.

One more step downward or away from God. So much farther to climb back up. How does one move back to as it was before the flood or before eating from the wrong tree in the garden? Do we suppose we can do it by becoming vegetarians?

Other laws were given as types and shadows, living metaphors that represented events yet to unfold in God's plan of salvation. (the reconciliation of God with mankind)
Once the type was eclipsed by the anti type, the type was no longer necessary. These types namely, animal sacrifices, certain festivals and practices faded with their fulfilment and were no longer applicable.

You use the expression, "anti type" whereas I would probably speak of the real thing as opposed to a type or shadow of it. Lots of steps to get back to prior to salvation via the ark built by Noah and prior to being cast out of Eden. In each case God gave temporary relief, a type or shadow of the real thing, which real thing Jesus would bring.

Consider Adam and Eve covering their nakedness with fig leaves [man's feeble effort] to be rplaced temporarity by skins provided by God until Jesus came with the real covering for our nakedness.

Consider the four levels mentioned on another thread by our friend @Episkopos depicted as three levels of salvation in Noah's Ark and one level of final death for those who failed to enter into the Ark. A lot of beasts were saved... but they were still beasts. The killing of the beasts begins as Noah and his family move from vegetarian to carnivore [meat eater]. The hope of mankind, his pathway to real salvation must include killing all of his own beasts:

"So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee." Psalm 73:22

"I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts." Ecc 3:18

"Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:
[She] hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table." Prov 9:1-2

I am no doubt telling you what you already know but for mwho are unfamiliar, this is perhaps useful information.

I am reading and/or listening but consider what I have to say here as well.

The Ten Commandments however are immutable. If they were not then Jesus need not have died.

But are we to go back and become a better group of Israelites doing better than the children of Jacob did with the laws written on stone tablets or back even further to do better even than that first Adam and Eve when given their choices anew? Why go only half way back along the pathway to the place of the children of Jacob instead going all the way back and simply avoid the very first error: Don't eat of the wrong tree but rather eat of the Tree of Life forthwith.

Jesus did open the Door and then the Holy Ghost was sent to enable each of us to walk that pathway correctly empowering us to make the right choice ... to overcome the world of men's ways as Jesus did.

Sin is defined by the law. It will be punished. (the wages of sin is death) If it was possible for this to be changed, God would have and could have changed it, but no, even with Jesus pleading with his Father and knowing that with God all things are possible, the cup he was about to drink was not removed.

Yes, the wages of sin is death and every man as result of the sin of our first carnal parents [Adam and Eve] has been born dead. Dead people could not reopen that closed Door to the Tree of Life. Dead people could not walk past that flaming sword [the Word of God] and through that Door/Gate into Eden where the Tree of Life awaited. Jesus came to make it possible. Jesus became the Door but to reach the Tree of Life we have to go through Him.[He is that flaming sword.] Will not going back and trying to walk the way that the carnal children of Israel [Jacob] attempted unsuccessfully also result in failure? The only Way is through Jesus, is it not?

Death is the only way God can rid the Universe of Sin. Why? because it was not possible for God to alter what he himself is.

Yes, and Jesus killed in himself those ways leading to sin:

"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:16

That flaming sword will purge or cut off or burn up any dead wood or filth in us or on us as we proceed toward the Tree of Life so that finally as overcomers we can partake and live for ever [ "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7

Confusing God's immutable law with the laws of types and shadows or health laws and lumping them all into one bag so that they are all dismissed in favour of what is propounded to be superior is playing right into Satans hand for the temporal and eternal disadvantage of the human race.

We are given the miserable history of Israel as a lesson for ourselves. Obey God's laws and he is our shield and protector. Disobey and we forfeit his protection.

Israel [the children of Jacob] with few exceptions failed miserably because they went down a pathway on which they were bound to fail. Consider what Peter says here:

"And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?" Acts 15:7-10

No more unbearable yokes:

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Matt 11:28-30

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I think I might walk 100 miles to hear amadeus preach. ☺

 

[quietthinker]

Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?" Acts 15:7-10

The unbearable yoke amadeus is that of working ones way to heaven. (the concept that ones efforts will impress God sufficiently to give man the thumbs up for salvation) This is the error that Paul addresses. It is not the willingness to keep his commandments because they are right and just and good.

The commandments are not the problem, it is how we see and hear them. Luke 8:18
Dismissing them in the hope that they will no longer condemn us is foolish. Thinking or interpreting the two commandments of 'love the Lord your God with all your heart and your neighbour as yourself' as different to the 10C's is only self delusion and in reality an excuse to hide behind so that the same commandments given in more detail (10C's) can be violated with perceived impunity.

What greater self deception can there be engaged?

 

[amadeus]

The unbearable yoke amadeus is that of working ones way to heaven. (the concept that ones efforts will impress God sufficiently to give man the thumbs up for salvation) This is the error that Paul addresses. It is not the willingness to keep his commandments because they are right and just and good.

The commandments are not the problem, it is how we see and hear them. Luke 8:18
Dismissing them in the hope that they will no longer condemn us is foolish. Thinking or interpreting the two commandments of 'love the Lord your God with all your heart and your neighbour as yourself' as different to the 10C's is only self delusion and in reality an excuse to hide behind so that the same commandments given in more detail can be violated with perceived impunity.

What greater self deception can there be engaged?

We don't do the work. We surrender to the Holy Spirit in us so that God can do the work. We are not to interpret commandments at all. If the Holy Spirit is leading we will do what we supposed to do when we are supposed to do it. God never loses battles but men who do not surrender their reins to Him do lose.

 

[Nancy]

OH and on top of that I learned there are 613 Commandments! Whew!
All 613 Commandments in the Old Testament Law of Moses
"There are a whole lot more than only 10 Commandments found in the Old Testament, there are 613 Commandments! Below is a list of the 613 mitzvot commandments (mitzvot is plural, mitzvah is singular).

There are both "positive" and "negative" mitzvot (do's and don'ts) which can be divided into 365 Negative Mitzvot (to remind us not to do bad things every day of the year) plus 248 Positive Mitzvot (the number of bones in the human body - for a total of 613. In this way, Hebrews and Jewish people are able to obey the mitzvot with their entire body.

It is important to know that while God gave us many commands to follow, including the famous Ten Commandments, He did not abolish the Law of Moses found in the Torah (the first five Books of the Bible). The following commandments are superceded by the new covenant of grace."

Hi Heart, I generally do not share media but, this teacher is very good teaching on the Laws. It is 33 minutes but...IMO very good and he really gets the point across - if you watch, let me know what you think. Many hard lined, fire and brimstone say this pastor teaches too much on Grace, so please, do not go looking for anything anybody say's about him- at least until you hear what he has to say....pray and use the discernment God has given you. I so do hope you watch this ♥

 

[Heart2Soul]

Hi Heart, I generally do not share media but, this teacher is very good teaching on the Laws. It is 33 minutes but...IMO very good and he really gets the point across - if you watch, let me know what you think. Many hard lined, fire and brimstone say this pastor teaches too much on Grace, so please, do not go looking for anything anybody say's about him- at least until you hear what he has to say....pray and use the discernment God has given you. I so do hope you watch this ♥

I did watch the whole video! This is how I have always felt....the day I complained to God that this Christianity thing is too hard because no matter how hard I try I always mess up! (read my testimony of how God revealed himself to me as my "Father") That was when I was set free of condemnation.
I truly enjoyed how this was explained...so now my eyes are opened up and I find I need to read Jesus teachings all over again with a better understanding of who, what, where and why He was saying these things. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Enoch111]

Many hard lined, fire and brimstone say this pastor teaches too much on Grace...

Nancy,
I believe you like and hold to sound doctrine. So it will be worth your while to closely examine Andrew Farley's teaching. It would appear that he is on the "Hyper-Grace" bandwagon, which is not sound doctrine. Check this out.
Is Andrew Farley's 'Naked Gospel' the Authentic Gospel?

 

[Nancy]

I did watch the whole video! This is how I have always felt....the day I complained to God that this Christianity thing is too hard because no matter how hard I try I always mess up! (read my testimony of how God revealed himself to me as my "Father") That was when I was set free of condemnation.
I truly enjoyed how this was explained...so now my eyes are opened up and I find I need to read Jesus teachings all over again with a better understanding of who, what, where and why He was saying these things. Thanks for sharing!

So glad you watched Heart! He is and has been kicked around and called a "hyper grace" teacher-if you ask me, I think Gods grace IS hyper, lol! He by no means, ever condones sin of any kind and lets his audience no this. He has been directly instrumental in where I am today in the Lord...he has some awesome, easy to be understood teachings. ♥ I do not agree 100% with ANY teacher out there but, that is why we need to be Bareans, and to be prayerful before and while in the Word.

 

[Nancy]

Nancy,
I believe you like and hold to sound doctrine. So it will be worth your while to closely examine Andrew Farley's teaching. It would appear that he is on the "Hyper-Grace" bandwagon, which is not sound doctrine. Check this out.
Is Andrew Farley's 'Naked Gospel' the Authentic Gospel?

Yes, I have read his books and seen many of his teachings. I sit under 3 different pastors teachings in which I learn much. There is not a one in whom I agree 100% with. Grace does not =sin, and he does NOT teach anything of the kind. ♥

 

[Enoch111]

Grace does not =sin, and he does NOT teach anything of the kind.

Did you read the critique or did you simply dismiss it? "Hyper Grace" teachings are false, and there are many preachers promoting these teachings today.

 

[brakelite]

Are not the commandments the litmus test for knowing whether the Spirit we are following is in fact holy?

 

[Nancy]

Did you read the critique or did you simply dismiss it? "Hyper Grace" teachings are false, and there are many preachers promoting these teachings today.

I have read quite a few over the last few years. I am not ignorant of false teachers, Andrew Farley is treated no different than the other two or three I listen to. Not one of them have the total market cornered on the total truth, IMHO.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

In your worship of God in spirit and in truth, what do you do with the 7th day which according to scripture is still holy, sanctified, and set aside for sacred use?

In my worship of God in spirit and truth....I do nothing with the 7th day. There IS no law against the spirit and truth.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Are not the commandments the litmus test for knowing whether the Spirit we are following is in fact holy?

Uh...He IS called the HOLY Spirit you know...

 

[quietthinker]

Uh...He IS called the HOLY Spirit you know...

you have misunderstood the question sbg

 

[quietthinker]

In my worship of God in spirit and truth....I do nothing with the 7th day. There IS no law against the spirit and truth.

you say you do nothing with the 7th day and that is perhaps what you like to think but in fact you do do something with it just as you do something with God's other commandments.

 

[CoreIssue]

Bible Study - The Ten Commandments Before Sinai?

The Law of Moses was to Israel, Davidic Covenant to David, Abrahamic to Abraham, etc.

Make sure you note to whom laws and covenants were made.

 

[CoreIssue]

Christ fulfilled Sabbaths, festivals and holy days.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

you have misunderstood the question sbg

I think I understood the question very well. He judges other men (And himself) outwardly.