Eternal Security

[farouk]

Romans 8.38-39 is a great passage about the believer's eternal security.

 

[gadar perets]

Jesus is sitting in the throne of the Father...Revelation 3:21!

The verse says he sits "WITH" his Father. He does NOT sit alone AS the Father.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Jesus is sitting in the throne of the Father...Revelation 3:21!

Since Jesus is the Lord (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv)), and the Father is the Lord of heaven and earth (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21), but if they are not the same Lord, then that is two Lords. But Ephesians 4:5 says, One Lord, one faith, one baptism, and 1 Corinthians 8:6 also testifies to the fact that there is only one Lord...and that Lord is Jesus Christ...He is the Lord of heaven and earth! See Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, 1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv).

1 Corinthians 2:14 reveals to us the reason why this preaching is not acceptable to your natural minds...

You must at the very least consider the claim of kjv-onlyism, that if it is true, you cannot wiggle your way out of scriptural truth by going with itching ears to other translations.

If the only thing you can bring up against it is that it exalts the resurrection of Jesus Christ as a holiday, then you are severely lacking in your evidence against it...because the original autographs have been lost to us and God the Holy Spirit may have indeed chosen at that time in history to exalt Easter as a holiday by including the word Easter in that passage; for that God exalts the day of the resurrection and the devil desires to undermine it...

Nearly the ENTIRE book of Psalms refers to God as LORD....one of my favorites Psalm 100.....
Psalm 100 King James Version (KJV)
100 Make a joyful noise unto the Lord, all ye lands.

2 Serve the Lord with gladness: come before his presence with singing.

3 Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.

5 For the Lord is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.


Paul is addressing unity in one Spirit among the Ephesians and is making a point to them explaining the necessity to keep unity in the body of believers...as he prepares to teach them how God wants His church set up and ran. The goal is the perfecting of the saints.

Ephesians 4:2-6
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
​

Ephesians: 4:13-15
(13-16) The desired goal of God’s work through church leadership and equipped saints.
Till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head; Christ; from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.

Then we have the commandment Jesus gave:
Mark 12:30 King James Version (KJV)
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

 

[farouk]

Nearly the ENTIRE book of Psalms refers to God as LORD....one of my favorites Psalm 100.....
Psalm 100 King James Version (KJV)
100 Make a joyful noise unto the Lord, all ye lands.

2 Serve the Lord with gladness: come before his presence with singing.

3 Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.

5 For the Lord is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.


Paul is addressing unity in one Spirit among the Ephesians and is making a point to them explaining the necessity to keep unity in the body of believers...as he prepares to teach them how God wants His church set up and ran. The goal is the perfecting of the saints.

Ephesians 4:2-6
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
​

Ephesians: 4:13-15
(13-16) The desired goal of God’s work through church leadership and equipped saints.
Till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head; Christ; from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.

Then we have the commandment Jesus gave:
Mark 12:30 King James Version (KJV)
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Great verses there! some similar ones in Philippians also.

 

[Helen]

Romans 8.38-39 is a great passage about the believer's eternal security.

Ephesians 2 is also a great favourite of mine..

 

[gadar perets]

Romans 8.38-39 is a great passage about the believer's eternal security.

Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Messiah Yeshua our Lord.​

I believe this wholeheartedly, but I do not believe in eternal security. All the things mentioned here are from external sources acting upon a believer with no affect. It does not mention the biggest threat which is from within the believer; free will. Any believer can choose to walk away from Yeshua and renounce him as their Savior, especially if they are in a weak spiritual condition due to their lack of a prayer life, a sinful lifestyle, not feeding on the Word, etc. The more carnally minded a person is, the more at risk they are for making the wrong choices in life, even choosing to no longer believe in Yeshua.

 

[bbyrd009]

Romans 8.38-39 is a great passage about the believer's eternal security.

imo liberties must be taken with "us" in the passage for that interpretation, but you may interpret that however you like i guess. But you might even note the implicit invitation to identify an "us" there fwiw, i suggest that it is a kind of trap

 

[justbyfaith]

Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Messiah Yeshua our Lord.​

I believe this wholeheartedly, but I do not believe in eternal security. All the things mentioned here are from external sources acting upon a believer with no affect. It does not mention the biggest threat which is from within the believer; free will. Any believer can choose to walk away from Yeshua and renounce him as their Savior, especially if they are in a weak spiritual condition due to their lack of a prayer life, a sinful lifestyle, not feeding on the Word, etc. The more carnally minded a person is, the more at risk they are for making the wrong choices in life, even choosing to no longer believe in Yeshua.

See Jeremiah 32:38-40. The fear of the LORD would be a safeguard against anyone who is truly born again departing from the Lord completely; because God disciplines His children (Hebrews 12:5-11).

 

[CoreIssue]

No one was born again until the resurrection of Christ. So citing Jeremiah doesn't work.

Romans 8
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,k]">[k] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Either this is true and we are eternally secure or the bible is worthless because it lies.

 

[justbyfaith]

No one was born again until the resurrection of Christ. So citing Jeremiah doesn't work.

Romans 8
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,k]">[k] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Either this is true and we are eternally secure or the bible is worthless because it lies.

Jeremiah 32:38-40 does work because it is the word of God.

And btw, the passage actually teaches eternal security, I don't know if you got that.

Because people find a loophole in John 10:27-30 by saying that you can of your own free will walk away out of God's hand; but Jeremiah 32:38-40 deals with that loophole quite well impaho.

 

[gadar perets]

See Jeremiah 32:38-40. The fear of the LORD would be a safeguard against anyone who is truly born again departing from the Lord completely; because God disciplines His children (Hebrews 12:5-11).

Jeremiah 32:38-40 only refers to the literal children of Israel after they are regathered from wherever YHWH scattered them around the world. Any believer that renounces Yeshua is no longer a child of YHWH and will not be subject to His discipline, but they will be subject to His judgment.

 

[gadar perets]

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,k]">[k] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Either this is true and we are eternally secure or the bible is worthless because it lies.

See post #1746.

 

[CoreIssue]

Jeremiah 32:38-40 does work because it is the word of God.

And btw, the passage actually teaches eternal security, I don't know if you got that.

Because people find a loophole in John 10:27-30 by saying that you can of your own free will walk away out of God's hand; but Jeremiah 32:38-40 deals with that loophole quite well impaho.

It is prophetic to Israel alone.

 

[CoreIssue]

See post #1746.

That isn't my full. quote

 

[justbyfaith]

Jeremiah 32:38-40 only refers to the literal children of Israel after they are regathered from wherever YHWH scattered them around the world. Any believer that renounces Yeshua is no longer a child of YHWH and will not be subject to His discipline, but they will be subject to His judgment.

It is prophetic to Israel alone.

Gentile believers are graffed into the olive tree, which is Israel (Romans 11:11-24).

Israel is defined as all those who are of a clean heart (Psalms 73:1).

Before any true believer would get to the point where he might renounce Jesus, the same believer would be subject to the chastening of the Lord as the Lord would do that in order to deal with any sin that might eventually grow to the extent that it might cause a man to renounce Christ.

The fear of the LORD is something that God doesn't only give to the children of Israel. The scripture is a book filled with principles that we can lay hold of regardless of whether in context the promise applies to us as Gentiles or not.

Gentiles can partake of promises given to Israel according to reasoning that I present to you above.

 

[CoreIssue]

There are certain promises that are only for Israel.

 

[Phoneman777]

...we have eternal security.
But don't kid yourself.
One who is truly filled with the Spirit of God will never give up their eternal security.

I wholeheartedly agree. Eternal Security may be cast off by us before exiting this world just as sure as we may remove the parachute before jumping out of a plane. God will never force one who becomes a saint to remain a saint against there will. Nothing grieves the heart of the Holy Spirit more than a sinner or saint that decides his sin, which cost the life of God's dear beloved Son, is more precious in their sight than is the Cross which ALONE makes possible the conversion of a sinner to a saint.

 

[gadar perets]

That isn't my full. quote

I know. Post #1746 only addressed the part of your post I quoted.

No one was born again until the resurrection of Christ. So citing Jeremiah doesn't work.

I agree.

Romans 8
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

I bolded what I believe to be the key words. Someone who renounces YHWH's Son as his/her Saviour no longer loves YHWH. Such a person will not be numbered among Yeshua's brothers and sisters. One must continue to abide in Yeshua to receive the promises.

 

[gadar perets]

I wholeheartedly agree. Eternal Security may be cast off by us before exiting this world just as sure as we may remove the parachute before jumping out of a plane. God will never force one who becomes a saint to remain a saint against there will. Nothing grieves the heart of the Holy Spirit more than a sinner or saint that decides his sin, which cost the life of God's dear beloved Son, is more precious in their sight than is the Cross which ALONE makes possible the conversion of a sinner to a saint.

Shouldn't you have written, "I wholeheartedly disagree" since the rest of your post is against eternal security, but Rollo Tamasi's post was for eternal security?

 

[CoreIssue]

I know. Post #1746 only addressed the part of your post I quoted.


I agree.


I bolded what I believe to be the key words. Someone who renounces YHWH's Son as his/her Saviour no longer loves YHWH. Such a person will not be numbered among Yeshua's brothers and sisters. One must continue to abide in Yeshua to receive the promises.

Actually, such a person never loved Christ to start.