How does God lead?

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1stCenturyLady

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Wow. I agree with prophecy.
Tongues...I'm told some speak in tongues; people I trust. I've seen a lot of persons go up to an altar and try really hard to get this gift. I don't think we should try hard to get a gift -- we either get it or we don't.

Word of knowledge...I could tell you a story...About my own brother.

None of the gifts have ceased. I know you have studied covenants, and not one thing ceased during the Old Covenant - they did circumcisions and sacrifices all the way up to Jesus. And our New Covenant is the same, and the gifts are part of our New Covenant. They will finally cease when we see Christ face to face at the second coming. 1 Corinthians 13:12. What is unique in the New Covenant is the Holy Spirit given to all believers who have repented from all their sin. That includes tongues. There are many reasons why some have trouble, and it usually has to do with past chains of unbelief. Also, some have never truly repented from sinning in the first place to even receive the Holy Spirit. That is the main hindrance in the church. I was in three denominations from the time I was a child and never had one answer to prayer - not one! But one night when I truly repented and wanted to be scrubbed clean from all sin, it was like the heavens opened. I saw a vision - my first - and then I heard God speak to me for the first time. Just one word, but it was like thunder. Then I just started listening intently, and He spoke 8 sentences that seared right through me. From that night on I could speak in tongues, began listening in prayer circles for whom and what I was to pray, and the answers to prayer haven't stopped to this day.
 
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1stCenturyLady

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What happened to my brother was not false.
If Word of Knowledge means that a pastor knows something about you he could not possibly know,,,this did happen to my brother when he was a pretty new Christian many years ago.

BTW, I do know that some of it is fake to in order to condition the crowd.

Don't listen to scoffers as they are ungodly. Listen to those who actually believe and practice the word of God and the gifts listed therein.

Psalms 1:1
Blessed is the man
Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly,
Nor stands in the path of sinners,
Nor sits in the seat of the scoffers;
2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord,
And in His law he meditates day and night.
3 He shall be like a tree
Planted by the rivers of water,
That brings forth its fruit in its season,
Whose leaf also shall not wither;
And whatever he does shall prosper.
4 The ungodly are not so,
But are like the chaff which the wind drives away.
5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment,
Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
6 For the Lord knows the way of the righteous,
But the way of the ungodly shall perish.

The New Testament is like a manual of how to's. God is like a great chef who wrote a cookbook. He doesn't now say, now that you have my cookbook, you don't need to eat. No! Eat and be healthy. The gifts were for the strengthening of the body of Christ. We aren't on a starvation diet now.
 
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1stCenturyLady

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We still have many dead in the WOF movement unheard of in the NT.

If someone gets an "F" on an exam, it is not the teacher's fault. As far as any deaths, I don't know of any that obeyed a rhema. Do you?

There is a right way, and a wrong way, even in the name of Jesus. Even in the Bible! BTW, Hagin taught the right way, and that's all. Prosperity theology evolved later by others, like Capp.

11 Now God worked unusual miracles by the hands of Paul, 12 so that even handkerchiefs or aprons were brought from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out of them. 13 Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists took it upon themselves to call the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, “We exorcise you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches.” 14 Also there were seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, who did so.

15 And the evil spirit answered and said, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?”

16 Then the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, overpowered them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.
 
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1stCenturyLady

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It's all false today. No true substance.

I believe you to be very sincere in defending your denominational views, but you are exactly like Saul the Zealot of Tarsus persecuting the Christians who act on their faith, protecting your dead religion, and it will take a bolt of lightning for you to see the light. I really hope God speaks to you like He did me. But first, you must repent from all your unbelief that prevents you from seeing that God is still doing the same things He did yesterday, today and forever - whatever He wants! And you are not going to tell Him He can't.
 
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friend of

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ScottA

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Well, Scott, if you're right and insist that all the gifts went beyond the Apostles, then we should be confessing our sins to someone here on earth since Jesus passed this authority on to the Apostles in John 20:23.

I'm not saying I don't think the gifts are for today...I know they are.
But I think we can't have it both ways and should think out everything carefully.
You error.

John 20:23 was to "disciples", to whom He also commanded, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations", which He said was by "the Holy Spirit", not by the apostles.
 

ScottA

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You're responding to Dave L in post no. 145 with the above.

This is what @Dave L said:
Again, I would not be following Christ to believe anything not originating in scripture.

You're telling him the above statement of his is not biblical...
What's not biblical about it? It sounds very biblical to me...
especially for Protestants that prove everything by scripture.
Like the Bareans in Acts.
Well...since you want to do things Dave's way...

Prove by the scriptures, that to follow Christ one must prove everything in the scriptures.

(It's not there)
 

GodsGrace

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Don't listen to scoffers as they are ungodly. Listen to those who actually believe and practice the word of God and the gifts listed therein.

Psalms 1:1
Blessed is the man
Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly,
Nor stands in the path of sinners,
Nor sits in the seat of the scoffers;
2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord,
And in His law he meditates day and night.
3 He shall be like a tree
Planted by the rivers of water,
That brings forth its fruit in its season,
Whose leaf also shall not wither;
And whatever he does shall prosper.
4 The ungodly are not so,
But are like the chaff which the wind drives away.
5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment,
Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
6 For the Lord knows the way of the righteous,
But the way of the ungodly shall perish.

The New Testament is like a manual of how to's. God is like a great chef who wrote a cookbook. He doesn't now say, now that you have my cookbook, you don't need to eat. No! Eat and be healthy. The gifts were for the strengthening of the body of Christ. We aren't on a starvation diet now.
Thanks for the above.
I believe gifts are for today...I just don't think, and am sure, that prophecy has ended...if by prophecy we mean revelation, or knowledge of the end of the world.

Prophecy as declaring the word of God still exists when someone preaches the word.

Healings still exist but it's not the same as in the times of Jesus. I don't know why.
Jesus was able to heal because He was God. Someone might have a special gift for healing, but even they can't heal everyone or the whole world would be running to these persons instead of to doctors.

Basically I believe we should do what the bible says...if we pray in the will of God, then all our prayers will be realized. When we pray for a healing,,,it may not be God's will for us to heal at that time,,,otherwise no one would ever be sick or die.

This is all mysterious to me...but I've experienced a little of everything although I don't have the answer to all these mysteries.
 

GodsGrace

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You error.

John 20:23 was to "disciples", to whom He also commanded, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations", which He said was by "the Holy Spirit", not by the apostles.
What's my error?
WHO are the disciples?

While Jesus was alive the Apostles were referred to as Disciples.
There is one occasion where it states that Jesus sent out the Disciples, and this refers to about 70 persons. Luke 10:1

After Jesus' death, the 12 Disciples became known as the Apostles to distinguish them from the others and to give them their rightful importance.

In John 20:23 Jesus gives the Apostles authority to forgive sin.

If what YOU had posted is correct, then Catholics are correct in believing that priests STILL have the authority to forgive sins. (or, at least, to declare it).

I'm saying that we have to be careful about stating WHAT is passed on and not make blanket statements.
 

GodsGrace

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Well...since you want to do things Dave's way...

Prove by the scriptures, that to follow Christ one must prove everything in the scriptures.

(It's not there)
Acts 17:11

Which is a moot verse anyway because HOW else do we follow Christ except by how it is determined in scripture?

I hear some that say they're believers tell me they will never lose their salvation even if they return to a life of sin. IS THIS BIBLICAL?

HOW Jesus tells us to follow Him is in the entire N.T...


John 7:16
John 5:47
Romans 10:17
 
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Dave L

Guest
How does your position square with John?

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:9–10) (KJV 1900)

“For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.” (1 John 5:4) (KJV 1900)
 
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Dave L

Guest
I believe you to be very sincere in defending your denominational views, but you are exactly like Saul the Zealot of Tarsus persecuting the Christians who act on their faith, protecting your dead religion, and it will take a bolt of lightning for you to see the light. I really hope God speaks to you like He did me. But first, you must repent from all your unbelief that prevents your from seeing that God is still doing the same things He did yesterday, today and forever - whatever He wants! And you are not going to tell Him He can't.
This is not true of me. What I fear is you are more like King Saul who broke off from God's word and consulted other spirits. If you add to scripture, you do exactly this.
 
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Dave L

Guest
If someone gets an "F" on an exam, it is not the teacher's fault. As far as any deaths, I don't know of any that obeyed a rhema. Do you?

There is a right way, and a wrong way, even in the name of Jesus. Even in the Bible! BTW, Hagin taught the right way, and that's all. Prosperity theology evolved later by others, like Capp.

11 Now God worked unusual miracles by the hands of Paul, 12 so that even handkerchiefs or aprons were brought from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out of them. 13 Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists took it upon themselves to call the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, “We exorcise you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches.” 14 Also there were seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, who did so.

15 And the evil spirit answered and said, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?”

16 Then the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, overpowered them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.
But, you do not see any examples of people dying in attempted healings in the NT as you do in faith healing circles.
 
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Dave L

Guest
At least the WOF is a hot church and sees more miracles than failures. Their doctrine just needs one tweak, and that is, it is not their will, but God's will, and to wait on the Lord. Those that have begun to do that, see success. Far better that, than no expectation of ever seeing God work on their behalf as in the Reformation dead churches, that believe their lack of experience is scriptural. Far from it.

Antichrist is more than a single person. He exists any place people ignore God's word and follow extra biblical teachings. The many deaths in failed faith healing attempts speak for this.

“Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” (2 Thessalonians 2:9–12) (KJV 1900)
 
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Dave L

Guest
1 Corinthians 12 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.
“Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?” (Galatians 3:4–5) (KJV 1900)
 
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Dave L

Guest
Yes and I think that includes people as well. We have to be careful that it is not us or are judged to be of the wrong spirit by people who intimately know God and His ways.
If people speak bible, I listen, when they speak beyond scripture I don't allow myself to take stock in it.
 
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Dave L

Guest
??
What does this have to do with my post to you?
It means free will always overcomes sin in those born again and they will never leave Christ.
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:9–10) (KJV 1900)
 

GodsGrace

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It means free will always overcomes sin in those born again and they will never leave Christ.
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:9–10) (KJV 1900)
But you stated we don't have free will.
 

GodsGrace

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I believe I said something like, we freely choose according to the reasons we base our choices on. That God sends and uses to control us.
OK.
So then you can't use words like FREE WILL, as you did in your post no. 217.

IF you do NOT believe in free will, you can't use the words FREE WILL in a sentence!

(unless it's to say you don't believe in it)