Believers stay righteous through their obedience

[Hidden In Him]

Fortunately many are saved outside denominational church walls and owe their allegiance to God and His word and not to doctrines and traditions of man created denominations. Not saying this is you by the way, but is a common condition that arises.

Agreed Frank, and I think this is where all the confusion comes in. Many interpret "works" as being doing things like keeping the sacraments, and these IMO run a close parallel with the Jewish laws Paul was warning believers were not required to keep in Galatians, Colossians and Ephesians. They were only outward rituals that carried no great weight with God.

Numerous commandments were a different matter, however. The commandments to forgive, to not deny Christ, to walk in love, to not preach another Christ... many of them were not superficial rituals; obedience to them lay at the very heart of determining who was truly His and who was not (2 Timothy 2:19).

 

[Frank Lee]

We have a family member that belongs to a denomination that is very big on works. He always boasts of the good deeds they, are doing. Sadly neither he nor his family to my knowledge, are born again Christians. Their church and traditions are all they speak of, and NEVER EVER about Jesus. They depend entirely on their works. They are examples of those seeking to be justified by works.

We pray for their salvation. They have been taught by their denomination everything but the simple gospel.

When the spirit of God convicted me I knew I was a sinner! I knew it was grace and grace alone saving me for I'd been witness of my failures and sins all of my life up to 33.

Truly being saved and then filled with the baptism of the Holy Spirit you are indeed a new creation with a new set of want too's.

Even so we stumble on our corpses.

Nahum 2:5 KJVS
He shall recount his worthies: they shall stumble in their walk; they shall make haste to the wall thereof, and the defence shall be prepared.
Nahum 3:3 KJVS
The horseman lifteth up both the bright sword and the glittering spear: and there is a multitude of slain, and a great number of carcases; and there is none end of their corpses; they stumble upon their corpses:

But thanks be to God for;

1 John 1:9 KJVS
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[Zachary]

Truly being saved and then filled with the baptism of the Holy Spirit
you are indeed a new creation with a new set of want to's.
1 John 1:9 KJVS
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

You don't mean to say that the baptism is required to be a new creation, do you?
.

 

[justbyfaith]

Makes me think of Psalms 37:23-24.

re #22.

 

[justbyfaith]

The baptism of the Holy Spirit/entire sanctification is a second benefit (2 Corinthians 1:15).

 

[Frank Lee]

You don't mean to say that the baptism is required to be a new creation, do you?
.

I was saved before I experienced either baptism. I was a brand new creation and couldn't identify with anything from my previous life.

That was 41 years ago.

 

[Hidden In Him]

We have a family member that belongs to a denomination that is very big on works. He always boasts of the good deeds they, are doing. Sadly either he nor his family are born again Christians. They depend entirely on their works. They are examples of those seeking to be justified by works.

We pray for their salvation. They have been taught by their denomination everything but the simple gospel.

When the spirit of God convicted me I knew I was a sinner! I knew it was grace and grace alone saving me for I'd been witness of my failures and sins all of my life up to 33.

Truly being saved and then filled with the baptism of the Holy Spirit you are indeed a new creation with a new set of want too's.

Even so we stumble on our corpses.

Nahum 2:5 KJVS
He shall recount his worthies: they shall stumble in their walk; they shall make haste to the wall thereof, and the defence shall be prepared.
Nahum 3:3 KJVS
The horseman lifteth up both the bright sword and the glittering spear: and there is a multitude of slain, and a great number of carcases; and there is none end of their corpses; they stumble upon their corpses:

But thanks be to God for;

1 John 1:9 KJVS
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I agree with all this. Our faith is accounted unto us as righteousness, and without faith in the blood of Christ we can't even enter into a relationship with God. The place where I differ with most, however, is that I take the phrase "and his faith was accounted unto him for righteousness" to mean that righteousness was accredited to Abraham in the same way a credit card company accredits a borrower with his ability to fulfill a loan.

Let me put it this way: I liken it to a championship basketball coach, newly hired by a university who is conducting practices to see who will make the team. Some of the recruits have more talent than others, but he knows that if any of them are going to be championship material they will need to have FAITH in him and his program, and in everything he's saying if they want to get a lot better. Those who think they are already there and "all that," and don't need to work won't make the cut. Meanwhile, the ones who are listening and working hard to do everything he says to do will, because he is choosing them not based on how good they are then but on how good they will be four years down the road if they keep believing in him and doing everything he tells them to do.

I suppose it's the difference between growing in a relationship with God as one's Savior and Lord and simply assuming one is "pleasing God" by doing "good deeds."

 

[Mayflower]

This thread makes me think of this beautiful church hymn "Trust and Obey". I do believe in grace alone in Jesus Christ for salvation, but trusting and obeying Jehovah God and His commandments leads to a peaceful life.

1. When we walk with the Lord in the light of His Word,
   What a glory He sheds on our way!
   While we do His good will, He abides with us still,
   And with all who will trust and obey.
   • Refrain:
     Trust and obey, for there’s no other way
     To be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey.
2. Not a shadow can rise, not a cloud in the skies,
   But His smile quickly drives it away;
   Not a doubt or a fear, not a sigh or a tear,
   Can abide while we trust and obey.
3. Not a burden we bear, not a sorrow we share,
   But our toil He doth richly repay;
   Not a grief or a loss, not a frown or a cross,
   But is blessed if we trust and obey.
4. But we never can prove the delights of His love
   Until all on the altar we lay;
   For the favor He shows, for the joy He bestows,
   Are for them who will trust and obey.
5. Then in fellowship sweet we will sit at His feet,
   Or we’ll walk by His side in the way;
   What He says we will do, where He sends we will go;
   Never fear, only trust and obey.

 

[Dave L]

If God is only concerned with the condition of our hearts, why would He give commands?

Why take your GPS along when you travel into unfamiliar areas?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Why take your GPS along when you travel into unfamiliar areas?

Are you admitting that He gives us commands or not? LoL.

You seem to be building a case that we should simply know His commands without having to be told. But then it leaves you having to explain why the NT writers were giving commandments to the church (and a bunch of them, like all the time). Did the saints in the New Testament era not yet have their "GPSs" functioning properly or what?

 

[Dave L]

Are you admitting that He gives us commands or not? LoL.

You seem to be building a case that we should simply know His commands without having to be told. But then it leaves you having to explain why the NT writers were giving commandments to the church (and a bunch of them, like all the time). Did the saints in the New Testament era not yet have their "GPSs" functioning properly or what?

We use the Ten Commandments (all but the Sabbath) to censor out thoughts and imaginations (the flesh). But we have the two great commandments of love for God and people written in our hearts. So we walk according to the law of love by nature of the new birth.

 

[Zachary]

I was saved before I experienced either baptism.

That's a cute way of saying that water baptism is not required to be born-again.
(But, it is most highly recommended afterwards.)
My experience also!

 

[bbyrd009]

We pray for their salvation.

we pray for your salvation too, Frank!

just so you know bro

I was saved before I experienced either baptism. I was a brand new creation and couldn't identify with anything from my previous life.

That was 41 years ago.

ah, before or after you "served" in the armed forces, one might ask? i say this bc you might wanna have some pious-sounding answer prepped in case they are not fascists too ok, not bc i am objecting

 

[justbyfaith]

we pray for your salvation too, Frank!

Who's we?

Frank's a brother in the Lord.

 

[bbyrd009]

Who's we?

why don't you ask Frank?

We pray for their salvation.

Frank's a brother in the Lord.

isn't Frank praying for some other brothers too?

see, if they should appreciate it then why shouldn't he?
if you get offended, then why shouldn't they?

 

[justbyfaith]

It's true that we can pray for our brothers and sisters to be saved to the uttermost.

So then, even if they are "saved", we can still pray for their salvation.

 

[bbyrd009]

sounds logical to me!

 

[Jay Ross]

For me GPS x, y, and z, coordinates provide what I call bacterial data, a whole lot of coordinates for the location of a desired outcome. "Arriving" at the desired outcome is not what God asked Abraham to do. For Abraham, God required Abraham to be also blameless as he, and his descendants, journeyed towards the time when he and they with be inheritors of the renewed, righteous earth that God will put in place for them to inherit at a particular point in history when all of mankind will have their journey reviewed for righteousness.

Too many people are focused on the starting and finishing points that the story of their journey through life only focuses on the final outcome, whereas God is also interested in our journey of being renewed in the spirit and of the mind such that we become a renewed person that reflects that we are actually walking with God on this life's journey towards the goal that has been set before us.

The story of how we travel from one stated coordinate location to another desired coordinate location is very important to remember because if the device fails because of a lost connection to the dark heavenly bodies above which the GPS devices heavily rely on, then we can still navigate to the desired location by remembering the story of how we have travelled previously to that desired location and the landscape of what is or was around us becomes our guiding reference for our journey towards the desired final outcome for our journey.

God's storyline of how we can go on that journey has not changed since the beginning of time for mankind. Our connection to God's "God's Personal Service" system is working all of the time to help us along on that journey. All that we need to connect to God's "GPS" is to know God's terms of the connection and to step out in faith and believe in Him. We have to tune our connection to God's "GPS" and filter out all of the noise and static that interferes with our connection with God.

We also need to remember that any loss of connection is not found on God's end of the personal service system but only on our end of the connection but when that happens, God does not abandon us during this lost service breakdown but he continues to draw us towards the end location outcome and in time we will recognise that we have to turn our end of the connection system back on.

Shalom

 

[brakelite]

Galatians 3:2-3 KJVS
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

So are you inferring that those who walk in the Spirit don't obey His commandments?

 

[brakelite]

I agree with

We use the Ten Commandments (all but the Sabbath) to censor out thoughts and imaginations (the flesh).

But I do have a question. Why exclude the Sabbath? Is it not a commandment? If at some time it was included, as the 'exclusion' comment suggests, and it was included on the basis of the authority of the Law-giver, then I would assume that you have equal authority for its excision right? A voice from heaven? An appearance on Sinai with lightening and thunder? A prophet declaring it's demise? Even some pronouncement in scripture? Like, "thus saith the Lord, the Sabbath is no longer valid" ?