Believers stay righteous through their obedience

[mjrhealth]

Read the whole context of Matthew 10:5-42 and in context, you will discover that our taking up our own cross is to walk the same road that Jesus walked. The cross of self denial... The cross that became acquainted with grief and sorrow... The cross that brought a sword of division between parents and children; between siblings; between friends. The cross that meant hardship and self sacrifice. That brought persecution and bloodshed upon its bearers.

Amen to that part, than you die.

That is the cross we are called to bear. If we refuse it, Jesus said we are not worthy of Him.

If you are called to be His disciple, doesnt mean you wont be saved if you dont, That would make Jesus like man, offering you a free gift, than demanding you pay, after you accept it.

3 out of the 4 gospels declare that Jesus never carried His cross, all the way a man called called simon carried it for Him, for after all His punishment He was too weak to carry it, do you think Jesus would demand we carry our burdens on our own??

Mat_11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat_11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Christ carried the burden so we would never have to, once you take up that cross, He is there to carry it for you. than you die as He did, and are raised up as I previously stated, into the newness of His life, than nothing is a burden.

 

[justbyfaith]

Not all men are called to be disciples, just as not all are called to be ministers or prophets nor priests. Yes we are "asked" to walk in His love, since we have none really of our own, ours is simply not sufficient. As for the cross, how far are you going to carry it?, if it is before you, than you have not died to self, if it is behind you than self is dead, and you have being raised up to walk in the newness of His life. than self has no place because your old life is dead.

as I stated previously

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom_6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Has to do with this part

Mat 20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
Mat 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

Do you know what His baptism was and His cup.

Because that is where your cross takes you and He will carry the burden it was never meant to be ours.

He did it so we wouldnt have to. So we have nothing to boast of but Christ Jesus.

In receiving His love we receive a mandate to put Jesus first, others second, and ourselves last. This is what love is: it amounts to carrying a cross. Since salvation happens when we receive the love of God, it must be surrender to the love of God, even the Cross in our lives, that happens when we become saved. If we do not surrender to the love of God then how can we receive it? We must be willing to live according to His love as a prerequisite for receiving it: and that means that the Lord has given us a cross to bear the moment we become His children.

Mat_11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat_11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Christ carried the burden so we would never have to, once you take up that cross,

A yoke, with oxen, is a piece of wood that connects a weaker ox to a stronger one. The thing about a yoke like this is that the stronger ox carries most of the weight of the burden; but if you are going to be yoked to a stronger ox you must be willing to have him lead the way. You cannot be yoked to a stronger ox and be the one to lead the way: the other ox by his strength will drag you in the direction that he wants the both of you to go.

So if you are going to be yoked unto Jesus, He will carry most of the weight of the burden; nevertheless your will cannot any longer be your own; you will be going in the direction that Jesus leads: and also there is a burden involved, though it is easy and light compared to the weight of the world's sin that was on your shoulders before receiving Christ.

Also a yoke is not necessarily the same thing as a Cross. The cross that we bear in life as the result of believing in Jesus is the call to daily self-denial which is truly the epitome of what love is all about.

 

[mjrhealth]

A yoke, with oxen, is a piece of wood that connects a weaker ox to a stronger one. The thing about a yoke like this is that the stronger ox carries most of the weight of the burden; but if you are going to be yoked to a stronger ox you must be willing to have him lead the way. You cannot be yoked to a stronger ox and be the one to lead the way: the other ox by his strength will drag you in the direction that he wants the both of you to go.

Amen, and as I said before, why did Jesus take up the cross.? He did it for us, it led Him to His death, just as it does us. How does one carry a cross once one is dead and raised up. Their are many who have paid that price just as He did, no longer their own, they belong to Him, as I have said, the cross is behind them, their past lives are dead, they are raised up into the newness of His life and now they walk that narrow path with Him leading the way. The walk will never be easy, but He is always there to carry our burdens, if we are willing to give them to Him.

Rom_6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

God bless

 

[brakelite]

If you are called to be His disciple, doesnt mean you wont be saved if you dont, That would make Jesus like man, offering you a free gift, than demanding you pay, after you accept it.

If you tire of carrying your cross, "I am with you always", but it doesn't say he will take your cross and carry it for you. If you let go of your cross, thinking your life is in jeopardy, thinking to save your life, you will certainly lose it.
Carrying your cross is not a payment for your salvation. It is the inevitable burden we all must bear if we seek to walk with Him as He walked . It is the price we must all pay if we desire to love Him and obey His commandments. The price of obedience is self sacrifice. The cost of walking with Him is that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
He who seeks to save his own life, shall lose it.

 

[mjrhealth]

If you tire of carrying your cross, "I am with you always", but it doesn't say he will take your cross and carry it for you. If you let go of your cross, thinking your life is in jeopardy, thinking to save your life, you will certainly lose it.
Carrying your cross is not a payment for your salvation. It is the inevitable burden we all must bear if we seek to walk with Him as He walked . It is the price we must all pay if we desire to love Him and obey His commandments. The price of obedience is self sacrifice. The cost of walking with Him is that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
He who seeks to save his own life, shall lose it.

Hmm so now grace by faith comes with payment after the fact??? Trust the religious to add burdens to men. And no it is not the "inevitable burden", for it is not for all to carry. you have just added to the price of salvation, and now all those that are weak in faith and cannot carry that burden, will fall away, because men demand of them things they them selves do not do. There are plenty who have not being asked to carry that burden, yet will be saved, because its Gods good pleasure to do so, and who is man to contend with God.

As i have said before, if you are still carrying your cross, than you have not died to self, nor put away that old man, nor raised up into the newness of the life that He gives all men who die with Him.

Rom_6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Dead men dont carry crosses.

 

[brakelite]

Hmm so now grace by faith comes with payment after the fact??? Trust the religious to add burdens to men. And no it is not the "inevitable burden", for it is not for all to carry. you have just added to the price of salvation, and now all those that are weak in faith and cannot carry that burden, will fall away, because men demand of them things they them selves do not do. There are plenty who have not being asked to carry that burden, yet will be saved, because its Gods good pleasure to do so, and who is man to contend with God.

As i have said before, if you are still carrying your cross, than you have not died to self, nor put away that old man, nor raised up into the newness of the life that He gives all men who die with Him.

Rom_6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Dead men dont carry crosses.

Interesting. So the promise that persecution comes to all who would live in godliness, is a burden we don't carry, but Jesus carries? Tell that to all the martyrs throughout the last 20 centuries. I think you are so intent and focused on critiquing anyone who even hints at obedience because in your mind it is akin to 'working' for salvation, you miss everything they are actually saying. I suggest you listen before you speak.

 

[mjrhealth]

Interesting. So the promise that persecution comes to all who would live in godliness, is a burden we don't carry, but Jesus carries? Tell that to all the martyrs throughout the last 20 centuries. I think you are so intent and focused on critiquing anyone who even hints at obedience because in your mind it is akin to 'working' for salvation, you miss everything they are actually saying. I suggest you listen before you speak.

No it isnt, I have no problems. God does, we certainly could not do anything with out Him, as for obedience, that is what Faith is, when we walk in faith we walk in obedience because Faith says, " I believe you God". God set out to change the inward man, but man runs around trying to clean the outside. As for Martyrs, was it the outside you looked at or the inside, we see someone doing some good work and proclaim them as christians yet that very work they do may be simply out of trying to please God, so many have dies in the name of Jesus and God and called martyrs, when all they where doing is through selfishness , as Christ put it.

Joh 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
Joh 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

The devil comes as an angel of light, , men see what they perceive as good and are deceived.

Jesus came and did everything out of Love and was considered to have a devil, yet the pharisees who made slaves and set burdens upon men they where unwilling to carry where considered Holy Men.

I have nothing to boast of save Jesus Christ crucified.

 

[brakelite]

No it isnt, I have no problems. God does, we certainly could not do anything with out Him, as for obedience, that is what Faith is, when we walk in faith we walk in obedience because Faith says, " I believe you God". God set out to change the inward man, but man runs around trying to clean the outside. As for Martyrs, was it the outside you looked at or the inside, we see someone doing some good work and proclaim them as christians yet that very work they do may be simply out of trying to please God, so many have dies in the name of Jesus and God and called martyrs, when all they where doing is through selfishness , as Christ put it.

Joh 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
Joh 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

The devil comes as an angel of light, , men see what they perceive as good and are deceived.

Jesus came and did everything out of Love and was considered to have a devil, yet the pharisees who made slaves and set burdens upon men they where unwilling to carry where considered Holy Men.

I have nothing to boast of save Jesus Christ crucified.

Then it is eminently likely that if throughout your life, your "belief" is all you have, then persecution for you will be a very rare commodity. The apostles were all persecuted, not because they simply believed, but because they acted out that faith through obedience to the commandments...through sharing the gospel...through living righteous lives which was an open rebuke to the wicked. The very first martyr, Stephen, a case in point.

 

[mjrhealth]

Then it is eminently likely that if throughout your life, your "belief" is all you have, then persecution for you will be a very rare commodity. The apostles were all persecuted, not because they simply believed, but because they acted out that faith through obedience to the commandments...through sharing the gospel...through living righteous lives which was an open rebuke to the wicked. The very first martyr, Stephen, a case in point.

Amen, and for them it was not a burden, you should ask them...

2Ti_1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

2Co 11:28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.
2Co 11:29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?
2Co 11:30 If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.
2Co 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not

Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

It is enough.

 

[brakelite]

Amen, and for them it was not a burden, you should ask them...

2Ti_1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

2Co 11:28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.
2Co 11:29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?
2Co 11:30 If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.
2Co 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not

Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

It is enough.

I didn't say it was a burden, at least in the sense that it is a difficult or unwelcome task. But it was the cross that they bore...that cross was the price they paid for at the cost of their lives. Though they may have welcomed the "cup they each had to drink", no-one can claim they did not suffer. Paul hurt when he was scourged...stoned...left for dead...yes, Christ enabled him to bear that cross otherwise he wouldn't have remained faithful. That sharing is Christ's strength to "endure the shame", in the believer. But the suffering and pain, the shedding of all selfish motives and inclinations, is a price we must all pay...it is the essence of 'losing our lives in order to save them'. Such things we are called to do in the name of Christ...our 'works' etc, our commandment keeping, our call to holiness, are not works we do in order to be saved. Nevertheless they are essential to living such a life as to bring glory to God...reflecting His character and nature to the world, and living the Christlike life that draws people to Him. And doing such is a commandment. Not doing so because of fear one is 'working his way to heaven' needs to be revised.

 

[mjrhealth]

You are completely missing the point. When a man picks up his cross, he is hung up on it and He dies. And so it was for all His disciples when the where baptized in the Holy Spirit, raised up into the newness of His life, the cross like the law kills people, if you are still carrying you cross than you have not yet died to self. Once you do, the cross will no longer be your focus because you eyes will be set as flint upon Christ, the narrow way that leads to life in Him.

And I have no price to pay, Jesus paid the price in full for all of us.

As stated before, obedience is faith as like Abraham,

Gal_3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

and isnt that what this is all about.

 

[brakelite]

As stated before, obedience is faith as like Abraham,

Gal_3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

and isnt that what this is all about.

No. Because if Abraham had only believed, he would still be in Ur of the Chaldees and there wouldn't have been a Messiah for us to cleave to. And our death comes at baptism...not as a result of our being attached to the cross. the cross we are called to carry is just that...to carry. Not to die on. We pick up our cross after baptism...it is our life's work to walk the way of the cross...as Christ did after His baptism. In order to physically die on the cross, even Jesus had to die to self. It is the death to self that is the beginning of your walk with Christ...not the end.

 

[justbyfaith]

As i have said before, if you are still carrying your cross, than you have not died to self, nor put away that old man, nor raised up into the newness of the life that He gives all men who die with Him.

the cross like the law kills people, if you are still carrying you cross than you have not yet died to self.

Jesus said to take up our cross daily and follow Him, denying self. Also, Paul said, I die daily.

And to me, that means that tomorrow when I get up, it is another day and I am to die to self that day. This is salvation for me from day to day (2 Corinthians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 15:31)

If I say, "I am already dead, I do not need to die to self"...I could be lying to myself, telling myself that the requirement is not there, and that I do not need to die to myself that day.

If I were already dead to self, I would not be opposed to living a life that is dead to self, I would not be opposed to taking up my cross today and following Him; because I cannot die any more than I have already died and therefore I would not recognize the cost as being costly; and therefore I would gladly take up my cross and die to self in the sense that I would not live for myself since the "I" in ego is already dead.

But the flesh has a tendency to resurrect itself when we put it to death; and therefore each new day we are called upon by the Lord to "mortify the deeds of the body" all over again.

And again, to live according to the Lord's love means that I put myself last. I put Jesus first and others second. This is the recipe for true JOY--Jesus, Others, You. This is the cross that the Lord has given to every true believer that is born of Him. And as did the Lord, we endure the cross that is given to us for the joy that is set before us.

The fruit of the Spirit it love, joy, peace, etc. ...and therefore when we have the love of God and live according to it, joy and peace are sure to follow, as the other eight fruits of the Spirit are the outworking of the first...love.

And love by nature puts the other person first ahead of self; and this is the Cross that Jesus has called each one of us to carry as those who have received His love into our hearts.

That is all Jesus means by His words, "Take up your cross and follow me..." that we are to simply be unselfish in our demeanor and behaviour...it all boils down to love.

 

[justbyfaith]

Most people go by the acronym YO--You and then Others, and Jesus is left entirely out of the picture.

 

[Zachary]

“If anyone does not love the Lord, that person is cursed.” (1 Corinthians 16:22)

“If you love Me, obey My commandments.” (John 14:15)

“Those who accept My commandments and obey them are
the ones who love Me … All who love Me will do what I say.
Anyone who doesn’t love Me will not obey Me.” (John 14:21-24)

“When you obey My commandments, you remain in My love” (John 15:10)

“You are My friends, if you do what I command.” (John 15:14)

“We can be sure we know Him, if we obey His commandments” (1 John 2:3)

“He who keeps His commandments abides in Him and He in him” (1 John 3:24)

“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love” (1 John 3:24)

“Loving God means keeping His commandments” (1 John 5:3)

“Love means doing what God has commanded us” (2 John 6)

Even though OT people had none of our advantages,
God said He would show mercy
“to those who love Me and keep My commandments” (Exodus 20:6)

 

[Zachary]

Salvation is grace by faith, how many times must it be repeated.

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves;
it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9)

First, it's all by grace ... and we're not talking about who gets it or why, right?

Second, it's through faith ... but, how long does this faith have to last?
Momentarily? ... IMO, that would be ridiculous.
No, according to the NT, this faith must endure until the end of one's life.
(This could take another whole thread to prove to you.)

Third, it's a gift from God ... the whole deal is a gift from God:
God's grace, your faith, God's gift, etc. etc.
But, only certain people get this gift, right? The question is: who?
Can this very special and unique gift
(not to be confused with much less important gifts) be taken back?
Yes, and this could take another whole thread to prove to you.

Fourth, it's not of works ... and guess what, we agree on this one!
.

 

[Zachary]

farouk: Eternal security does not depend on our efforts ...
JBF: No one is saying otherwise.

Really? ... I am!
Salvation is a process in which I am deeply involved!

My salvation is a co-operation between God and me!
The new covenant is a covenant between 2 parties: God and me!
Both parties have a part to play in my salvation!
For one thing, why do you think I have a God-given free-will?
And why do you think my faith, etc. is (and will be) tested?
As for my part in my salvation, please read the NT.

P.S. -- Just because your pastor does NOT teach you the truth
does NOT mean that you are NOT responsible for your salvation.
(Sorry for all the NOTs.)
C'mon, let's get a NT, and read it, and understand it.
IF you have the Holy Spirit, this should be possible for you!
... speaking to everyone, not just to just, i.e. the JBF.

Another P.S. -- Salvation is attained by following Jesus
and the Holy Spirit (who was sent to lead us into all truth).

 

[justbyfaith]

Really? ... I am!
Salvation is a process in which I am deeply involved!

My part in salvation has to do with surrender rather than self-effort. And this is not anything that I muster up in the power of my flesh but is the response of faith that I have towards the word of the Lord...it is receiving the word of the Lord rather than rejecting it.

 

[justbyfaith]

Can this very special and unique gift
(not to be confused with much less important gifts) be taken back?
Yes, and this could take another whole thread to prove to you.

If you ever proved it to be true (I am assuming the gift that you are speaking of is salvation), you would be proving the scriptures to be incorrect. For it is written, that the gifts and the calling of God are without repentance (irrevocable).

Salvation is a gift (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 6:23).

 

[bbyrd009]

The point would make about this is that if anyone knows that they are forgiven through Jesus' death on the Cross, they will love Jesus much (Luke 7:36-50, 1 John 4:19, Romans 5:5).

so then "knowing" that God has forgiven you = you will automatically become less self-centered and ego-driven? Wadr this snippet of yours that i am currently replying to makes what you say a lie all by itself imo, even though i realize that you are not meaning to be lying or anything. See bc i have a point to make here, that you have now superseded with what you believe is an over-arching point, right, that being "anyone and everyone who knows that they are forgiven would only naturally love God back."

which is complete horse-puckey of course, hopefully someone else has already DQed the arg so i don't have to, and not denying that there is a "we" that loves Him bc He first loved us, ok, but you are now denying another Scriptural principle, and testifying of yourself, imo. So lemme marinate on this and i'll get back to you, meanwhile lemme say that i am more likely to try and take advantage of any forgiveness sent my way, and when i hear "anyone who knows they are forgiven of so much would of course automatically love back" my BS meter pegs.

Oh duh, there is no confession in there anywhere, see, idc how much i am forgiven of stuff that i don't feel was a sin iow

So then, knowing that I am once saved always saved, does not produce in me that attitude that you speak of, "I'll just pass on the picking up the cross thing..." I pick up my cross and follow Him because He has apprehended me and placed His love in my heart...which means that forevermore I will put myself last...which is what it means to me that I should pick up my cross daily and follow Him.

hilarious, ty. no offense but this is what tares look like ok

"i can make flowery pious-sounding statements about my attitude all day long and they will be true bc i said them so everyone else will of course automatically know them to be Absolute Truth, like i do."

i know this is kind of harsh ok, and i should say for the record here that this might not describe you at all, you might just be so naive and innocent that what you say has become true again, however your attitude @ other posts...suggests otherwise, ok, which don't get me wrong that's totally pot/kettle prolly, not saying otherwise, but neither one of us is Amadeus, right