Again, what you want to call a buzz, God calls edification. If you are observing a false gift, then it is just a false gift. The real gift is edification for the one with the gift.
Stranger
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Again, what you want to call a buzz, God calls edification. If you are observing a false gift, then it is just a false gift. The real gift is edification for the one with the gift.
Stranger
There is not more than one side to the truth. Especially when you are presenting opposite of the truth.
Stranger
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Are you saying that all Charismatics are adulterers, murderers, liars and just plain wicked? Because those are the type of people Jesus is talking about. As far as the mention of gifts, that is just for emphasis. IOW, it doesn't matter how gifted you are, if you continue sinning, you are damned. Look at the rest of the chapter. It is on lack of fruit.
We prove it by Scripture. And your use of Scripture has found you lying and being deceptive. You have not and cannot prove any cessation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit by the Scripture.
Stranger
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Matthew 7:21–23) (KJV 1900)
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Why are you posting the scripture that we are talking about? I know the scripture. You haven't answered my question. What do you believe is meant by tongues being a sign to the unbeliever.
But we do not know if our interpretation is lop sided or not until we consider other views.
Other Tongues was a sign of judgment against Israel. Looming in 65-70 AD.
“The Lord shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;” (Deuteronomy 28:49) (KJV 1900)
“Lo, I will bring a nation upon you from far, O house of Israel, saith the Lord: it is a mighty nation, it is an ancient nation, a nation whose language thou knowest not, neither understandest what they say.” (Jeremiah 5:15) (KJV 1900)
“For with stammering lips and another tongue Will he speak to this people.” (Isaiah 28:11) (KJV 1900)
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
What do the Greeks in Corinth speaking in tongues have to do with Israel? That is not a direct correlation as you wrongly suppose, even though your theory didn't originate with you, but points to the TYPE of SIGN tongues is. So try again.
(I'm going to reanswer a previous post of yours already answered, as I have more to say.)
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
You are just as wrong this time, as you were the last time and I proved it. You just don't believe scripture when it is presented on a silver platter.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
This is the post I want to re-answer.
You say mainline churches do not match the description because of gifts, but I say Reformation false doctrine matches the most. The verse has nothing to do with gifts, but because of this quote from Luther: "No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day." That message from Luther is death to the hearer if swallowed. It is poison. "And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’" Luther said the opposite of truth. All through the Bible, sin is the only thing that CAN separate us from God.
"For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." These are all outside. But sin is inside.
That means this verse has to do with lawlessness - in other words, SIN! Otherwise, Jesus would have said something about the use of gifts, not lawlessness. 1 John 3:4 Sin is lawlessness. There are no scriptures about false gifts in the church, except in the Old Testament regarding the occult. If that were possible, there would have been much to say about it than Cessationist drivel. I remember starting to read a book by a popular Cessationist pastor out of California called "Strange Fire" and I only got through two pages and the demonic presence in that book made me stop reading. It was so dark, and yet people with no discernment lap it up to justify their own lack of the gifts of the Spirit, let alone answered prayer.
Revelation 3: (The church age of the Reformation)
“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,
‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. 4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
6 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’
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All I need to know of your view is that it is a lie. If you know the truth, you will know the lie. I will consider your view. I will consider it a lie.
Stranger
In His foreknowledge God knew that Israel would -- by and large -- be unbelieving and disobedient, even though they had every material and spiritual privilege. They would always seek after signs, instead of simply believing God, and that is exactly what Christ told His unbelieving enemies.
Therefore God designed things in such a way that His apostles and Christ's disciples would speak foreign languages (tongues = languages) SUPERNATURALLY -- by the power of the Holy Spirit, on the day of Pentecost. This would be a sign to all the thousands of Jews gathered from around the Roman Empire in Jerusalem on that day. And thus the prophecy that signs would for the unbelieving Jews was fulfilled and over 3,000 were saved (many thousands more later).
The Jews also regarded Gentiles as unclean dogs, therefore when the Gentiles gathered in the house of Cornelius believed the Gospel and spoke in tongues, that was again a sign to the skeptical Jews accompanying Peter (and even Peter himself) that God was using the Gospel to bring salvation to the Gentiles.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
So what do you believe was the purpose of the Greek Corinthians to speak in tongues with no Jews around?
You have simply assumed that the Church at Corinth was purely Greek. But that was not the case. Here is the evidence that there were both Jews and Greeks in the Corinthian church, and it actually began in a Jewish synagogue:
ACTS 18
1 After these things Paul departed from Athens, and came to Corinth;
2 And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome), and came unto them.
3 And because he was of the same craft, he abode with them, and wrought: for by their occupation they were tentmakers.
4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
5 And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ.
6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.
7 And he departed thence, and entered into a certain man's house, named Justus, [probably a Greek proselyte, or a Jew with a Roman name] one that worshipped God, whose house joined hard to the synagogue.
8 And Crispus, [a Jew with a Roman name] the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.
9 Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace:
10 For I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee: for I have much people in this city.
11 And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.
Thanks. Yeah it is the inevitable depressive episode following a roughly 3 week manic bender. The depletion of serotonin, dopamine and other neurotransmitters.
The good news from all of this is that the high wasn't as high with my new vegan habits and I see now the low is not nearly as bad as before. The high use to be more distinguishable and so I could recognize my state much more easily. The resulting lows could last for weeks instead of a day or so this time. Progress!
I appreciate the encouragement, but on this subject I must admit to having some conflicting thoughts when I see the somewhat abysmal record of local congregations. In a non manic state I would have just left it alone. What I posted was fair game for sure. Just not my final, or even usual, thinking.
Yes, I have long heard that scripture used to support OSAS. But also "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ" Phil 1:6
This is why I modified my thinking to OSASIS. 'Once Saved, Always Saved, IF Saved'
But if we are not eternally secure then I have trouble with these passages taken as a whole...
Great White Throne Judgment
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
So this would be unbelievers and, I guess, believers who fell back to Perdition?
Judgment Seat of Christ
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
These are believers who did endure to the end.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Who are these people?
