Apostasy

[Ritajanice]

I have to say @amigo de christo ..now that I’ve got to know you...and I’m not flattering you....it’s nice to talk to a mature believer in Christ.....it brings out the best in me.

I hate myself not literally...when I am immature.but, I am growing in Jesus maturity ,Praise God.

 

[amigo de christo]

I’m not really interested if you think I’m using God’s word incorrectly....only God can speak to my spirit...as I have a living relationship with him through the Holy Spirit.

I understand exactly what he is saying, when he says .

Flesh gives birth to Flesh.

Spirit gives birth to Spirit.

Look it up yourself....

I am Born Again and His Holy Spirit gave birth to my spirit and brought me Alive in Christ....all supernatural power of God through the Spirit.

Praise You Father God!!

surface value this is very true .
But now allow me some questions .
Does the JESUS we follow honor any sins . Does it preach about money money money
Does our Jesus accept and honor Homosexuality , gay marraige .
DOES our JESUS over look sins . Does our JESUS say things like , HEY GOD IS LOVE , which is true ,
but then uses that love to say things like other religoins are finding their own way to GOD
And that all we need to do is have love .
IF SO , IT AINT JESUS . JESUS would never support sin , HE always corrected error too .
SO if our JESUS calls those who correct the church , JUDGERS and haters , IT AINT JESUS .
Take a good look at JESUS in the bible , then later at paul , at james , at jude , at peter , at john
THEY corrected . THEY were quick to correct error and sin within the church .
Let me give you a example or two of them
THEN i will show you how our generation CONTRADICTS THE HECK OUT OF THE TRUE apostles .
When paul was writing to timothy
HE said those sin rebuke before all that OTHERS MAY FEAR .
TODAY , TODAY the message has become , HEY those who sin , DONT JUDGE , DONT JUDGE , DONT JUDGE
DONT JUDGE hey we all sinners . just hug them to GOD . BIG MISTAKE . cause once leaven sets in
IT BRINGS ONLY MORE ERROR and MORE LEAVEN .
OR how about when paul was writing to titus . HE even said REBUKE THEM SHARPLY . SHARPLY that they be SOUND in the FAITH .
YET today i hear false lovey do preachers talking NOTHING about having to have faith IN JESUS CHRIST
rather its okay if one dont so long as they love . WE GOT massive problems .
Worse still is the fact that most dont even know what TRUE BELIEF , TRUE FAITH EVEN ENTAILS anymore .
THEY Think lip service is all that mattered . NOT TRUE if WE read what JESUS wrote , then later what james wrote
THEN also what paul wrote .
THE BELEIF , the FAITH IS DEAD , DEAD if one is not a hearer and a doer .
JESUS said it first . ANY who comes TO ME and hears my sayings YET DOES NOT DO THEM
GOT ZERO FOUNDATION .
PAUL even confirms it to timothy .
These who provide not , A DOING ACTION , for their own and specially for those of their own household
has denied what , THE FAITH and are worse than an infidel . MANY are not follow JESUS because many have not been born again
THEY THINK they have been , but what has really occured is their pastor led them to another jesus . ONE which will not
cannot and shall not save them .

 

[Ritajanice]

surface value this is very true .
But now allow me some questions .
Does the JESUS we follow honor any sins . Does it preach about money money money
Does our Jesus accept and honor Homosexuality , gay marraige .
DOES our JESUS over look sins . Does our JESUS say things like , HEY GOD IS LOVE , which is true ,
but then uses that love to say things like other religoins are finding their own way to GOD
And that all we need to do is have love .
IF SO , IT AINT JESUS . JESUS would never support sin , HE always corrected error too .
SO if our JESUS calls those who correct the church , JUDGERS and haters , IT AINT JESUS .
Take a good look at JESUS in the bible , then later at paul , at james , at jude , at peter , at john
THEY corrected . THEY were quick to correct error and sin within the church .
Let me give you a example or two of them
THEN i will show you how our generation CONTRADICTS THE HECK OUT OF THE TRUE apostles .
When paul was writing to timothy
HE said those sin rebuke before all that OTHERS MAY FEAR .
TODAY , TODAY the message has become , HEY those who sin , DONT JUDGE , DONT JUDGE , DONT JUDGE
DONT JUDGE hey we all sinners . just hug them to GOD . BIG MISTAKE . cause once leaven sets in
IT BRINGS ONLY MORE ERROR and MORE LEAVEN .
OR how about when paul was writing to titus . HE even said REBUKE THEM SHARPLY . SHARPLY that they be SOUND in the FAITH .
YET today i hear false lovey do preachers talking NOTHING about having to have faith IN JESUS CHRIST
rather its okay if one dont so long as they love . WE GOT massive problems .
Worse still is the fact that most dont even know what TRUE BELIEF , TRUE FAITH EVEN ENTAILS anymore .
THEY Think lip service is all that mattered . NOT TRUE if WE read what JESUS wrote , then later what james wrote
THEN also what paul wrote .
THE BELEIF , the FAITH IS DEAD , DEAD if one is not a hearer and a doer .
JESUS said it first . ANY who comes TO ME and hears my sayings YET DOES NOT DO THEM
GOT ZERO FOUNDATION .
PAUL even confirms it to timothy .
These who provide not , A DOING ACTION , for their own and specially for those of their own household
has denied what , THE FAITH and are worse than an infidel . MANY are not follow JESUS because many have not been born again
THEY THINK they have been , but what has really occured is their pastor led them to another jesus . ONE which will not
cannot and shall not save them .

Amen!..agreed.

 

[amigo de christo]

Being Born Again did not come about by reading Romans 6...for me....so don’t preach that is the only way to be Born Again because it’s not..utter nonsense.

It’s comes about by being supernaturally birthed in the Spirit....which is like the wind.

supernatually birthed by the SPIRIT . how true that is .
SO now for a friendly reminder . THE SPIRIT IS TRUTH . the SPIRIT would testify OF JESUS CHRIST .
Be encouraged my friend . But the spirit i see many following sure seems to contradict THE TRUTH .
And that is not a good sign at all . Their spirit seems to testify of this love that accepts and calls sins good
SOMETHING GOD WOULD NEVER DO . THUS Something THE SPIRIT Would never do .
This other spirit sure seems to be big on all religoins serving the SAME GOD ,
and just having love and being one . THAT AGAIN is not coming from the SPIRIT at all .
THE SPIRIT would never point us to our own version of love and away from the DIRE NEED to have bELIEVED ON JESUS CHRIST .
THIER love is false . LOVE rejoices IN TRUTH . JESUS IS THE TRUTH . HIS EVERY WORD IS TRUTH .
As are the scriptures . So the question now is , DO WE LOVE the TRUTH IN THE SCRIPTURES
OR do we omit some of it and say things like , OH THAT DONT APPLY TO US
Lambs love THE TRUTH because GOD has poured THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH , OF HIM upon our hearts . Be encouraged sister .

 

[lforrest]

Again Please read Romans 6 for Paul says it is a reality not a symbolism Paul Said God is doing the work of transformation not symbolizing but real time work

Romans 6 is where I pulled my very clear statement from. One need only read the scripture and take it to mean what it says. Were you being disagreeable for no good reason?

I will elaborate: We are baptised into Christ's death symbolically because we can't literally die with him at the cross. It represents laying down our will. Christ also said those who believe will never die, so a rite involving death must be symbolic.

Christ's victory over death at the resurrection is also ours now as well. His resurrection two thousand years ago is what saves us now.

How does it save us now? Through the Holy Spirit living in us and giving us access to the life giving waters flowing from the throne of God. Something that is not symbolic, but spiritual reality.

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen!..agreed.

To the trenches my friend. The one true and only gospel is under attack in these days more than ever .
As for lambs WE POINT only TO CHRIST JESUS . Now raise those hands and let the Glorious LORD be praised and thanked ,
thanked and praised .

 

[David in NJ]

Apostasy
One of the greatest mysteries in life is how anyone could come to a knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ and then depart from Him. Judas is the classic example of an apostate - one who abandons the faith he once held. Judas walked and lived with the Son of God for over three years, a royal privilege granted to only 11 other men. Yet after witnessing the Messiah's sinless life, seeing His miracles, experiencing His divine power and hearing His profound wisdom, Judas betrayed Him. It was during the celebration of the Passover meal that Judas deliberately defected from the faith of the apostles and sealed his eternal destiny in the lake of fire (Mat. 26:24-25).

Two Streams of Christianity

Many others have departed from the faith since that fateful night. The apostle John wrote about apostates who "went out from us" because "they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us" (1 John 2:18). Most apostates never reject the Christian faith completely, they fall away to a counterfeit form of Christianity. It is for this reason we have seen two streams of Christianity operating side-by-side for 2000 years.

The Apostolic Church

One stream is the apostolic church, founded by the Lord Jesus who is the Master Builder. It includes only the few who have entered through the narrow gate (Mat. 7:13). They have been sanctified by the truth and born of the Spirit. This Spirit of Promise seals and indwells each member, thus guaranteeing their eternal inheritance (Eph. 1:13-14). This church will be persecuted, hated and despised, but will continue holding to apostolic faith until Jesus returns to take it to heaven as His bride. The gates of hell shall not prevail against this church (Mat. 16:18).

The Apostate Church

The other stream is an apostate church made up of those who profess Christ but are spiritually dead. They believe a distorted Gospel, follow another spirit and reject the faith of the apostles (1 Tim. 4:1). This church is being built by men who ignore the Master Builder's blueprint and instead follow their own methods and movements. Maligning the way of truth, they seduce many with their sensuality (2 Pet. 2:2). Apostates will increase in number and grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived, until the Day of our Lord (2 Tim. 3:3). These "professing" Christians will not endure sound doctrine. Instead they will turn away from the truth and turn to teachers who tickle their ears with messages of self esteem (2 Tim. 4:3-4). Paul called these teachers "grievous wolves" who enter the church speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them (Acts 20:29-30). It is important to note that all apostates are unbelievers but not all un- believers are apostates.

The Primary Cause of Apostasy

The major cause of apostasy can be traced to various spiritual influences that include demonic deceptions and divine judgments. The "father of lies" has been seducing the visible church into an ecumenical spirituality in an attempt to unite the religions of the world. Driven by his desire to be worshipped as god, he will continue to attack God's Word with an unrestrained determination. Post- modern philosophy is currently his most effective tool. Church leaders who are caught up in this movement are saying we cannot know absolute truth. And since we cannot know absolute truth, we cannot be dogmatic about doctrine or moral standards. They say dogmatic preaching must give way to dialogue between people of all faiths in order to seek unity for common goals.

Divine judgment is also a cause for apostasy. Those who refuse to love and believe the truth for salvation will be sent a deluding influence so they might believe what is false and be judged (2 Thes. 2:9-12 ). A divine judgment in the form of moral apostasy is also given to those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness. By refusing to acknowledge God any longer, He gives them over to depraved minds and degrading passions for people of the same sex (Rom. 1:18-32).

The Step-by-Step Drift into Apostasy

Step One: God's word is rejected as the supreme authority for faith and practice. This creates uncertainty over whether to follow Jesus and His Word or the traditions and movements of men. Double mindedness causes confusion and divided loyalties. The power of the Gospel is diluted by compromise. Biblical evangelism is replaced by "easy believism" or sacramental salvation. Scripture is cited only for selfish ambition, result- ing in little or no discernment. People are given what they want instead of what they need. Their spurious faith is exposed when trials and temptations arise. Biblical warnings about false teachers are ignored.

Step Two: Scripture is twisted and distorted for power, control and riches. Truth is deter- mined by subjective personal experiences rather than the objective Word of God. Biblical ignorance provides fertile ground for false teachers. "Infallible" men claim to be successors of the apostles. Doctrinal error and sin are tolerated. Worldliness and ungodly influences are present. Hearts are unresponsive to the Holy Spirit. God is honored with lips but hearts are far from Him. Love for God grows cold. Those who contend for the faith are asked to leave. Satan sows his tares in the church with little or no resistance.

Step Three: Bible teaching is replaced by stories and myths. Doctrinal error is em- braced. Programs and entertainment have forced Jesus out of the church. A form of godliness exists but it is void of power. Deception abounds because there is a failure to love the truth. A stubborn refusal to accept correction is present. Hearts have be- come hardened. The devil is no longer resisted. Blatantly immoral lifestyles are present and accepted.

Step Four: Jesus Christ and His Gospel are totally rejected. Those who embrace truth are an anathema and asked to leave. Grace is turned into a license to sin. The holy things of God are mocked. Deception is full-blown. Lying signs and wonders are promoted as messages from God. Doctrines of demons are followed. Idolatry and prayers to the dead are encouraged. The church's lamp stand has been removed and a certain terrifying judgement is now unavoidable.

Past and Future Apostasy

Biblical history confirms there have always been apostate churches like the one at Laodicea (Rev. 3:14-22) as well as individual apostates (Heb.10:26-31). However, "the apostasy" will reach its prophetic peak just prior to the Day of our Lord (2 Thes. 2:3). Paul's use of the definite article suggests that the downward spiral into apostasy will be culminated by one identifiable act. It will occur when the "man of lawlessness is revealed." This "son of destruction, who op- poses and exalts himself above every so- called god or object of worship...takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God (2 Thes. 3:3-4). This apostasy will be a blasphemous act of unprecedented magnitude by a demonically influenced world leader. This "second Judas" will desecrate the temple by declaring himself to be God thus committing the abomination of desolation. The "first Judas" desecrated the temple with the money he received by betraying the Son of God (Mat. 27:5).

The Lord Jesus warned us the end times would be marked by great deception, such that the world has never known (Mat. 24). The spiritual deception which covers the earth will be so prevalent that Jesus asked the question: "When the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8). This fatal deception will cause more churches, denominations, seminaries and individuals to drift into apostasy unless biblical warnings are heeded. Each professing Christian's faith will be constantly tested as more seducing spirits invade the church.

What Are Believers To Do?

1) Pray that we will be strong in the Lord as we put on the full armor of God. Recognize we are in an intense battle for truth against the schemes of the devil and the wicked forces of darkness (Eph. 6:10-12).




Two Streams of Christianity

Born Again Christians

♦ Contend for the God-given faith of the apostles (Jude 3)

♦ Exalt Jesus Christ as the only Master, Lord and Head of the Church (Eph. 1:22)

♦ Possessors of Christ, made alive by the Spirit (Rom. 8:10-11)

♦ Are devoted to apostolic teaching and sound doctrine (Acts 2:42)

♦ Proclaim salvation by grace alone through what God has done in Christ (Rom. 3:24-26; 11:6)

♦ Receive grace and turn from ungodliness and worldly desires (Titus 2:11-12)

♦ Children of God called out of the world and enrolled in heaven (2Tim.3:12; Heb.12:23)

♦ Know God and do good works prepared by Him (Eph. 2:9)

Apostates

♦ Have deliberately departed from the apostles' faith (1 John 2:19)

♦ Deny Jesus Christ as the only Master, Lord and Head of the Church (Jude 4)

♦ Professors of Christ, twice dead (Mat. 7:22; Jude 12)

♦ Introduce destructive heresies and do not endure sound doctrine (2 Tim. 4:3; 2 Pet. 2:1)

♦ Deceive people with a “salvation" by grace plus what man must do for God (Gal. 1:6-9)

♦ Turn the grace of our God into licentiousness (Jude 4)

♦ Godless people blinded by the prince of the world and condemned (2 Cor.4:4; Jude4)

♦ Profess to know God, but deny Him by their deeds (Titus1:16)

Excellent - Thank You

 

[Ritajanice]

A true Born Again can never depart from the Spirit..that is also God’s word...I must look for that scripture.

We have been birthed in the Spirit and that lasts for all of eternity.....we have nowhere to go...as were Born Again and belong to God, we+are HIS.

 

[Hepzibah]

This a very interesting although long talk on Holy Baptism by Gregory Nazianzen 381. Bear in mind that at that time, water baptism in Eastern Orthodoxy, was followed by the laying on of hands by the bishop for the baptism of the Spirit, so they were both expected to happen at the same time. He describes how there are three stages in the believers life and Illumination. Just ignore the bit about infant baptism. I heard it was just to welcome the infant into the church.

CHURCH FATHERS: Oration 40 (Gregory Nazianzen)

Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.

www.newadvent.org

You may notice that he calls the Baptism, salvation. Maybe it will be more acceptable to think of 'full' salvation. Lets not grieve over terms.

 

[amigo de christo]

Excellent - Thank You

Jesus knew exactly What judas was when he chose Judas .
The man held the bag and kept part of the monies that was put therein .
The heart of JUDAS was not right from the start . Yet one of you is a devil .
John once wrote if they come out from amongst us they were never TRULY of us .
And no , i do not teach OSAS . Cause many in the OSAS camp teach things that ought not to have been taught .
Paul was saved . Paul had great trust and faith in JESUS CHRIST
and paul also reminded the church of the dire need to CONTINUE In CHRIST to the end .
See Osas omits some serious reminders that are for the actual good of the saved born again .
We need to behold all warnings , all promises , EVER word of the LORD .
EVEN JESUS reminded His own TAKE HEED that no man decieve you and that he who endures to the end the same shall be saved .
WE need them reminders . But if one does come out they were never TRULY of us . THEY might think they were
but they were NOT . The Holy GOD inspired them words in the bible . We need them for our meat .
And we need to heed and remember every warning as well . IT all works to the good of the hearer and the doer
to HE WHO FOLLOWS CHRIST .
The SPIRIT is our guide and it will also unction us and remind us . EVERY WORD of the LORD is for our good .
The warnings , ALLL of it .

 

[Ritajanice]

◄ Acts 2:23 ►

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. New Living Translation But God knew what would happen, and his prearranged plan was carried out when Jesus was betrayed. With the help of lawless Gentiles, you nailed him to a cross and killed him. English Standard Version this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. Berean Standard Bible He was delivered up by God’s set plan and foreknowledge, and you, by the hands of the lawless, put Him to death by nailing Him to the cross. Berean Literal Bible Him delivered up by the determinate plan and foreknowledge of God, you put to death, having crucified Him by lawless hands, King James Bible Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

 

[amigo de christo]

​

◄ Acts 2:23 ►

​

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. New Living Translation But God knew what would happen, and his prearranged plan was carried out when Jesus was betrayed. With the help of lawless Gentiles, you nailed him to a cross and killed him. English Standard Version this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. Berean Standard Bible He was delivered up by God’s set plan and foreknowledge, and you, by the hands of the lawless, put Him to death by nailing Him to the cross. Berean Literal Bible Him delivered up by the determinate plan and foreknowledge of God, you put to death, having crucified Him by lawless hands, King James Bible Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

The GLORIOUS KING JESUS CHRIST is our hope and our salvation . TO the trenches and let all point to HE alone for salvation .
Reminding all that has breath That salvation is found in HE alone and in no other . To believe on HIM
to learn sound biblical doctrine whereby believers will grow wise unto salvation through FAITH in CHRIST JESUS .
ITS an all out war in this final hour for the souls of men . The dragon and his followers are taking no time off
taking souls captive to a lie . The lambs will take no time off POINTING TO HE ALONE WHO IS ABLE TO SAVE
and reminding about all sound doctrine . THIS IS the last hour in the great war for the souls of men .
JESUS HAS THE VICTORY and in HIM our Faith in HIM we have overcome the wicked one . Endure faithful to the end my dear friend .
And let all that draws breath praise and thank the LORD .

 

[Godslittleservant]

Romans 6 is where I pulled my very clear statement from. One need only read the scripture and take it to mean what it says. Were you being disagreeable for no good reason?

I will elaborate: We are baptised into Christ's death symboliChrist also said those who believe will never die, so a rite involving death must be symbolic.Christ's victory over death at the resurrection is also ours now as well. His resurrectcally because we can't literally die with him at the cross. It represents laying down our will. ion two thousand years ago is what saves us now.

How does it save us now? Through the Holy Spirit living in us and giving us access to the life giving waters flowing from the throne of God. Something that is not symbolic, but spiritual reality.

First we are already dead in sin we do not die in Romans six but are already dead in sin and are buried as Christ as buried so are we then GOD raises up from the grave just as he did Christ and we are alive in Christ that is what Paul said anyway. Paul said it was a reality that God was doing spiritual work in transforming us from dead in our sin to alive in Christ I cannot understand how anyone can take the glory away from God and say it is only symbolic Give god the glory so no we do not literally die at the cross we are dead before we get there

You say it represents us laying down our will but I do not find that in Romans 6 what I read is it is God raising us to a newness in life we are being born again from dead to sin to alive in Christ

 

[David in NJ]

First we are already dead in sin we do not die in Romans six but are already dead in sin and are buried as Christ as buried so are we then GOD raises up from the grave just as he did Christ and we are alive in Christ that is what Paul said anyway. Paul said it was a reality that God was doing spiritual work in transforming us from dead in our sin to alive in Christ I cannot understand how anyone can take the glory away from God and say it is only symbolic Give god the glory so no we do not literally die at the cross we are dead before we get there

You say it represents us laying down our will but I do not find that in Romans 6 what I read is it is God raising us to a newness in life we are being born again from dead to sin to alive in Christ

YES and NO

YES, we are buried with Christ in water baptism = How? = Are we literally buried for three days? = NO = symbolically = YES

Is God doing a actual spiritual renewal/revival in our lives? = YES = How? = In our spirit/soul thru the Spirit of Christ/Truth/Holy Spirit

Therefore, outwardly we, by faith, participate in a 'one-time' outward public declaration of our inward change by the working of the Spirit within our spirit = "that which is spirit is spirit"

If our physical bodies were being renewed unto God, why then do our physical bodies continue under the curse of death?
Answer: 1 Corinthians chapter 15

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Do this sound like "saved by grace?"

According to God's Word... we're not actually saved by grace alone because WE are called to obedience... to do more than just believe and become doers of God's Word. If we just hear and believe only without doing God's Word, we deceive our own selves. (James 1:21,22)

Jesus apparently expects His people to DO some stuff after getting born again.

Reckon Jesus didn't get the memo from the so called reformers that salvation is by faith only??? (see James 2:14-26)

The Lord says the following thru the Apostle James:

James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James 1:21,22
Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness (walking after the flesh – see Gal 6:7,8), and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Apparently one is justified by faith AND by works.... and the man that believes justification is by faith only is a "vain" man.

Sounds like either Jesus is wrong or the so called reformers are wrong since they teach an partial truth and leave the part out about works leaving the door open to sinful living (license to sin).

Martin Luther was a known drunk so I can see how he would want to leave the part about works out so he could continue drinking his beloved booze which is living in sin! (see 1 Corinthians 6:9-13)

Quite the quandary here... who shall we say is in error the Lord or the reformers??? That tis the question!