Understanding The HolySpirit

[stunnedbygrace]

It was not God.

Oh yes, it was definitely Him. He said: do you trust Me? Locutions have been somewhat rare, or not reported, but they do happen sometimes. Teresa of Avila spoke of them. So did john of the cross.

 

[101G]

this is how false doctrine get started. many Assume that it's God voice, because it said, "This is my beloved son". ok, scripture,
Genesis 22:10 "And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.

Genesis 22:11 "And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.

Genesis 22:12 "And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

wait, "thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me". ME? did not God tell Abraham to,
Genesis 22:2 "And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
but it was the angel of the Lord who spoke.

now let's examine the scriptures at the baptism of the Lord Jesus.
John 1:32 "And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

Matthew 3:16 "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Matthew 3:17 "And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Mark 1:10 "And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

Mark 1:11 "And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Luke 3:21 "Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,

Luke 3:22 "And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.


this is how false doctring get started, on Assumption: a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof
this is how false doctrine runs until the truth of scriptures exposes them.

 

[Dave L]

Oh yes, it was definitely Him. He said: do you trust Me? Locutions have been somewhat rare, or not reported, but they do happen sometimes. Teresa of Avila spoke of them. So did john of the cross.

This was probably your imagination. Think about it. When the apostles chose Matthias to replace Judas, they cast lots to know whom God would choose. If he didn't speak to them directly, and they were Prophets, how is it people think he speaks to them today?

 

[Dave L]

this is how false doctrine get started. many Assume that it's God voice, because it said, "This is my beloved son". ok, scripture,
Genesis 22:10 "And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.

Genesis 22:11 "And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.

Genesis 22:12 "And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

wait, "thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me". ME? did not God tell Abraham to,
Genesis 22:2 "And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
but it was the angel of the Lord who spoke.

now let's examine the scriptures at the baptism of the Lord Jesus.
John 1:32 "And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

Matthew 3:16 "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Matthew 3:17 "And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Mark 1:10 "And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

Mark 1:11 "And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Luke 3:21 "Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,

Luke 3:22 "And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.


this is how false doctring get started, on Assumption: a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof
this is how false doctrine runs until the truth of scriptures exposes them.

It still remains, The father said this is my beloved Son from heaven. The Holy Spirit descended like a Dove at the same time. While Jesus, the Son of God came up from the water. If we cannot trust your discernment in this simple illustration of the trinity, how can we take anything you say seriously?

 

[Dave L]

was it God's voice, do the scriptures here say it was God's Voice, scripture please

“And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” (Matthew 3:17) (KJV 1900)

Only the Father has a Son.

 

[soul man]

My impression is that people would prefer to walk by sight instead of faith. And these find stimuli in the world around them instead of through the Spirit within. They look at Physical Israel and tailor scripture to match their sight dependent walk. And many look for external manifestations of the Spirit and settle for anything suggesting it, even if man made. But the Spirit is Love and the inner witness is our personal assurance that we belong to Christ. And he gives us the fullness of the Holy Spirit and direction through his written word.

Well said Dave

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You are very wooden Dave. God spoke from a burning Bush, from the mouth of a donkey, through Jesus, as a voice from heaven that some heard but others said was only thunder. Yet Dave says God will never again speak in whatever way He darn well wants too, now or in the future!

I'm well aware of all the nonsense that goes on though.

 

[101G]

This was probably your imagination. Think about it. When the apostles chose Matthias to replace Judas, they cast lots to know whom God would choose. If he didn't speak to them directly, and they were Prophets, how is it people think he speaks to them today?

John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

and second ERROR on your Part. the apostle did not chose Matthias, the Lord already did.
Acts 1:22 "Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Acts 1:23 "And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

Acts 1:24 "And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

Acts 1:25 "That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

Acts 1:26 "And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

they didn't throw any bones on the ground to make a choice.... LOL. another lie of the devil.

notice it said, they "Appointed" two, to chose from. next they ordained or chose Matthias, let's see
"THEIR" lots. definition time. Lot, what do it means?
G2819 κλῆρος kleros (klee'-ros) n.
1. a lot (for drawing chances; usually a pebble or small stone with a distinct marking is used).
2. (by implication) an allotted portion (as if so secured).
3. (by extension, of people) the ones assigned by allotment into another's care (i.e. as a flock into a shepherd's care; by allotment of the shepherd to a post, and not of the individual sheep).
4. (especially, figuratively) an allotted heritage (from a father).
5. (figuratively, negatively) a small chance.
[probably from G2806 (through the idea of using bits of wood, etc., for the purpose)]
KJV: heritage, inheritance, lot, part

Assigned? yes, the first thing to notice they didn't cast anything. they "gave" their choice. lot here is choice. they had two to chose from. so a lot divide the two. just as it was The land of Canaan was divided by lot. and they didn't get on their knees and rolled any dice, or cast any bones either.

there is the inheritance by "LOT"

and there is the "ELECTION" by "LOT"

definition, It is accepted as democratic when public offices are allocated by lot; and as oligarchic when they are filled by election. In Athens, "democracy" (literally meaning rule by the people) was in opposition to those supporting a system of oligarchy (rule by a few).

 

[101G]

“And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” (Matthew 3:17) (KJV 1900)

Only the Father has a Son.

that's not the question, scripture that said it was God voice. I have proved that the angel of the Lord can speak for God from Heaven.. so that excuse want fly. scripture that says it was God voice who spoke at the baptism. no assumptions....

now speaking of Father and Son, was Paul Timothy, Father? not biologically. a Father can be expressed as the First, as Jabal was the Father of such that dwellet in tents.
Genesis 4:20 "And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.

so just because a title states Father, it don't men it have a son attached.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

John 15:26

26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

The HolySpirit is the comforter, Jesus, explaining to the disciples that when He left He would not leave them without a comforter.
He will be the Spirit of truth and He shall testify of me, John 16:13

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

I understand when the HolySpirit was poured out in the book of Acts it was quite amazing.
Just reading it thrills the believer beyond belief.
Through the years He has been made out to be something He is not.
The main ministry of the HolySpirit is that of a teacher.
For most, that simple ministry of the HolySpirit takes the wind out of their sails. They need more fire and cloven tongues to prove how God can use them.
Like they have a special calling, to their shagrin God is no respector of persons.
Simply put He does not get as exsited as much as we do when a celebrity or politician or king gets saved, it is all the same to Him. He does put much emphasis on a person's past, He is more interested in who and what you are today.
I know when I was involved in several different denominations, some had HolySpirit schools and meetings where they gave their ideas about the HolySpirit.
You say what is wrong with that, first it is not what Jesus said he would do when he came.
The HolySpirit needs to be taught but it must be in the context it was given.
My first sunday school class lesson after I got saved was on the HolySpirit. I didn't know a father from a son to a spirit, new to me but I was hungry. Our teacher was the associate pastor and very good teacher when I look back. I learned things that have stayed with me for all these years that have been invaluable. He gave us a paper for going through the class that I framed.
Has my understanding been perfect through the years, no, is it perfect now, no.
The point I'm trying to make is without your understanding the HolySpirit as your teacher you will never see Christ as your life.
We have the resurrected life of Jesus himself that dwells in every born again believer.
The HolySpirit is in the soul-mind where your understanding is, where you learn. We must yield our minds to him to see what he has to say.
Don't worry about power, don't worry about taking in tongues, yield your mind, the main member of your body to see who you are as a born again believer.

You've created too narrow a box for the Holy Spirit. He is not just our teacher. For instance, interpretation of tongues is by the Holy Spirit, and involves these: 6 But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you unless I speak to you either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching?

If you just want teaching, fine. But there is so much more you are missing.

 

[amadeus]

Still heresy according to Christendom.

Just as long as it is not heresy according to God!

 

[amadeus]

There are no prophets today. All prophecy beyond scripture is false.

Except of course for you when God is speaking though you or me when He speaks through me or anyone else when He speaks through them.

 

[Dave L]

Except of course for you when God is speaking though you or me when He speaks through me or anyone else when He speaks through them.

There are only false prophets today. The bible is the complete revelation.

 

[Dave L]

Just as long as it is not heresy according to God!

It is heresy according to God. It presents one of many false Christs which Jesus warned would deceive many.

 

[ScottA]

100%, "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father"
NOW THIS,
John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you".

can the Lord Jesus lie? of course not, "I" send is the "Father" who send, WHY? because the Father and the Son came. is there scripture for that? let the record speak,
John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him".

HOLD the PRESS, "I thought the Father is sending the "comforter, as well as the Lord Jesus?" so how and why the Fatherr is in us also. hmmmmmmmm.......
Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his".

Spirit of God ..... Spirit of Christ? SAME PERSON, who is ONE Spirit.
definition time: "OF". according to Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, "of" translates the genitive case of nouns, with various shades of meaning. Of these the subjective and objective are mentioned here, which need careful distinction.

and here is the careful distinction. "subject", Spirit of God without flesh, meaning God is "abstract". "Object", Spirit of Christ with Flesh, meaning God is "concrete".

what a revelation, God in Flesh and God without flesh is the "Another" in
John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Another here is G243 Allos. just as I been saying all along. JESUS is the "Another" of himself in flesh.

hence we, we, as in Genesis 1:26 "us" and "our" the Spirit to come in flesh, per Romans 5:14b.

so Dave I agree with the scripture you posted.

The same can be said of the Father and the Son.

 

[101G]

The same can be said of the Father and the Son.

true, it is both who came, was it not?

 

[amadeus]

It is heresy according to God. It presents one of many false Christs which Jesus warned would deceive many.

You are effectively saying that that which is heretical to Christendom is also heretical to God. That would only be true if the ways of Christendom were always equal to the Way of God. In my experience they certainly have not been.

 

[ScottA]

If I stand with Christ and swear things of the Holy Spirit and of the Father, you who stand with the Father and swear the things of the Son and the Holy Spirit, and you who stand with the Holy Spirit and swear by Him the things of the Son and of the Father...can we agree as they do?

No, sadly it is rather brother against brother and child against parent. Each has his own perspective and swears by it.

 

[101G]

I would like to make a statement here.
John 14:22 "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

question, are there two Spirit that's in us today or is there only ONE "Holy Spirit" in us?.

John 14:23 said "WE" will come? we sound like more than one.

let's see if it's one or two.
1 John 3:23 "And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.(who gave us commands to LOVE one another?) ..... JESUS, right, whom many calls the "Son'. now listen to the next verse,

1 John 3:24 "And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

who's Spirit?

1 John 4:11 "Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

1 John 4:12 "No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

1 John 4:13 "Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

notice both words in BLUE, the Son give his Spirit, and the Father gives his Spirit. is there two Spirits? of course not, there is "ONLY" one Spirit, so who Spirit is Given here? remember,
John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

now I hope no one is willing to say it's two Holy Spirits.

 

[101G]

If I stand with Christ and swear things of the Holy Spirit and of the Father, you who stand with the Father and swear the things of the Son and the Holy Spirit, and you who stand with the Holy Spirit and swear by Him the things of the Son and of the Father...can we agree as they do?

No, sadly it is rather brother against brother and child against parent. Each has his own perspective and swears by it.

but scott, Father and Son are titles of the ONE person the Holy Ghost.