Calvinism is NOT a Cult!

[justbyfaith]

Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves.
Philippians 2:3
-Still trying to find where this verse says "Do nothing except selfishly accept God for your own personal gain...


No one should seek their own good, but the good of others.
1 Corinthians 10:24
-Except when they want to seek their own personal gain of heaven.... no not here either

Turn my heart toward your statutes
and not toward selfish gain.
Psalm 119:36
1.) David should know better than to ask God to turn his heart, right? How foolish David was,right?
2.) So, if you can only have faith because of your own selfish desires, is David asking God to turn Him away from faith?

Are you suggesting that there is something in us that would make us acceptable before God, and that God would accept us on that basis?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Are you suggesting that there is something in us that would make us acceptable before God, and that God would accept us on that basis?

Don't you teach conditional election?

 

[Mjh29]

Are you suggesting that there is something in us that would make us acceptable before God, and that God would accept us on that basis?

Nope. Look at the doctrine of unconditional election.

You're the one claiming that
"If you want to get faith, you gotta be selfish!"

Which is irrefutably unscriptural.

 

[justbyfaith]

Don't you teach conditional election?

Don't you teach unconditional election?

 

[justbyfaith]

Nope. Look at the doctrine of unconditional election.

You're the one claiming that
"If you want to get faith, you gotta be selfish!"

Which is irrefutably unscriptural.

What is unscriptural is the concept that you have to be regenerated before you can have faith. The holy scriptures are clear in teaching that we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Don't you teach unconditional election?

Oooohhhh, you enlarged the font on the word "you." Scary. Intimidating.

No, Scripture teaches it. I'm just a messenger.

Now, don't you teach conditional? Yes, you do.

Do you actually think? I'm not seeing it. Why? You're attempting to berate someone for the same error you teach yourself. And you can't answer my simple question. That's just silly buffoonery on your part. Let me know when you're ready to behave like a man and Christian and are ready to dialog accordingly.

 

[Mjh29]

What is unscriptural is the concept that you have to be regenerated before you can have faith. The holy scriptures are clear in teaching that we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

Romans 3:24
And are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

Now, the only 2 options are:

1.) You are claiming that Scripture contradicts itself
2.) Your view of the verse in question is wrong, and needs to be reevaluated. I'm going to stick to the Scriptures.

 

[justbyfaith]

Nope. Look at the doctrine of unconditional election.

You're the one claiming that
"If you want to get faith, you gotta be selfish!"

Which is irrefutably unscriptural.

Also, you have laid forth a straw man.

I do not say, "If you want to get faith, you gotta be selfish!"

What I am saying is that, YOU ARE SELFISH and that this does not mean that you cannot come to faith. For a person can come to faith even for selfish reasons; and the Lord will even honour such a faith as that. Jesus catches the fish and then He cleans them. He doesn't clean them first, that doesn't even work with real fishing; you cannot clean a fish until after you have caught it in real life.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

What is unscriptural is the concept that you have to be regenerated before you can have faith. The holy scriptures are clear in teaching that we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand.

Still misusing Romans 5:2. You have little respect for the Word let alone sound doctrine.

 

[Mjh29]

For a person can come to faith even for selfish reasons; and the Lord will even honour such a faith as that

Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves.
Philippians 2:3
-Still trying to find where this verse says "Do nothing except selfishly accept God for your own personal gain...


No one should seek their own good, but the good of others.
1 Corinthians 10:24
-Except when they want to seek their own personal gain of heaven.... no not here either

Turn my heart toward your statutes
and not toward selfish gain.
Psalm 119:36
1.) David should know better than to ask God to turn his heart, right? How foolish David was,right?
2.) So, if you can only have faith because of your own selfish desires, is David asking God to turn Him away from faith?


..... That's not what my Bible says. It unanimously condemns selfishness as not of God....

 

[justbyfaith]

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

Romans 3:24
And are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

Now, the only 2 options are:

1.) You are claiming that Scripture contradicts itself
2.) Your view of the verse in question is wrong, and needs to be reevaluated. I'm going to stick to the Scriptures.

I'll take the kjv on Romans 3:24, but even with that interpretation (that you have given in your quote of the verse) it does not change the fact that the gift of grace is through faith (Ephesians 2:8, different emphaisis than what you gave).

I see no contradiction between my interpretation of Romans 5:2 and the scriptures that you have given.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Also, you have laid forth a straw man.

I do not say, "If you want to get faith, you gotta be selfish!"

What I am saying is that, YOU ARE SELFISH and that this does not mean that you cannot come to faith. For a person can come to faith even for selfish reasons; and the Lord will even honour such a faith as that. Jesus catches the fish and then He cleans them. He doesn't clean them first, that doesn't even work with real fishing; you cannot clean a fish until after you have caught it in real life.

Nothing but a works gospel you're preaching. Are you aware you're a false teacher, or, is it being done in ignorance?

 

[Mjh29]

I'll take the kjv on Romans 3:24, but even with that interpretation (that you have given in your quote of the verse) it does not change the fact that the gift of grace is through faith (Ephesians 2:8, different emphaisis than what you gave).

I see no contradiction between my interpretation of Romans 5:2 and the scriptures that you have given.

.... but how do you reconcile it with the verses I listed?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

I see no contradiction between my interpretation of Romans 5:2 and the scriptures that you have given.

That's because you don't understand context or respect scripture.

 

[SovereignGrace]

What is unscriptural is the concept that you have to be regenerated before you can have faith. The holy scriptures are clear in teaching that we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand.

We are justified by faith. Being justified means to be declared righteous before God. If someone is declared righteous before God before having faith, that’s backwards. You have someone justified before being saved, IOW.

Faith and regeneration happen simultaneously.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I'll take the kjv on Romans 3:24, but even with that interpretation (that you have given in your quote of the verse) it does not change the fact that the gift of grace is through faith (Ephesians 2:8, different emphaisis than what you gave).

I see no contradiction between my interpretation of Romans 5:2 and the scriptures that you have given.

being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;[Romans 3:24 NASB]

Here we see justification as a gift. So, being declared righteous is a gift of God via the imputed righteousness of the Christ.[2 Corinthians 5:21] Now, the Christ actually brought redemption on the cross. It’s not a maybe, a possibility, or a mayhap, but an actual redemptive work for His ppl.[Matthew 1:21]

 

[Preacher4Truth]

You people who use ppl need to stop using ppl on us people.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You people who use ppl need to stop using ppl on us people.

Boo!

 

[SovereignGrace]

You people who use ppl need to stop using ppl on us people.

Well, there are other words that come to mind when I think of you...

 

[justbyfaith]

Oooohhhh, you enlarged the font on the word "you." Scary. Intimidating.

No, Scripture teaches it. I'm just a messenger.

Now, don't you teach conditional? Yes, you do.

Do you actually think? I'm not seeing it. Why? You're attempting to berate someone for the same error you teach yourself. And you can't answer my simple question. That's just silly buffoonery on your part. Let me know when you're ready to behave like a man and Christian and are ready to dialog accordingly.

What I am saying is that you claim superiority for that you think that you don't teach the same "error". You teach it when it suits you; but there is hypocrisy in the works. Total Depravity means that God takes hold of our depravity to get us where we need to be, in order to deliver us from Total Depravity; it does not mean that God predetermines who will not be saved and condemns them by His predetermiined choice.

..... That's not what my Bible says. It unanimously condemns selfishness as not of God....

Rom 11:14, If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

Gal 5:19, Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

The Bible teaches that God can take hold of sinful things within us and utilize them to bring us to salvation. Have you never read,

Rom 8:28, And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
.
.
.

Nothing but a works gospel you're preaching. Are you aware you're a false teacher, or, is it being done in ignorance?

Still misusing Romans 5:2. You have little respect for the Word let alone sound doctrine.

That's because you don't understand context or respect scripture.

Mat 7:16, Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Not only are you bearing thorns and thistles; but I am also not preaching a works gospel at all. Calvinism hides behind calling its opponents a works gospel by saying that faith in Jesus is works; however Ephesians 2:8-9 shows clearly that faith and works are mutually exclusive.

We are justified by faith. Being justified means to be declared righteous before God. If someone is declared righteous before God before having faith, that’s backwards. You have someone justified before being saved, IOW.

Faith and regeneration happen simultaneously.

I agree...however I would contend that faith is also the catalyst for salvation/regeneration.

being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;[Romans 3:24 NASB]

Here we see justification as a gift. So, being declared righteous is a gift of God via the imputed righteousness of the Christ.[2 Corinthians 5:21] Now, the Christ actually brought redemption on the cross. It’s not a maybe, a possibility, or a mayhap, but an actual redemptive work for His ppl.[Matthew 1:21]

Indeed; and it is for His people...who enter in through faith in Him.

To the Calvinist I would ask, can a person be saved apart from faith in Jesus Christ?

If not, then salvation does not come before faith. If you say that they can, then your "gospel" is that a man can be saved apart from faith in Jesus; and I would identify that as heresy: for the Bible is clear that believing is essential.