WHY ARE MANY OF US STILL HERE?

[bbyrd009]

2 Corinthians 5:2 "For in this (earthly body) we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven (glorified body)..."

Seems to me most Christians groan at the thought of having to leave this earthly body and be clothed with that glorified body, as if they'll miss out on who'll win "The Next American Idol"

Hmm, I find a distinct diff in ppls actions and language there myself, brb

 

[marks]

Love is what leads us to fight temptation, but you Antinomianists have somehow convinced yourselves that once we accept Jesus as Savior and King, we're granted immunity against both temptation to sin and yielding ourselves to it...all while knowing full well that the way of escape that we might be able to bear it is provided.

Hi Phoneman,

When have I ever said that?

This is one of the ways God improves us, by exposing us to opportunities to sin. We are to look for the righteousness that He calls us towards, the outworking of the temptation, the escape, the distant shore, that end He had in mind.

We're to be happy when we are tested/tempted, because this builds patience, and makes us complete.

So when the temptation comes, we look at what God wants, and do that.

The person who claims the promises of God without accepting the conditions by which those promises are claimed.

In Christ alone, not be works of law.

Much love!
mark

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Jesus nullified it with his death of the cross. God removed it forcefully in 70 AD along with the unbelievers and the State.

But Jesus told His hearers that He came NOT to destroy the Law. He fulfilled it for all of us who, without the Helper, could never meet its moral demands. Peter admonished the "Judaizers" in Acts 15:7-11, but that does NOT mean that the foundation of the faith--in Judaism--was nullified. Nor does it mean that God does not have a plan to graft Israel back into the Tree of Life (see Acts 11:22-24). God has said that He cannot forget Israel. It is inconceivable that He would bring them back to the center of His Will outside of the Temple and the sacrificial system. That and the Law is what distinguishes them as a people. The Book of Ezekiel confirms that the sacrificial system will be in place once again, after God blesses His people with hearts which are tender to Him.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

2 Corinthians 5:2 "For in this (earthly body) we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven (glorified body)..."

Seems to me most Christians groan at the thought of having to leave this earthly body and be clothed with that glorified body, as if they'll miss out on who'll win "The Next American Idol"

Not me. Talk to really old Christians. They will say that they love the thought of getting a glorified body that will never die and not be subject to pain and suffering as their mortal bodies now are.

 

[marks]

He did say he "groaned" to be absent from the body, did he not?

I groan sometimes too, wanting to have my resurrection body!

But I don't see that as expressing, "I'm so done with this world I'd kill myself if only it wasn't against the 10 commandments!"

Is it good to want what God wants?

Much love!
mark

 

[bbyrd009]

2 Corinthians 5:2 "For in this (earthly body) we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven (glorified body)..."

Seems to me most Christians groan at the thought of having to leave this earthly body and be clothed with that glorified body, as if they'll miss out on who'll win "The Next American Idol"

"We" groan, like I might say "we believe that we might someday ascend to heaven," even though I do not believe that. Paul does make "I" statements--quite interesting in contrast too--that can be read to get a sense of the diff

 

[bbyrd009]

If the only way to not be condemned is to not sin, then we're all out of luck. But, Jesus came and helped us.

Much love!
Mark

Should be obv imo, but if you sin then you obv break the law, as in Decalogue, right

 

[marks]

these same people who say "I don't have to obey the Ten Commandments even though God wants me to."

Lot's of changes of conversation here. I'm trying to stay with the main flow, but I'll do my best to answer everything that is important to you.

But on this point, who are these people who say this thing? Seems to me to be hypothetical, and hypothetical is not real.

"even though God wants me to." He doesn't.

So I'm a different set of people, those who say I don't have to obey the 10 commandments because God has something better for me, he's made me actually righteous, not a righteousness that comes from Law, and not a righteousness whose goal is a return to the law.

Much love!

 

[bbyrd009]

Seems to me most Christians groan at the thought of having to leave this earthly body and be clothed with that glorified body, as if they'll miss out on who'll win "The Next American Idol"

In my experience the opposite is mostly true, so I'm not sure how to respond to this tbh. Personally it would be quite refreshing to find a believer who isn't piously spouting "I'm not long for this world"

 

[bbyrd009]

but I'll do my best to answer everything that is important to you.

Pretty selective there, eh

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Dispensationalism is not based on scripture. They base it on a hypothetical gap scripture never mentions, and then go about severing prophetic scripture, most already fulfilled, and project it into the future. It is false prophecy from start to finish.

That is your OPINION. You cannot prove it from Scripture.

 

[bbyrd009]

Lot's of changes of conversation here. I'm trying to stay with the main flow, but I'll do my best to answer everything that is important to you.

But on this point, who are these people who say this thing? Seems to me to be hypothetical, and hypothetical is not real.

"even though God wants me to." He doesn't.

So I'm a different set of people, those who say I don't have to obey the 10 commandments because God has something better for me, he's made me actually righteous, not a righteousness that comes from Law, and not a righteousness whose goal is a return to the law.

Much love!

Matthew 5:19 Lexicon: "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

so, much pity I guess, have a nice day tho

 

[marks]

This is the kind of twisted thinking I'm talking about that makes you guys the real legalists. Did Jesus in Gethsemane dream of how wonderful His Father was, or was His sweat as it were "great drops of blood"? By your logic, since Jesus was in the garden reasoning, You will drink the cup, You will drink the cup, He didn't love the Father.

Love is what leads us to fight temptation, but you Antinomianists have somehow convinced yourselves that once we accept Jesus as Savior and King, we're granted immunity against both temptation to sin and yielding ourselves to it...all while knowing full well that the way of escape that we might be able to bear it is provided.

To your question . . .

Hebrews 12:1-3
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

Jesus didn't go to the cross because He had to. He wanted to. He wanted it to be easier, and asked His Father to make it so, but there was no change in His determination to die in our place, even if it meant incredible suffering.

You seem to have a propensity to put words into my mouth.

By your logic, since Jesus was in the garden reasoning, You will drink the cup, You will drink the cup, He didn't love the Father.

How have I ever said this?

I believe that as Jesus was in the garden, He was thinking about how much He loves us, and how difficult it was going to be to love us in the way we needed, that is, for Jesus to die what would be a brutal death. He didn't want the torture, but He was here for that reason, to die in our place, out of love.

Much love!
mark

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

In my experience the opposite is mostly true, so I'm not sure how to respond to this tbh. Personally it would be quite refreshing to find a believer who isn't piously spouting "I'm not long for this world"

Why? We are specifically told to avoid loving this world. 1 John 2:15-16--->"Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world."

 

[Dave L]

That is your OPINION. You cannot prove it from Scripture.

If you can prove a gap from scripture, you are not a false prophet.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

If you can prove a gap from scripture, you are not a false prophet.

I think I already did but you did not accept the evidence from Daniel 9.

 

[Dave L]

But Jesus told His hearers that He came NOT to destroy the Law. He fulfilled it for all of us who, without the Helper, could never meet its moral mandates. Peter admonished the "Judaizers" in Acts 15:7-11, but that does NOT mean that the foundation of the faith--in Judaism--was nullified. Nor does it mean that God does not have a plan to graft Israel back into the Tree of Life (see Acts 11:22-24). God has said that He cannot forget Israel. It is inconceivable that He would bring them back to the center of His Will outside of the Temple and the sacrificial system. That and the Law is what distinguishes them as a people. The Book of Ezekiel confirms that the sacrificial system will be in place once again, after God blesses His people with hearts which are tender to Him.

This is hard to follow. So I'll provide the biblical teaching. The Ten Commandments and circumcision were the Old Covenant. Jeremiah said the New Covenant replaced the Old. = no more physical Jews or Israel. Paul says God removed the unbelievers whom he will graft back in through faith in Christ. This makes Jesus and believers Israel to whom believers are grafted back into. Why would God graft them back into unbelieving "Israel"?

 

[Dave L]

I think I already did but you did not accept the evidence from Daniel 9.

Direct scripture quotes prove a point. Interpretations do not. And you have no direct scripture quotes mentioning a gap. Nor a 7 year tribulation, nor a pre-trib rapture, nor a revived Roman Empire, nor a ...... etc., etc.

 

[marks]

Matthew 5:19 Lexicon: "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

so, much pity I guess, have a nice day tho

An interesting thing to quote.

Are you giving tithes to Levites? Or have you annulled that law? Do you teach others to give tithes to Levites?

Much love!
Mark

 

[bbyrd009]

Why

Bc they do not mean "leave the world" spiritually, the way it was meant, but rather literally