What am I? Calvinist...or Arminian? Or something in between?

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Preacher4Truth

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I have understood 1 Corinthians 15:22 namely, 'for as in Adam all die so in Christ all will be made alive' to mean what brakelite has said ie, salvation is our birthright.

That would be Universalism.

You attempted to state something about context, but you've missed the context above. I snipped off where you had gone further astray in your attempt to respond.

Lastly, no human is due salvation as a birthright. That would make God as owing salvation to all. Your conclusion is incorrect.
 
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brakelite

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That would be Universalism.
No, because faith is still a prerequisite.
Lastly, no human is due salvation as a birthright. That would make God as owing salvation to all.
God created no-one to be lost. It is His will that all should come to repentance. It does not mean He owes anyone anything. It is our birthright is we are willing to believe. Like quiethinker said, there is a lot of sand in the Sinai desert that used to be children of Abraham who chose not to accept their birthright. They were children of the promise, just as you and I are. It is our choice to believe it or not. Go forward in faith, or die in the desert. I know what God's will is for us...but does everyone?
 
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Nancy

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If you can believe, all things are possible to him that believes.
It is easy to be saved, and hard to be lost if one understands and believes how good the good news truly is. The only difficult thing is learning how to believe the gospel.
John 3:16,17
Mark 9:23
Romans 10:10
Matthew 11:28
Acts 9:5; 26:14
Romans 6: 1,2,14,15
2 Corinthians 5:14
Psalm 27:10; 103:13
John 16:7-11
John 1:5,9
Romans 5:20; 1-10
Galatians 5:16,17
Romans 2:4
Jesus taught that belief is the most difficult thing. God does the loving and the giving, our part is to do the believing. "My yoke is easy, My burden light". and to resist is to "kick against the goads"...which is hard. The love of Christ "constraineth us"...it is an active love...a believer in the gospel cannot continue to live for self. Christ's love for each individual is far greater than a parent for a child. To kick against the goads is to resist the holy Spirit's conviction of good news. Light greater than darkness...grace greater than sin...holy Spirit greater than flesh. God is leading each person to repentance, but many refuse His leading. There is way far greater power in grace than there is in sin. The power of grace is the power of creation.

Hmm, well I have heard of 1 pointers, 2 pointers and so on with Calvinists. Some believe in all of TULIP and some only a couple or a few.
To "kick against the goads"...yes, lol...The Holy Spirit is continually offering yet, most fight against it. NO sin is greater than His mercy ♥ I, personally find it harder to NOT believe.
I know this is not really offering anything in the line of your OP being a bible study, just my thoughts. :)
 
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CoreIssue

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That would be Universalism.

You attempted to state something about context, but you've missed the context above. I snipped off where you had gone further astray in your attempt to respond.

Lastly, no human is due salvation as a birthright. That would make God as owing salvation to all. Your conclusion is incorrect.

One cult member correcting another cult member.
 

CoreIssue

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Whaaaaa???? Okay, lol...not at all following so, I will bow out of this.

Let me try again.

Good Christians get some things wrong biblically. That does not make them a cult.

A cult denies central essential truths of the Bible.

Calvinists deny the central reality of salvation by repentance in faith in Jesus Christ. That is done in freewill.

Jehovah witness have a different salvation and a different Christ and God. A different Bible.
 
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Preacher4Truth

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No, because faith is still a prerequisite.

God created no-one to be lost. It is His will that all should come to repentance. It does not mean He owes anyone anything. It is our birthright is we are willing to believe. Like quiethinker said, there is a lot of sand in the Sinai desert that used to be children of Abraham who chose not to accept their birthright. They were children of the promise, just as you and I are. It is our choice to believe it or not. Go forward in faith, or die in the desert. I know what God's will is for us...but does everyone?

No human has a salvation birthright. You're still making God out to be as one owing all mankind an opportunity to vote themselves into heaven. That is what you believe, but it isn't the Gospel.

You've alluded to 2 Peter 3:9. The "all" there is not all of mankind. In context it is those whom God elected, he is long-suffering toward "us" or his elect. Context is perfectly clear on this, start in the first verse in chapter 1 and think it through.

It is not those who elect themselves, or those who think they choose themselves into the kingdom that become saved thereby, that would be works. This would be your flaw, you believe man determines salvation by choosing. You're aware that scripture denies this, right? Do you know where these texts are?

In answer to your OP, another subject now: You're neither Calvinist nor Arminian, you're Pelagian and Finney in belief. Neither of the latter three are biblical doctrine. Scripture is clear no one is saved by choice, but I'd guess you're not open to being corrected by Scripture as your OP is simply begging the question and takes a lot of allusions to scripture out of context.
 

CoreIssue

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Hmm, well I have heard of 1 pointers, 2 pointers and so on with Calvinists. Some believe in all of TULIP and some only a couple or a few.
To "kick against the goads"...yes, lol...The Holy Spirit is continually offering yet, most fight against it. NO sin is greater than His mercy ♥ I, personally find it harder to NOT believe.
I know this is not really offering anything in the line of your OP being a bible study, just my thoughts. :)

But the Calvinists totally reject your premise.
 
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Helen

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I have understood 1 Corinthians 15:22 namely, 'for as in Adam all die so in Christ all will be made alive' to mean what brakelite has said ie, salvation is our birthright.
Now not to confuse context and birthright I think it is in order to understand that both the 'birthright' of death in Adam had nothing to do with us personally, so also the birthright of Salvation in Jesus had nothing to do with us personally. Both these birthrights where achieved/accomplished before we were born. In other words, what was lost beyond our control was redeemed beyond our control.

This is Good News beyond expectation. We can however refuse what was purchased for us by unbelief just as the Hebrews refused entry into the promised land....that generation died in the desert.....that generation is a testimony to us that when God says go in because it is your birthright (as per the promise) and we refuse, we will die in the desert so to speak. Consider how Hebrews draws these parallels in chapter 3.

Yes! ....Thumb.gif
 
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Helen

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No, because faith is still a prerequisite.

God created no-one to be lost. It is His will that all should come to repentance. It does not mean He owes anyone anything. It is our birthright is we are willing to believe. Like quiethinker said, there is a lot of sand in the Sinai desert that used to be children of Abraham who chose not to accept their birthright. They were children of the promise, just as you and I are. It is our choice to believe it or not. Go forward in faith, or die in the desert. I know what God's will is for us...but does everyone?

Good post here...you are 'on a roll'. Amen!!
 

Enoch111

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You've alluded to 2 Peter 3:9. The "all" there is not all of mankind. In context it is those whom God elected, he is long-suffering toward "us" or his elect. Context is perfectly clear on this, start in the first verse in chapter 1 and think it through.
It would be meaningless to apply this "all" to the elect since according to Calvinism they are already guaranteed to never perish. So once again, a wresting of the Scriptures and of the truth.
It is not those who elect themselves, or those who think they choose themselves into the kingdom that become saved thereby, that would be works.
No one elects themselves, but all must come to repentance and faith in order to be born again. That is a choice and it is definitely not works. How can faith be works? More Calvinistic nonsense.
You're neither Calvinist nor Arminian, you're Pelagian and Finney in belief.
Applying pejorative labels will get you nowhere. Support your beliefs with Scripture rightly interpreted.
 
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quietthinker

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That would be Universalism.

You attempted to state something about context, but you've missed the context above. I snipped off where you had gone further astray in your attempt to respond.

Lastly, no human is due salvation as a birthright. That would make God as owing salvation to all. Your conclusion is incorrect.
I don't subscribe to Universalism P4T,

Do you not believe that your subjection to death was inherited from Adam? If you believe that then you must agree that you weren't around when Adam represented you.
When Jesus died for your sins you weren't around either, yet I guess you believe that Jesus died for your sins also representing you? If thats the case, where's the problem?

Amazing Grace.....'while we were yet sinners, Christ died for the ungodly' Romans 5:8 ...isn't that something?
It is when I see, and it is progressive, how much I am loved, it gives me reason to do what God asks of me. It gives me motivation. It is the response of faith. I do not find that complicated or difficult to understand.
 
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Helen

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I don't subscribe to Universalism P4T,

Do you not believe that your subjection to death was inherited from Adam? If you believe that then you must agree that you weren't around when Adam represented you.
When Jesus died for your sins you weren't around either, yet I guess you believe that Jesus died for your sins also representing you? If thats the case, where's the problem?

Amazing Grace.....'while we were yet sinners, Christ died for the ungodly' Romans 5:8 ...isn't that something?
It is when I see, and it is progressive, how much I am loved, it gives me reason to do what God asks of me. It gives me motivation. It is the response of faith. I do not find that complicated or difficult to understand.

AMEN!!
 
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brakelite

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You're still making God out to be as one owing all mankind an opportunity to vote themselves into heaven. That is what you believe, but it isn't the Gospel.
In three of the quotes I have posted here from your own pen, you state, "You're still making out God ….owing mankind"... "this is what you believe"..."you believe man determines salvation by choosing"...."you're Pelagian". You are a very determined determinist determining what I do and don't believe. Now I know that is what I asked for in my initial OP, but it was intended that your judgement of my perspective be based on the scriptures I am presenting, and my understanding of them, not on what you believe those scriptures mean. For example...
ou've alluded to 2 Peter 3:9. The "all" there is not all of mankind. In context it is those whom God elected, he is long-suffering toward "us" or his elect. Context is perfectly clear on this, start in the first verse in chapter 1 and think it through.
Your spin on 2Peter3:9 that God has no desire that everyone repent, and that the "all" referenced here is not all, but just a select few, is precisely the kind of exegetical extremism I was hoping to expose. Your conception of love that coerces some to glory, while consigning others to damnation, shows a determined lack of faith in half the scriptures which expose your biases. Not only so, but your over-reaction by foisting upon me the credentials of your arch enemies as evidenced here....

you believe man determines salvation by choosing.
Is a sad twist on what I have been saying. Salvation is already established and offered. The price has been paid, there is nothing we can add or accomplish that contributes to the transaction. Christ's death for my life...His life for my death...His righteousness for my sin. The Father's drawing that brought me to the foot of the cross. The gift of life...the gift of the Son of God...had already been given mankind. And me, as a part of mankind, therefore had also already received that gift. But would I accept such a generous offer? Would I believe that such a gift was for me? Did I believe??? Without faith, it is impossible to please God.

You're neither Calvinist nor Arminian, you're Pelagian and Finney
No, I refuse to be placed in a box by some extremist who can determine some elses beliefs based on his own misapprehension of his own insight and his not bothering to read my own testimony that denies his preconceptions. See below...maybe things will become clearer...
 
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brakelite

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And he believed the Lord, and it was counted to him for righteousness.

Genesis 15:16
Galatians 4:24
Exodus 19:8
Mark 14:29-31
Genesis 12:1-3; 13:14-17; 15:4,5; 15:9-17
Romans 4:1,11-13,16-18
Galatians 3:23-26
Romans 4:3-6, 24,25.

The new covenant is God's one-way promise to write His law on our hearts, and to give us everlasting salvation as a free gift 'in Christ'. The old covenant was the vain promise of the people to obey (Ex 19:8) and gives birth to bondage. The spiritual failures of many sincere people are the result of being taught old covenant ideas. The new covenant truth, which is encapsulated in the term "righteousness by faith", lifts a load of doubt, despair, frustration and fear from many heavy hearts.
The covenant and promise of God are one and the same, for God's covenants with man can be nothing but promises to them. After the flood God made a covenant with every beast and every fowl of the earth, including man, that never again would he destroy the earth by flood. None of those creatures were asked to make a promise in return, and nor did they. (Gen. 9:9-16). They simply received the favour at the hand of God. This is all we can do; receive God's promises. God promises us everything, even "more than we can ask or think", as a gift. Even if we should offer ourselves in return, that is nothing but service. What God gave us...His only begotten Son...that is everything. We begin to get into trouble when we think that salvation is some sort of exchange. That we can make bargains with God making it a form of transaction whereby favours are swapped in a mutual agreement...such thinking puts us on a par with the Almighty. Recognition of, and humble acceptance of Christ as the gift of the Father without recompense or favours offered in return, and our simple child-like trust that God's promises in Christ are yes, and no, is our safeguard against the extremes of Calvinism and Arminianism, because it is what the Bible teaches.
Even God's commandments are promises. They must be so, because He knows we have no power, and that without Him we can do nothing. All that God requires is what He gives. When He says, "Thou shalt not", or Thou shalt", we may take this as His assurance...His promise...His spoken word of creative power..."thou shalt not"...that if we believe Him He will preserve us from the sin against which He is warning us, and will "with the temptation provide a way of escape".
2 Peter 1:1-4
Ezekiel 36:22-28
Galatians 2:20
2 Corinthians 1:18-24
John 15:5
Romans 7:4
Galatians 5:22,23
Ephesians 5:9
Philippians 1:11; 4:13
James 1:17
1 John 2:5
And many many more....
It is not us that must do what the Lord pleases. but "it, (My word) shall accomplish that which I please". We are not to hear or read the word and say, "I must do that", or "I will not do this", but rather to open our hearts to that word and believe God when He said that we are "sanctified by truth; My word is truth". Let God do what He promises. "Let the word of Christ dwell in us richly in all wisdom". Col.3:16
We just have to stop putting up barriers by our unbelief...by our unwillingness to obey. "But whosoever keepeth His word in him verily is the love of God perfected; hereby know we that are in Him". "So shall be the word that goeth forth out of my mouth; it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I send it.". "But on the good ground are they which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, bringing forth fruit with patience." "We are justified (made righteous) freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus".
The best efforts of sinful man cannot produce righteousness. The only way is as a gift. Romans 5:17
 
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