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What am I? Calvinist...or Arminian? Or something in between?

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics Forum' started by brakelite, Mar 12, 2019.

  1. Preacher4Truth

    Preacher4Truth Well-Known Member

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    No, you're incorrect and inconsistent. Your usages of texts are interpreted in a Universalist sense, taking them out of context. You did this to 1 Corinthians 15:22. Then when you respond to being shown it is Universalism you attempt to undo your previous interpretation and application, but you don't see that. I'm just saying your theology isn't consistent, it goes from Universalism to Pelagianism. This happens solely because you won't use context in interpretation.

    Secondly you have refused to properly use 2 Peter 3:9 in it's context, 2 Timothy 2:15 is needed. The text is not about every single person who has ever lived. However if you wish to misuse it, no one can prevent that. Not sure why you completely avoid handling the texts properly brother.

    Have you asked yourself why you refuse to address this? Do you know you cannot refute Scripture used in context and have to take others out of context to arrive at your conclusions? That is pitting Scripture against Scripture. Such does not arrive at truth. I hope you will see this, study it, and adjust your theology to properly handling the word via correction; 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

    Lastly, another thing you've avoided is the fact no person is saved via their will, choice or determination. You keep saying they are, but Scripture begs to differ; John 6:63 for instance. I asked if you know where the texts are that refute such teachings, but it is all left unanswered. Trying to discuss context of Scripture with you is unprofitable because you refuse to address it. Using man made illustrations of sand and what not are not answers: Scripture in context is the answer.

    With all due respect you are not yet ready to properly interpret the Word of God and will continue to use it out of context which means you're really not arriving at truthful conclusions. It appears then a futile discussion until you address context then adjust your conclusions to fit the truth of the texts.
     
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  2. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    That is a very lengthy drawn out way to say, I am right and you are wrong because you don't see things the way I do.
     
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  3. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Yes they do, and they have in the past. As much as I loved my last Church, I could not get past the pastors Calvinist beliefs. He did not necessarily "preach" on it (huh, wonder why-empty pews? lol) But...I could tell after a couple years how he worked some of that doctrine into his words...I would say that the large majority of that Church had no idea what the Calvinistic doctrines even are! It is the elders, leaders and the pastor who are the hard core Calvinists.
     
  4. Mjh29

    Mjh29 Well-Known Member

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    You're right, most average church-members don't know it as 'Calvinism'; they just know it as 'the Truth of God.' Calvinism as a term was only invented because the followers of Arminias rose up and demanded the church conform to their views. [By the way, they were unanimously condemned as heretics. If these same beliefs you present were presented to the same council of well over 100 pastors from all over the globe and all different denominations, they would still condemn it as heresy.]
     
  5. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Reference post 30
     
  6. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Calvinism is like dust. Small but gets into everything and remains dirt that can clog up everything.
     
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  7. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    I guess both are "camps," right
     
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  8. Anthony D'Arienzo

    Anthony D'Arienzo Well-Known Member

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    Enoch111,

    [While your approach is commendable, I do not believe that the two theologies can be reconciled. Calvinists and Arminians both distort Scriptures to support their idea.]
    Calvinists teach biblical teaching. Others do not understand the teaching, they are called Arminians

    [1. All human beings are sinners, and all need to be saved by grace through faith. None can save themselves by their own righteousness.]
    Correct


    2. Christ died for the sins of the whole world,
    No, He died for the sins of His sheep who are scattered worldwide
    [and all may be saved if all will repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.]

    All men will not repent and be saved. Those God has elected will repent and believe when Jesus seeks and saves them

    [Therefore none are elected for either salvation or damnation]
    Multitudes are elected unto salvation before the world was made. Others are passed over, or left in their sin
    [3. The Gospel must go out into all the world and to every creature. And whosoever will may take of the Water of Life freely.]
    The gospel is going worldwide, but not every creature will hear it


    4. The Gospel itself is the power of God unto salvation,
    The words themselves are not the power of God unto salvation, it is the object of the words accompanied by the work of the Spirit
    ...therefore when the Gospel is preached, saving faith is generated, and all may have such faith.
    nope...not so


    At the same time the Holy Spirit convicts and convinces sinners, draws them to Christ, and brings them to repentance.
    You want it both ways
    5. Obedience to the Gospel is a choice. Some will believe while others will not. Those who believe must be baptized immediately or almost immediately.

    There is no special baptism timetable
    6. No one can be saved (justified) by good works or the works of the Law.

    7. Those who are saved are elect according to the foreknowledge of God,
    you have it backwards as you misuse the biblical term
     
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  9. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member

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    I preach monthly at a Separate Baptist church. Most times there are less than 10 there. FYI, they hold to free will. Low #’s are in a lot of churches, not just one camp.
     
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  10. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    And what does that mean? That apostasy is rampant and cults like Catholicism and Calvinism are growing?
     
  11. Anthony D'Arienzo

    Anthony D'Arienzo Well-Known Member

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    core1 said;
    [Calvinism is like dust. Small but gets into everything and remains dirt that can clog up everything.]

    upload_2019-3-16_0-23-48.png
     
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  12. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    If that were really true then all Christians would hold to Calvinistic beliefs. No. (1) Calvinists distort Bible and Gospel truth (2) Calvinism is not rocket science that others cannot understand.
    Now this is a blatant DENIAL of Gospel truth.

    The same [John] came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. (Jn 1:7)

    The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (Jn 1:29)

    And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.(Jn 3:14-17)

    We could add dozens of additional passages. None of them will say that Christ died only for "the elect" or "His sheep". That is called twisting the Scriptures.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019 at 12:32 AM
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  13. Anthony D'Arienzo

    Anthony D'Arienzo Well-Known Member

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    "Enoch111,
    [If that were really true than all Christians would hold to Calvinistic beliefs. ]

    They do

    [(2) Calvinism is not rocket science that others cannot understand.]
    11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.


    Now this is a blatant DENIAL of Gospel truth.

    showing you do not understand goepel truth;
    50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

    51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

    52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.


    [And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.(Jn 3:14-17)]

    upload_2019-3-16_1-38-22.png

    [We could add dozens of additional passages. None of them will say that Christ died only for "the elect" or "His sheep". That is called twisting the Scriptures.]

    lol..guys like you make it too easy, you say;

    [none of them will say that Christ died for the sheep]

    I guess you forgot a few;
    11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd
    giveth his life for the sheep.
    22 Therefore will I save my flock, and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between cattle and cattle.

    23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.

    24 And I the Lord will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the Lord have spoken it.

    25 And I will make with them a covenant of peace,



    I understand your frustration. As of yet you are unable to take it in.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019 at 12:52 AM
  14. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    And this thread has developed precisely into that which I objected to I think in my second post. Both extremes shooting Bible text bullets at each other as if they contradict the Bible texts offered by the opposition. Mindless insanity.
    "I am more advanced in knowledge and maturity because my scriptures outweigh yours".
    "You are not mature enough to understand this very advanced gospel."
    Yet Jesus would tell you that even little children can understand the gospel better than all of you. You divide one another into cults and sects, believing that your doctrines define whether you are Christian or not. Yet Jesus didn't say we were to judge prophets by their doctrine...you know what they were to be judged by huh...but I don't see a lot of those displayed on these pages.
     
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  15. Anthony D'Arienzo

    Anthony D'Arienzo Well-Known Member

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    brakelite,

    [And this thread has developed precisely into that which I objected to I think in my second post.]
    Of course it has. There is truth and there is error
    [
    Both extremes]

    Both extremes??? Not really. One side uses bible verses in context, the other does not seem to understand what context is.
    [shooting Bible text bullets at each other as if they contradict the Bible texts offered by the opposition.
    one position is biblical, not both. You see it as two options.
    [Mindless insanity.]

    That is just trying to be lazy and not deal with the texts.Make generalizations so you do not have to answer.

    ["I am more advanced in knowledge and maturity because my scriptures outweigh yours"]

    The scriptures are God-given and belong to Him.
    ["You are not mature enough to understand this very advanced gospel."]

    Some are not mature enough to have a good understanding. It does not make them bad people, just uninformed. They should read and learn before attacking truth
    [Yet Jesus would tell you that even little children can understand the gospel better than all of you.]
    That is not what He said, but you do not care. You just want to make it up as you go along

     
  16. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    So says the SDA cult member.
     
  17. Preacher4Truth

    Preacher4Truth Well-Known Member

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    Understanding that election and salvation are 100% of God is not "this very advanced gospel" as you say. It is instead the milk of the Word.
     
  18. Preacher4Truth

    Preacher4Truth Well-Known Member

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    Yes, of course, why not? Those who don't hold your views are extreme, are shooting Bible bullets, and are in mindless insanity. That's what they get for using context, and handling the word rightly, 2 Timothy 2:15. Sound contextual interpretation is "Bible bullets," "extreme" and "mindless insanity."

    Got it.

    Yet you're in the right, but choose to ridicule and offer inflammatory insults? Hmmmm. That's what happens when one has lost and will not accept refutation or correction. None of your behavior is Christian, that's for certain, at least not here.

    All this instead of learning to use Scripture in context. Just call a few names, add in a couple insulting comments instead and it's all good.
     
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  19. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    I am sorry brakelite that your attempt at clarification has been pulled into the dirt. It is clear to me that those claiming superior knowledge are no more than clanging bells and tinkling cymbals.

    It is no surprise that such illustrious monikers given for themselves are nothing but an attempt at self glorification. As you no doubt know, this practice has been pursued throughout history.
     
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  20. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Keeping everybody straighten my mind it's difficult at times.

    I believe you are a Jehovah's Witness. Is that correct?
     
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