POLL: Was Jesus PERFECT?

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Was Jesus PERFECT? --- Sinless, YES; but Perfect??

  • Yes

    Votes: 21 91.3%
  • No

    Votes: 2 8.7%
  • Haven't thought about it ...

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    23

amadeus

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Assuming maybe it wasn’t a ‘hole-in-one’...

power comes from God so doubtfully the Father’s power to heal (by the Son)changed in thoroughness in this instance but was purposely so...

Can’t remember the passage but the Lord spitting on the blind man’s eyes is explained in the OT? 1) He led the blind man out of the village. 2) Touched the ‘blind’ man twice: once for physical sight and second for spiritual sight. Don’t all have to been touched of God once for physical sight, but then again for Spiritual sight... to be made whole and complete? “Restored”? Does it not require both sights? So much in the word about trees ...one in garden that grew and shrouded all others, exaulted himself and fell. “I see men; but they look like trees, walking.”
"And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly." Mark 8:23-25


Isaiah 61:3
[3] To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord , that he might be glorified.

Trees of righteousness planted...planted doesn’t mean stationary and not moving ...but trees walking?

*maybe backwards in He touches the Spiritually blind to restore sight before man can ever see clearly men? Can man see clearly without Spiritual sight?

Someone on another post here said that Jesus never failed to do anything that He wanted to do, but this is not true. Consider this very well known verse:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

The ones who would not perish are limited to those who believed in Him. God really wants everyone to believe in Him and provides the means and opportunity, but He insists that they do it His Way. If they do not then will they not receive the reward of hypocrites... or?

"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward." Matt 6:5

The man believed but his belief had only just begun. God's work was incomplete in him. He needed to move or grow closer to God. Anyone on this forum need to do this?

Why did Jesus need to touch the man's eyes twice in Mark 8:23ff ?

I would say it is likely that the man was not completely open to God the first time. For good reason or bad in his own mind he blocked God's way even as people today who have known God block or quench the Holy Spirit.

Consider this man Simon who believed and was baptized here...

"Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done." Acts 8:13

He believed or as some would term it today, he was saved... but he needed another touch from God to move him closer to God, to improve his vision of God. Instead of seeking what was really needed he sought to obtain that which would satisfy his flesh. His vision was blurred and he did not seek to improve it or to have it improved, did he? He needed to move from through a glass darkly toward "face to face" but failed to do so.

"And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost." Acts 8:18-19


"But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God." Acts 8:20-21


"Where there is no vision, the people perish..." Prov 29:18

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

Again back to the question of Jesus failing to do that which He wanted to do. Jesus never made a mistake and never failed to do anything He tried to do, but knowing the hearts of men He did not try to impose God's will on anyone whose heart remained closed to God. Jesus restored natural life to people more than once, but He did not attempt to bring all of the people out of their graves who died. He knew God's plan and worked within it and being the Word of God [John 1:14], He never went against God's Word.

Today all of us have seen men of God pray and fail or perhaps we, those of us on this forum, have prayed for some person's healing and failed. Jesus never did. This is because He knew what He was supposed to do and when. If we are led by the Holy Spirit always, so will we. That we try and fail means at times we are not led by the Holy Spirit. At times we are not asking and receiving. At times we are not listening to and hear His Voice. So then are we not His sheep?
 
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amadeus

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If you know them by their fruits, why all the scandal in Pentecostal circles that is missing in the main stream churches?
Still you miss the point. Whether they are scandalously wrong or scrupulously correct in their appearance before you and before me it does not mean we should always avoid them, nor does it mean we should quickly jump on their bandwagon . Paul writes:

"Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure." I Tim 5:22

That is me that is to keep clean, and that is me who is to avoid partaking their sins... But probably every one of those churches or denominational groups you mentioned probably has some truth. Even the very best of those with no apparent scandal are likely in error in part. You keep wanting to separate the tares from the wheat now. Has God qualified you and appointed you as a harvester to work this work now?

"Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn." Matt 13:30

Where is the place of burning in which you are to bind them? Where it the barn in which you are to gather them?
 
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Dave L

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Still you miss the point. Whether they are scandalously wrong or scrupulously correct in their appearance before you and before me does it mean we should always avoid them nor does not mean we should quickly jump on their bandwagon . Paul writes:

"Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure." I Tim 5:22

That is me that is to keep clean, and that is me who is to avoid partaking their sins... But probably every one of those churches or denominational groups you mentioned probably has some truth. Even the very best of those with no apparent scandal are likely in error in part. You keep wanting to separate the tares from the wheat now. Has God qualified you and appointed you as a harvester to work this work now?

"Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn." Matt 13:30

Where is the place of burning in which you are to bind them? Where it the barn in which you are to gather them?
How are any of today's Charismatic leaders anything like Christ or the Apostles?
 

amadeus

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How are any of today's Charismatic leaders anything like Christ or the Apostles?
Is anyone confessing to be a follower of Christ to anything like Him or any of the original Apostles He appointed?

Hopefully some are on the approach, but whose job, again I ask you, is it to separate the tares from the wheat?

Are you a qualified reaper given that task by God now?

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

"Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn." Matt 13:30
 
D

Dave L

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Is anyone confessing to be a follower of Christ to anything like Him or any of the original Apostles He appointed?

Hopefully some are on the approach, but whose job, again I ask you, is it to separate the tares from the wheat?

Are you a qualified reaper given that task by God now?

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

"Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn." Matt 13:30
There is much more spirituality in mainline churches than I've ever seen in Charismatic churches.
 

amadeus

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There is much more spirituality in mainline churches than I've ever seen in Charismatic churches.
I could give a similar testimony with the opposite emphasis from my experience, but what would that do for anyone else reading this thread? You still fail to address any point that I mentioned or any question that I asked. If you had it would simply emphasize differences. It would not establish truth or falsehood. Only God does that as only God gives any increase that matters...
 
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Dave L

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I could give a similar testimony with the opposite emphasis from my experience, but what would that do for anyone else reading this thread? You still fail to address any point that I mentioned or any question that I asked. If you had it would simply emphasize differences. It would establish truth of falsehood. Only God does that as only God gives any increase that matters...
What's your best question? I'll see if I can answer it.
 
B

brakelite

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No Son of Man may die for another's sins
While it is obvious that man cannot die for another's man's sins, what about the Soon of God?
"beliefs" are really "absolute truths" as far as they are concerned?
At least until they are shown to be different. Personally, I don't want to go through life believing stuff that may or may not be"true". I'm quite happy to be certain now, and be proved wrong of necessary. To be settled into what is understood to be truth for me is better than aiming at a moving target you are not certain is even the target.
 

bbyrd009

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While it is obvious that man cannot die for another's man's sins, what about the Soon of God?
you have to break up Nehushtan yourself, to make your election sure imo
At least until they are shown to be different. Personally, I don't want to go through life believing stuff that may or may not be"true". I'm quite happy to be certain now
no prob, and ty for the confession
 

bbyrd009

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and be proved wrong of necessary.
fully believing that to be possible, yes. A manifested illustration
To be settled into what is understood to be truth for me is better than aiming at a moving target you are not certain is even the target.
target is used in a dialectic manner there imo, like "race" and other competitive sports; but this doesn't mean that no certainty of a certain stripe does not exist, ok, even if you do have to step off a cliff yea, tho I walk thru the valley I will fear no evil

but what you mean is a certainty about tomorrow right

 

bbyrd009

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you have to break up Nehushtan yourself
make sure you are not burning incense to a snake on a pole to relieve you of your snake-bit condition iow

consider the irony of seeking escape from the most prosperous systeom ever, from a life that is far better than at any point in history by any measure you care to name. The morality index is a good aggregator for that if I remem right
 
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marks

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ha you are still so sure, huh? But Christ was the propitiation for the sins of the whole world, mark, and as you sow, so shall you reap applies to all too I guess

So then you are universalist?
 

marks

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EXCELLENT. That's the "discovery" which this POLL has thus far generated (at least for ME), and which can compel each of us to study, contemplate, and DECIDE! :)


Good summary, MarkS!
Bobby Jo


Isn't it enough to say that what Jesus did was good?

And then . . . why the two annointings? Perhaps something only that man knew. And Jesus, that is.

Much love!
Mark
 

marks

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He who says he knows, does not

In that case none know except those who do not know that they know, which renders all in ignorance. What does it mean? No one knows!

Do you know?
 

Helen

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So then you are universalist?

I'm not sure if he is....but I am.
Saved in 1964 , and in 1988 the Lord showed me His Father heart...and I have never stepped back from it.
 
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brakelite

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fully believing that to be possible, yes. A manifested illustration
target is used in a dialectic manner there imo, like "race" and other competitive sports; but this doesn't mean that no certainty of a certain stripe does not exist, ok, even if you do have to step off a cliff yea, tho I walk thru the valley I will fear no evil

but what you mean is a certainty about tomorrow right
I'm certain that tomorrow I may learn I've been wrong about some thing. Or things. Because I am certain I don't know everything today, and what I do know is incomplete. Yet I'm still willing to take a stand on what I do presently understand, or else how can we preach the gospel? How can we with conviction convince others that God is a God who can be known?
Nehushtan is not a reality for everyone.
 
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brakelite

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make sure you are not burning incense to a snake on a pole to relieve you of your snake-bit condition iow

consider the irony of seeking escape from the most prosperous systeom ever, from a life that is far better than at any point in history by any measure you care to name. The morality index is a good aggregator for that if I remem right
Sin is a terminal disease and death is the only cure. I'm not looking to any snake for healing... Whatever consequences the are for past indiscretions I guess will have to be faced, or suffered. And we are in a fallen world so sorrow and pain is inevitable. Tomorrow though, according to promise, is another story