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Dave L
Guest
Use scripture to prove your point, not opinion.Your delusional, like in your bash Jews & Israel threads , you blatantly ignore the scriptures given to you and then turn around and say you haven't been given any.
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Use scripture to prove your point, not opinion.Your delusional, like in your bash Jews & Israel threads , you blatantly ignore the scriptures given to you and then turn around and say you haven't been given any.
You are in denial. And will continue adding to the book of Revelation unless you heed Jesus' words about the kingdom being spiritual.Sure. You also proved martians exist.
Bad translations are just that...bad translations.
Wuest stacks the deck with his dishonest bias for Dispensationalism.And you are the sole arbiter of what is a bad translation? By all means, have at it. Jerome wrote the Latin Vulgate in the 4th century. He grew up with Greek as a primary language. And now you come along 16 centuries later and claim to be more wise than Jerome regarding what is the best way to translate 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Likewise Tyndale, Beza, etc who contributed to the Geneva bible. And since the Church of England hated many of these guys and ran them out of the country (Queen Mary), then later King James decided to have a translation done that would be the "approved" or "authoritarian" translation of the scripture. The crown had already shown its bias to seeking scriptural truth.
So, I side with the translation of 2 Thessalonians 2:3 as departure, as in physical departure not a doctrinal one, as per the Latin Vulgate, Wycliffe bible (1384), Beza Bible (1583), Tyndale Bible (1526), Coverdale Bible (1535), Cranmer bible (1539), Geneva bible (1599), etc.
the parallel between 2 thessalonians 2:3 and verses 7-8 is classic Pauline literary style that is repetition and expansion on the idea. In both, a physical departure is in view. So a rapture is a reasoned conclusion. And in both of those passages, it is before the man of sin / antichrist / false messiah is revealed. As Dr. Woods likes to say.... "game, set, match".
I thought you said CoreIssue was hawking videos of Christian apologists explaining biblical teachings of rapture WITH scriptures? and now you accuse him of passively being in denial? Where is he "adding" to Revelation?You are in denial. And will continue adding to the book of Revelation unless you heed Jesus' words about the kingdom being spiritual.
If you cannot provide direct quotes to support what you say, you are lying.Twilight zone
You both add to Revelation unless you have direct quotes from Jesus supporting a physical kingdom. All other uses of scripture are removed from their context.I thought you said CoreIssue was hawking videos of Christian apologists explaining biblical teachings of rapture WITH scriptures? and now you accuse him of passively being in denial? Where is he "adding" to Revelation?
I proved the kingdom is spiritual = Amillennialism = no physical kingdom.
You bear false witness & attempt to slander me calling me a liar oh I'm shocked.If you cannot provide direct quotes to support what you say, you are lying.
If you are telling the truth, confirm it with scripture. The scripture I provide says you are not telling the truth.You bear false witness & attempt to slander me calling me a liar oh I'm shocked.
And , LOL! even you misrepresent what the word "lying" means--what a surprise. You are a false teacher Dave, because you are rabidly trying to spread your beliefs & attack the doctrines that contradict you and Christians that disagree with your views. I have never seen you on any forum just commenting like other posters, but your modus operandi is to start your threads to attack evangelical Christian beliefs.
The fact that I think it's the Twilight zone because you yourself only give negative "proof" for the false teachings you peddle or i.e. by saying our proving with scripture hasn't been posted when you seem to have purposely overlooked about 4-5 videos people have posted with biblical explanations, & scriptural teachings on the Rapture, then you have amnesia when the scripture 1Thess 4 is given to you-- You stating that it doesn't account for scripture about the rapture ( because you just ignore it) and how many of us need to post 1thess to you at the same time anyway?
Besides the fact that this same debate about the Rapture has been in multiple threads.
John 14:1-3 "14 “believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; I go to prepare a place for you. 3 If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also."
1Thess4 : 13 "But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters,about those who have died, so that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have died. 15 For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died.
16 For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call and with the sound of God’s trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever.
18 Therefore encourage one another with these words."
But some within Christendom prefer to attack or mock the brethren for believing these words instead. Funny I don't see the scripture for that directive, that some so called Christians are to mock others that believe in the rapture aka what 1THess 4 says is literal truth, but I do see scripture that says believers will be mocked for believing in His appearing.
I posted Jesus' own words without comment.No, you allegorized the scripture to extremes and violated the basic principles of hermeneutics to make it fit your world view. Be careful, one could be bordering on calling YHVH a liar.
The scripture I provide says you are not telling the truth.
If you are telling the truth, confirm it with scripture.
This outcome is not what the Bible tells us. It is a made up idea that supports the 'rapture' theory.That God will pour out a Spirit of grace upon them and they will eventually embrace their Messiah (see Zechariah 12:10) and live in Him.
I posted Jesus' own words without comment.
It is a made up idea that supports the 'rapture' theory.
It seems there is more 'rapture to heaven' believers here that those who deny such a thing. This is how it is generally, but having a majority does NOT mean they are right. Have you heard of the 50 million Frenchmen can't be wrong, joke?
The real proof that a 'rapture' removal is wrong, is the many prophesies that tell us what God does intend for His people in the end times.
There is many scriptures that say how the Lord will first clear and cleanse all the Middle East on His Day of fiery wrath, then the call will go out to every faithful Christian to travel to and settle in all of the holy Land, where we will be the people He always wanted there, but has never yet had.
THAT is our destiny and our great privilege!
These prophesies are plainly stated, I put them all on my website. Believe the truth, it will be much better for you when things get difficult.