Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists.

[CoreIssue]

I think the Second Coming is depicted in Zechariah 14:5. Zechariah 12:10 may be the time of being convinced of and acknowledging their grievous sin of rejecting their Messiah. I looked up the Hebrew in Strong's and the first meaning is to "look on"--true-- but the second meaning is to "pay attention to" or "regard". It follows the pouring out of the "spirit of grace and supplication". I am reminded of my husband's grandmother who, when reading of the Crucifixion, would weep and say, "Oh Lord Jesus, what they did to you." I think she definitely "looked on" Him. I was myself convinced of the truth while reading the Crucifixion account in the Gospel of John at about this time of the year. For just a moment, it felt as though I had been transported to the foot of the Cross.

Disagree.

In the tribulation Israel sees the AC as a savior and they flocked to him to make peace and cooperate.

Two thirds the Jews in Israel are killed.

Believing Jews are the woman Which are taken to a place of safety in Petra.

The Temple is in full function for three and half years. The two witnesses are at the Temple for three and half years until they are killed. At which time the world celebrates.

Zechariah 14:5 New International Version (NIV)
5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

Also the second coming. 12, 13 and 14Are all second coming.

There is absolutely no indicator that Israel will convert until the second coming when only one third are still alive.

 

[CoreIssue]

I would agree to some extent. The "great tribulation" within Daniel's 70th week is really only 3.5 years, the last half of Daniel's 70th week.

"At the Last Day" is a reference to the Day of the Lord. Just like "in that day" in many locations of the OT means the same thing. It is not a literal 24 hr day but a period of time when a lot of stuff is going down.

But there is ample support that the righteous are removed and hidden in the tabernacle of the Lord during this period. King David states that as does Isaiah, and Yeshua affirms what Isaiah says in John. That either has to be where the Lord is, unless there is an auxiliary tabernacle of the Lord set up in some place like Hoboken, New Jersey. And as for timing, the scripture says that it is before the man of sin / false messiah / antichrist is revealed. And he has to be revealed to enforce the covenant that starts Daniel's 70th week which is represented by seal one in Revelation 6.

And you can grow up and drop the character assassination tactics that the political world uses. You keep it up and we are going to be assured you are just a troll that has come in to disrupt the Body. Brothers and sisters in the body can disagree on details without laying false accusations of malicious intent (deception). You cannot know the heart of another and it is not in your pay grade to accuse them of being malicious. That is slander, pure and simple, and sin. Just stop doing it or it will be confirmed that you are not part of the body.

The whole seven years is the tribulation. The second half is called the great tribulation, but is still the tribulation.

The first 3 1/2 years has the seals and the trumpets. The second the bowls.

 

[bbyrd009]

your hinting at man’s long time quest to be AS God..

So essentially we see this "I" in the mirror one day and then form an ego around that, and bazinga you have a model/image that you think is "you"
when of course anyone you know could tell you different

so, we have a conundrum, we are presented evidence that our Me is a fiction, but our image of Me is Standing There where it should not be
ah, hence to living sacrifice I guess
after two men in a field maybe

 

[CoreIssue]

So essentially we see this "I" in the mirror one day and then form an ego around that, and bazinga you have a model/image that you think is "you"
when of course anyone you know could tell you different

so, we have a conundrum, we are presented evidence that our Me is a fiction, but our image of Me is Standing There where it should not be

You do realize the TV character you got bazinga from his anti-Christian is his TV role and in real life homosexual with a partner.

 

[Waiting on him]

The tribulation that Christians suffer from Satan and his minions, is NOT the same as the Tribulation which is a time of God's wrath and the wrath of the Lamb being poured out on those who belong to the world.

This is a ploy to insight fear.

 

[amadeus]

If you wish to do a map study here are a bunch:
Map the tribes of Israel at DuckDuckGo

Thanks. I saved the site!

 

[farouk]

This is a ploy to insight fear.

Matthew 24 speaks of the unique Great Tribulation; John 16 speaks of the general tribulation principle, but the Lord Jesus assures His followers, 'but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world'.

 

[bbyrd009]

You do realize the TV character you got bazinga from his anti-Christian is his TV role and in real life homosexual with a partner.

perfect fit then I guess
Two men in a bed

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Disagree.

In the tribulation Israel sees the AC as a savior and they flocked to him to make peace and cooperate.

Two thirds the Jews in Israel are killed.

Believing Jews are the woman Which are taken to a place of safety in Petra.

The Temple is in full function for three and half years. The two witnesses are at the Temple for three and half years until they are killed. At which time the world celebrates.

Zechariah 14:5 New International Version (NIV)
5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

Also the second coming. 12, 13 and 14Are all second coming.

There is absolutely no indicator that Israel will convert until the second coming when only one third are still alive.

Don't know if your last statement is correct--there's every indication that Israel's infatuation with the Antichrist will end when he performs the "abomination of desolation" in the Temple. (see Matthew 24:15) This appears to be a reference to Daniel 9:27---> "He [Antichrist] will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing [of the Temple] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him." Jesus continues in vs.16: "...[when they see the desecration] those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains." He then warns His hearers of false Messiahs seeking to fool God's chosen ones--if that were possible. He says that it is only after all of that and the celestial disturbances that will take place in the Great Tribulation (the second half of the Tribulation) will He come in great power and glory.(vs. 30) And He will send His angels to gather up His Elect (Chosen) of Israel (see Jeremiah 3:11-15). There will likely be a remnant of the Gentiles rescued at that time too. These are details that I'm not sure we need pay attention to for ourselves. But in witnessing to unbelievers who will be going through the Tribulation, it will give them hope to understand that they can know the exact timing of His return--it will happen 3.5 years from the signing of the covenant.

I don't know that this makes any difference, but Jesus said, in speaking to "doubting Thomas", "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed." (John 20:29)

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

This is a ploy to insight fear.

A "ploy" from whom?

 

[Dave L]

Physically, the Bible never says a Jew has to be a believer to be Israel.

Spiritually there's a whole other issue.

Replacement theology tries to make gentiles into Israel. It is false.

Most of Israel in the OT were wicked unbelievers with only a remnant of saved believers.

 

[Waiting on him]

A "ploy" from whom?

Anyone propagating a message of fear. Is in opposition to Christ!

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Anyone propagating a message of fear. Is in opposition to Christ!

Even if it comes from Jesus Himself? (see Matthew 24). Let me make sure I'm understanding you--are you accusing me of something?

 

[farouk]

Even if it comes from Jesus Himself? (see Matthew 24). Let me make sure I'm understanding you--are you accusing me of something?

The Lord Himself issued many warnings.

 

[tzcho2]

The "great tribulation" within Daniel's 70th week is really only 3.5 years,

That is what I believe also, Anti-Christ signs a 7yr covenant with Israel but breaks it in 3.5yrs, but it's still called the 7yr Trib. The Anti-Christ will then attempt to annilate the Jews and they will flee to Petra. It's what Jesus warned the Jews of in Matt 24.
Matt 24:15-22 " 15 So when you see standing in the holy place ‘theabomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand),16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.17“Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. 18“Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. 19“But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20“But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21“For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. 22“Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.…

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

That is what I believe also.

Yes, I agree that the GREAT Tribulation is only 3.5 years but I believe the entire Tribulation will be 7 years. See Daniel 9:27

 

[Keraz]

All the saints who have passed on -- both OT and NT -- are presently in Heaven. How did you miss that? And at the Resurrection/Rapture their souls and spirits will come with Christ to receive resurrected, immortal, glorified bodies, and then return to Heaven for the Marriage of the Lamb.

I missed it because such a thing as all the saints living in heaven is not in the Bible.
They all 'sleep' until he Day of Judgement, when God sits on the Great White Throne, after the Millennium. Proved by Daniel 12:13

You are a deceived dreamer to believe that all the saints will be resurrected at Jesus' Return. Revelation 20:4 makes it quite clear that only the Tribulation martyrs will come back to life, then.
As for the Marriage Supper, we are not told where that will happen.

Jesus will Return accompanied by His angel army. Matthew 16:27 & 25:31 He will bring those martyrs souls and our rewards with Him. Nothing else.

 

[farouk]

Yes, I agree that the GREAT Tribulation is only 3.5 years but I believe the entire Tribulation will be 7 years.

I think it's also important to distinguish between the Great Tribulation of Matthew 24 and the general tribulation principle in John 16 which exists in the world, which the Lord Jesus has overcome.

 

[CoreIssue]

Most of Israel in the OT were wicked unbelievers with only a remnant of saved believers.

But they were still in Israel, not Gentiles.

 

[Dave L]

But they were still in Israel, not Gentiles.

God removed these leaving only the believers who followed Christ.