Without unconditional Election,no one would be saved.

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

I forgive you.

No need … It is always a pleasure to speak truth openly and directly. We hoped you could try to actually answer directly, but it proved to be more than you could handle.

 

[Mjh29]

The very thing that I do...

However, you would disagree for that my rightly dividing the word leads me to a different conclusion than what you believe in, as a Calvinist.

I would suggest merely that you continue to study the word apart from the teachings of Calvin and/or those who subscribe to his doctrine...for the Bible is sufficient.

1Jo 2:27, But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

1.) Calvin and the Reformers are the ones God used to bring me to faith. I attended an Arminian church for most of my life, and got nothing out of it. At all. They preached "Choose Jesus" every Sunday morning and Evening, and at every singe Bible study on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. I was convinced I had chosen Jesus, and was safe. Then, I attended a Reformed Church with one of my friends, and was shocked to hear the pastor preaching Christ's works and His Righteousness, and condemning the works of the flesh. It was overwhelming to realize that all my life, my only assurance was in my own work, and had all but ignored Christ since then. I didn't read my Bible, or pray, or even think about Christ at all during the week. That was the day that Christ saved me. I didn't know about Calvin, Luther, or any of the others until I asked the pastor to recommend books from the library. He gave me many books they had multiple copies of, and that is where I learned of Reformed theology.

2.) Many a heresy has arisen because of studying the Scriptures without consulting others who have tread the same path, and by standing by your own interpretation as absolute; especially when that interpretation is based on choice verses pulled out of context.

 

[justbyfaith]

No need … It is always a pleasure to speak truth openly and directly. We hoped you could try to actually answer directly, but it proved to be more than you could handle.

There is a need...for there is sin in your camp.

 

[farouk]

1.) Calvin and the Reformers are the ones God used to bring me to faith. I attended an Arminian church for most of my life, and got nothing out of it. At all. They preached "Choose Jesus" every Sunday morning and Evening, and at every singe Bible study on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. I was convinced I had chosen Jesus, and was safe. Then, I attended a Reformed Church with one of my friends, and was shocked to hear the pastor preaching Christ's works and His Righteousness, and condemning the works of the flesh. It was overwhelming to realize that all my life, my only assurance was in my own work, and had all but ignored Christ since then. I didn't read my Bible, or pray, or even think about Christ at all during the week. That was the day that Christ saved me. I didn't know about Calvin, Luther, or any of the others until I asked the pastor to recommend books from the library. He gave me many books they had multiple copies of, and that is where I learned of Reformed theology.

2.) Many a heresy has arisen because of studying the Scriptures without consulting others who have tread the same path, and by standing by your own interpretation as absolute; especially when that interpretation is based on choice verses pulled out of context.

Romans and Ephesians, when read carefully, are very searching, and God-centred.

 

[justbyfaith]

1.) Calvin and the Reformers are the ones God used to bring me to faith. I attended an Arminian church for most of my life, and got nothing out of it. At all. They preached "Choose Jesus" every Sunday morning and Evening, and at every singe Bible study on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. I was convinced I had chosen Jesus, and was safe. Then, I attended a Reformed Church with one of my friends, and was shocked to hear the pastor preaching Christ's works and His Righteousness, and condemning the works of the flesh. It was overwhelming to realize that all my life, my only assurance was in my own work, and had all but ignored Christ since then. I didn't read my Bible, or pray, or even think about Christ at all during the week. That was the day that Christ saved me. I didn't know about Calvin, Luther, or any of the others until I asked the pastor to recommend books from the library. He gave me many books they had multiple copies of, and that is where I learned of Reformed theology.

2.) Many a heresy has arisen because of studying the Scriptures without consulting others who have tread the same path, and by standing by your own interpretation as absolute; especially when that interpretation is based on choice verses pulled out of context.

I received Christ when I was faced with a decision. I couldn't sit on the fence any longer, as I was being tempted to sell my soul to the devil. I said very simply in that instance, "God, I don't know if You're real; but I'm going to start reading Your word and doing what it says; and I know that if You're real You will reveal Yourself to me." God didn't wait another second: He came upon me in waves of liquid love that lasted for about four minutes. I thought that I was in heaven, face to face with the Lord. I said, "I have to go back and tell people about this love."

But it occurred because I made a decision to begin to obey the word of the Lord.

(I might have gone in the other direction and sold my soul to the devil; but God brought to remembrance the scripture that I had previously heard in church, What shall it profit a man if he shall gain the whole world and yet forfeit his soul?)

Later, I heard the gospel preached more clearly, at a Bible conference where the main theme was 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. It was because of this that I later received the righteousness of Christ, more than the being filled with righteousness that took place previous to that because I hungered and thirsted for it.

I believe that the Lord apprehended me in both cases; however, in both cases there was also a decision that was made on my part not to reject the testimony that was preached.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

1.) Calvin and the Reformers are the ones God used to bring me to faith. I attended an Arminian church for most of my life, and got nothing out of it. At all. They preached "Choose Jesus" every Sunday morning and Evening, and at every singe Bible study on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. I was convinced I had chosen Jesus, and was safe. Then, I attended a Reformed Church with one of my friends, and was shocked to hear the pastor preaching Christ's works and His Righteousness, and condemning the works of the flesh. It was overwhelming to realize that all my life, my only assurance was in my own work, and had all but ignored Christ since then. I didn't read my Bible, or pray, or even think about Christ at all during the week. That was the day that Christ saved me. I didn't know about Calvin, Luther, or any of the others until I asked the pastor to recommend books from the library. He gave me many books they had multiple copies of, and that is where I learned of Reformed theology.

2.) Many a heresy has arisen because of studying the Scriptures without consulting others who have tread the same path, and by standing by your own interpretation as absolute; especially when that interpretation is based on choice verses pulled out of context.

Amen brother! I have to admit it, and I've tried, but I get nothing out of Arminian (non-Reformed) preachers. Once I heard of TULIP, then in my mind and out loud talking to my wife I was hashing it out. Then seeing it in Scripture, again, and again, and again, and the light came on, then one night I literally bowed my knees beside the bed and gave him all the Glory as LORD! I knew something was wrong when I was not Reformed. There was something missing about God, and there was such a cursory, shallow, preschool-ish something about the gospel of choosing and free will decisionalism that didn't sit right with me at all.

There is no better true preaching than that of the Reformed brothers. Probably my favorite expositor of all time is D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones. I really enjoy listening to him when it's time to mow which takes a lot of time.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

I received Christ when I was faced with a decision. I couldn't sit on the fence any longer, as I was being tempted to sell my soul to the devil. I said very simply in that instance, "God, I don't know if You're real; but I'm going to start reading Your word and doing what it says; and I know that if You're real You will reveal Yourself to me." God didn't wait another second: He came upon me in waves of liquid love that lasted for about four minutes. I thought that I was in heaven, face to face with the Lord. I said, "I have to go back and tell people about this love."

But it occurred because I made a decision to begin to obey the word of the Lord.

(I might have gone in the other direction and sold my soul to the devil; but God brought to remembrance the scripture that I had previously heard in church, What shall it profit a man if he shall gain the whole world and yet forfeit his soul?)

Later, I heard the gospel preached more clearly, at a Bible conference where the main theme was 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. It was because of this that I later received the righteousness of Christ, more than the being filled with righteousness that took place previous to that because I hungered and thirsted for it.

I believe that the Lord apprehended me in both cases; however, in both cases there was also a decision that was made on my part not to reject the testimony that was preached.

Yep, all because of you and your decision, and choice, by your favorite subject, yourself.

1) You were not about to sell a thing to the devil. Your soul isn't yours, or the devils, it's God's; Ezekiel 18:4.

2) No one is saved via decision; John 1:13. This includes you.

3) You're failing miserably in your studying of the word and instead, peddle it, and use underhanded ways while tampering with it; 2 Corinthians 2:17; 2 Corinthians 4:1-2. By your own admission you've stated you're too lazy to read a whole chapter so you just take a verse out of context instead. That my friend is a wholesale failure on your part.

 

[Jun2u]

1.) Calvin and the Reformers are the ones God used to bring me to faith. I attended an Arminian church for most of my life, and got nothing out of it. At all. They preached "Choose Jesus" every Sunday morning and Evening, and at every singe Bible study on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. I was convinced I had chosen Jesus, and was safe. Then, I attended a Reformed Church with one of my friends, and was shocked to hear the pastor preaching Christ's works and His Righteousness, and condemning the works of the flesh. It was overwhelming to realize that all my life, my only assurance was in my own work, and had all but ignored Christ since then. I didn't read my Bible, or pray, or even think about Christ at all during the week. That was the day that Christ saved me. I didn't know about Calvin, Luther, or any of the others until I asked the pastor to recommend books from the library. He gave me many books they had multiple copies of, and that is where I learned of Reformed theology.

2.) Many a heresy has arisen because of studying the Scriptures without consulting others who have tread the same path, and by standing by your own interpretation as absolute; especially when that interpretation is based on choice verses pulled out of context.

I, too experienced what you went through. I thought I had become saved when the Pastor asked that if anyone would like to come forward and be saved. For the first few months there was no change in me. I still felt miserable. WasGod drawing me at this point?

Yes, because one night I just fell on my knees beside the bed and asked God to save me. After that night I went to a tiny little church close by my house and I’ve stayed there since. It was a reformed believing church and until this day I praise God for saving a wretched like me. I’ve never been so happy in all of my life. Glory alleluia.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

justbyfaith,

[What we are defending is the way in to salvation.]
okay....that is good

[In Calvinism, the way in becomes unnecessary according to the doctrine; while in reality the way in is still necessary.]

No biblical Calvinist teaches this.This is false , a strawman, a caricature.
Why would you post such a thing?
When any Cal reads this they know you have not read or sat under any Calvinistic teaching as soon as you say this'
www.sermonaudio.com is loaded with sermons with Calvinist preachers urging sinners to flee from the wrath to come.

[Therefore people are left with the impression that they don't have to enter in through the door but that the Lord will suddenly teleport them and they will suddenly be dwelling in their mansion. That they will suddenly be found in grace apart from faith.]

I know none of the Cals on here teach anything like this. In fact they would jump on any such poster more then you have been grilled.

[While the scripture teaches the reality that a person must enter in to grace by their faith in Jesus Christ.]

Grace and faith are given as part of the gift of salvation. you do not enter into grace, you do not have inherent faith.
[ Therefore if a person thinks that they don't have to enter in through the door, they will be deluded; ]

can you provide one or two quotes of any cal on here you posted such an idea???

And then the proponents of the doctrine resort to bullying tactics in order to try to get their opponents to give up.

Sorry if you think that. What actually happened is you made an accusation...the cals to a man backed it up left and right. You were challenged directly to respond to the answers you were given, but you failed to do so. Your posting like this above is wrong. We offer to show you why it is wrong, but you fight instead of interacting.

[It becomes not worth it to even continue because the proponents of Calvinism, in order to defend their erroneous doctrine, will fight to discredit the bearers of the truth concerning their doctrine;]

You were directly challenged to respond to two posts in particular and you did everything but respond, because you know you cannot back up your statement. you can still respond, there is no time limit, go for it....go line by line and show if you can how what I posted was not correct.

[ to the point that it becomes even ridiculous the way they exhibit behaviour that is un-Christ-like to the core.]

You poked everyone in the eye with a stick, they did not like that and took on your challenge. As soon as they turned on you with scripture, you played the victim, rather than stand your ground.

[And then they expect people to believe in their doctrine, even though Jesus said, You will know them by their fruits.]

The doctrine belongs to God who gave it. If we error you need to show it scripturally which you have began to do. We have showed you some but you cannot seem to handle it.

 

[SovereignGrace]

There is a need...for there is sin in your camp.

So, do you listen to your pastor when he preaches?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

justbyfaith,

[What we are defending is the way in to salvation.]
okay....that is good

[In Calvinism, the way in becomes unnecessary according to the doctrine; while in reality the way in is still necessary.]

No biblical Calvinist teaches this.This is false , a strawman, a caricature.
Why would you post such a thing?
When any Cal reads this they know you have not read or sat under any Calvinistic teaching as soon as you say this'
www.sermonaudio.com is loaded with sermons with Calvinist preachers urging sinners to flee from the wrath to come.

[Therefore people are left with the impression that they don't have to enter in through the door but that the Lord will suddenly teleport them and they will suddenly be dwelling in their mansion. That they will suddenly be found in grace apart from faith.]

I know none of the Cals on here teach anything like this. In fact they would jump on any such poster more then you have been grilled.

[While the scripture teaches the reality that a person must enter in to grace by their faith in Jesus Christ.]

Grace and faith are given as part of the gift of salvation. you do not enter into grace, you do not have inherent faith.
[ Therefore if a person thinks that they don't have to enter in through the door, they will be deluded; ]

can you provide one or two quotes of any cal on here you posted such an idea???

And then the proponents of the doctrine resort to bullying tactics in order to try to get their opponents to give up.

Sorry if you think that. What actually happened is you made an accusation...the cals to a man backed it up left and right. You were challenged directly to respond to the answers you were given, but you failed to do so. Your posting like this above is wrong. We offer to show you why it is wrong, but you fight instead of interacting.

[It becomes not worth it to even continue because the proponents of Calvinism, in order to defend their erroneous doctrine, will fight to discredit the bearers of the truth concerning their doctrine;]

You were directly challenged to respond to two posts in particular and you did everything but respond, because you know you cannot back up your statement. you can still respond, there is no time limit, go for it....go line by line and show if you can how what I posted was not correct.

[ to the point that it becomes even ridiculous the way they exhibit behaviour that is un-Christ-like to the core.]

You poked everyone in the eye with a stick, they did not like that and took on your challenge. As soon as they turned on you with scripture, you played the victim, rather than stand your ground.

[And then they expect people to believe in their doctrine, even though Jesus said, You will know them by their fruits.]

The doctrine belongs to God who gave it. If we error you need to show it scripturally which you have began to do. We have showed you some but you cannot seem to handle it.

Well, @justbyfaith just offered up a huge dose of what we don't teach or believe. He does not listen.

 

[Dave L]

I received Christ when I was faced with a decision. I couldn't sit on the fence any longer, as I was being tempted to sell my soul to the devil. I said very simply in that instance, "God, I don't know if You're real; but I'm going to start reading Your word and doing what it says; and I know that if You're real You will reveal Yourself to me." God didn't wait another second: He came upon me in waves of liquid love that lasted for about four minutes. I thought that I was in heaven, face to face with the Lord. I said, "I have to go back and tell people about this love."

But it occurred because I made a decision to begin to obey the word of the Lord.

(I might have gone in the other direction and sold my soul to the devil; but God brought to remembrance the scripture that I had previously heard in church, What shall it profit a man if he shall gain the whole world and yet forfeit his soul?)

Later, I heard the gospel preached more clearly, at a Bible conference where the main theme was 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. It was because of this that I later received the righteousness of Christ, more than the being filled with righteousness that took place previous to that because I hungered and thirsted for it.

I believe that the Lord apprehended me in both cases; however, in both cases there was also a decision that was made on my part not to reject the testimony that was preached.

Your decision was to repent. Which is what every saved person decides to do. But you must believe before you repent or you would not repent. People only believe by grace as a result of being born again. So either you are saved and confused about the "Christian facts of life" and how you got here, or you are deceived thinking you are saved because of your own self righteous acts.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

So, do you listen to your pastor when he preaches?

Let's help our opponent to see the truth here, or, at the very least others. Here are texts that speak of how we deal with and honor those who preach. Please take time to be corrected and look at this:

Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. -- 1 Timothy 5:17

We ask you, brothers, to respect those who labor among you and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, and to esteem them very highly in love because of their work. Be at peace among yourselves. -- 1 Thessalonians 5:12-13

(@justbyfaith needs to look at 1 Thessalonians 5:14 as well as a warning to him. )

Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you. -- Hebrews 13:17

And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, Ephesians 4:11-12

(@justbyfaith needs to look at Ephesians 4:14 as well as a warning to him. )

As we can plainly see in the above texts, and there are plenty more, we are to learn from, listen to, be taught from, while holding in high regard, pastors, teachers who labor in the word. Hint: These teach and hold to contextually exegeted and interpreted Scripture; 2 Timothy 2:15. They do not practice what is condemned in 2 Corinthians 2:17 and 2 Corinthians 4:2. If they do not practice this, they should not be preaching, and get ready for this: they should not be teaching anything on a forum, or anywhere else. Note James 3:1.

THEREFORE this text: But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him. 1 John 2:27 does not mean, and cannot mean we do not need teachers, are not to listen to teachers, or, that all we need is God and our Bible and none other. God has not set it up this way, no man is an island. We are unified as a body of believers under the truth, Jude 1:3; Ephesians 4 &c. It then must mean something else than this, so, the interpreter must understand the CONTEXT, background, audience, subject, author. You do not just take a verse out of context, and @justbyfaith has admitted he is TOO LAZY to read the whole chapter because he says VERSES STAND ALONE. They do not, and such is being DISOBEDIENT to Christ to do so, again, 2 Timothy 2:15!

This is then how to implement 2 Timothy 2:15, comparing Scripture with Scripture. If other texts refute your interpretation of a verse, adjust your interpretation and find the true meaning!

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Your decision was to repent. Which is what every saved person decides to do. But you must believe before you repent or you would not repent. People only believe by grace as a result of being born again. So either you are saved and confused about the "Christian facts of life" and how you got here, or you are deceived thinking you are saved because of your own self righteous acts.

We have to distinguish between being a believer who has unChristian teachings, and one who is unconverted, an unbeliever. His teachings are unChristian, unbiblical, that's a fact. This does not mean he is lost. Yet his behavior and outright rebellion to the Gospel is of great concern...

 

[Dave L]

We have to distinguish between being a believer who has unChristian teachings, and one who is unconverted, an unbeliever. His teachings are unChristian, unbiblical, that's a fact. This does not mean he is lost. Yet his behavior and outright rebellion to the Gospel is of great concern...

But the Reformers were all heretics originally.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

But the Reformers were all heretics originally.

I believe all those truly converted will come to repentance; 2 Peter 3:9; the knowledge of the truth; 1 Timothy 2:4; and have their understanding opened to true things of God; Ephesians 1:15-23; Matthew 11:25-30.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I believe all those truly converted will come to repentance; 2 Peter 3:9; the knowledge of the truth; 1 Timothy 2:4; and have their understanding opened to true things of God; Ephesians 1:15-23; Matthew 11:25-30.

Agreed.

Now, I hope @justbyfaith answers my question...

Do you, @justbyfaith, listen to your pastor preach?

 

[justbyfaith]

[In Calvinism, the way in becomes unnecessary according to the doctrine; while in reality the way in is still necessary.]

No biblical Calvinist teaches this.This is false , a strawman, a caricature.
Why would you post such a thing?
When any Cal reads this they know you have not read or sat under any Calvinistic teaching as soon as you say this'

[Therefore people are left with the impression that they don't have to enter in through the door but that the Lord will suddenly teleport them and they will suddenly be dwelling in their mansion. That they will suddenly be found in grace apart from faith.]

I know none of the Cals on here teach anything like this.

They teach that grace comes before faith, which would bring someone to that conclusion by implication.

[ Therefore if a person thinks that they don't have to enter in through the door, they will be deluded; ]

can you provide one or two quotes of any cal on here you posted such an idea???

If you want to insist on it I might be able to dredge them up...but I would rather not have to go to the trouble of doing so.

You were directly challenged to respond to two posts in particular and you did everything but respond,

I feel that I did respond, and that because you did not have an adequate response for what I said, you have repeatedly claimed and are claiming that I didn't.

 

[justbyfaith]

Do you, @justbyfaith, listen to your pastor preach?

Yes, but I take everything he says with a grain of salt.

There is a place for teachers in the body of Christ; but we are to rely on the unction and anointing of the Holy Ghost when making our conclusions about what is being taught:

1Jo 2:20, But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
1Jo 2:21, I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

1Jo 2:27, But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Yes, but I take everything he says with a grain of salt.

There is a place for teachers in the body of Christ; but we are to rely on the unction and anointing of the Holy Ghost when making our conclusions about what is being taught:

1Jo 2:20, But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
1Jo 2:21, I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

1Jo 2:27, But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

God has given us teachers to help guide us along the way. Yes, the Holy Spirit is first and foremost, but preachers, teachers, bible study, &c. are very necessary.

It’s never wise to fly solo in one’s study of God’s word.