Why the cross actually saves

[justbyfaith]

And Romans 8 as well.

Please elaborate.

 

[CoreIssue]

Please elaborate.

Because it addresses salvation by free will and OSAS

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Jesus couldn't sin but had to "learn obedience" anyway? Why?

Jesus couldn't sin but almost died twice fighting temptation both in the wilderness after His baptism and also in Gethsemane when He pleaded over and over for His Father to deliver Him from the agony and suffering of the Cross that His path of obedience would soon lead Him to?

Jesus' words in many places about keeping His Father's commandments and doing His will were just for show and bragging rights then, since there was no chance whatsoever of Him failing to keep them?

I can relate to Hebrews 5:8 because even though I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, the seed of the Father, and became born again in 1977, there were parts of "obedience" that needed to be perfected in me. That came through suffering for 12 years.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Amen! Just bragging rights for something that was no great feat? Nope, He overcame sin.

Which kind of "sin" are you referring to when you say Christ overcame sin? There is a type of sin Christ was incapable of, just as we are incapable of committing if we have the seed of the Father. So what other type of sin is there that needs to be "overcome"?

 

[APAK]

Actually John the Baptist was born with the indwelling Holy Spirit, but it wasn't his role to do anything but prepare the way for the Messiah through his preaching repentance.

Yes, correct and more specifically he had the spirit of Elijah of the Holy Spirit at birth, and that spirit was for that function and personality you cited.
Bless you, APAK

 

[APAK]

The cross saves us in this life when we are nailed to it.

Yes, we were chosen by God the Father given the faith as a gift, to decide to shed our old man and 'kill it off' hanging on the cross as Christ did, as we have now 'taken on Christ' when we became saved. Now we proceed in holy work in cooperation with his spirit to grow and mature in him. We just cannot sit still and say be are now saved and that is that. No one wants to stay as a baby carnal Christian I hope...Bless you..APAK

 

[SovereignGrace]

I don't understand your reply. I think I said that anyone who actually puts their faith in the work of God (Jesus) on the cross will be saved

Jesus actually paid for the sins of the whole world. If not then God is unfair. That is not just a saying of mine. The scriptures also say it.

Jesus paid for a full pardon for all who will place their faith in His work on the cross. But, as I posted, mankind refuses to believe their pardon and would rather do works to be saved, just as Cain did.

If He pardoned everybody whoever lived on the cross then everybody whoever lived is saved.

Here’s the definitions of pardon...

—the excusing of an offense without exacting a penalty
—a release from the legal penalties of an offense
—an official warrant of remission of penalty
—excuse or forgiveness for a fault, offense, or discourtesy

If He fully pardoned everybody whoever lived by dying on the cross, then everybody whoever lived have been released from the penalty of their sins, their sins have been remitted, their sins have been forgiven.

Say a guy gets pardoned and then the judge denies it and sentences him to life in prison with no chance for parole. Ppl would be screaming about such injustice.

Look at Matthew 25:31ff. Those on the left were pardoned by your’s and other’s belief. Yet, God will reject it and cast them headlong into the lake of fire.

If they’ve been fully pardoned, they’re saved. Ppl need to learn more about the power of the cross.

 

[SovereignGrace]

When dealing with the nature of Christ, we mustn't presume. He was 100% man and 100% God and that is something we're never going to be able to explain but have to accept by faith. His divine nature could not sin, but in His humanity, He could most certainly have sinned, which is why He sweat "as it were great drops of blood." He was fighting the temptation to run from Calvary and all the horrible suffering, the weight of the sin of the world, the separation from His Father that awaited Him there.

And if He could have sinned in His flesh, He’s no better than Moses. You can’t divorce His divinity from His humanity.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

If so, then you too "voted yourself" in.

Nope, I don't foolishly claim any of this as you do. God chose all the elect into his golden chain of redemption according to Romans 8:28-39.

You admit you did it yourself in your own ability, which Christ spoke of in John 10 concerning those who don't enter through Him, the gate to the sheepfold.

Therefore you cannot claim Romans 8 for yourself since it is concerning those whom God elected, not those who climbed into the sheepfold in their own ability.

You remind me of one of the characters Christian met on his way to the Celestial City who came in his own ability, or, so he thought. If I recall correctly this character was named Ignorance, and he too despised God's way of salvation, and spoke much of himself, and his works, or more precisely how he voted himself into the fold.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You're just showing your ignorance and rejection of the Gospel. You perpetually point to what you've done, rarely, if ever, Christ. We point to Christ; and him alone, 1 Corinthians 1:26-31.

But do tell us more about how you saved yourself and condemn God as unjust.

Since when have we stated God decreed anyone for damnation? @Enoch111 accused of of holding that belief. Ignorance of our beliefs yet again. Man, the local hardware store must be having a sale on straw.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Since when have we stated God decreed anyone for damnation? @Enoch111 accused of of holding that belief. Ignorance of our beliefs yet again. Man, the local hardware store must be having a sale on straw.

They thrive in false accusations, false assertions, and a false gospel of their own abilities.

 

[SovereignGrace]

AGREE.
Where was the glory? Where was the Victory if Jesus couldn't not slip, fall, or sin?

He became a man.
Satan caused Adam the man, to sin and fall...
....Jesus , as a man, 'the last Adam' , faced off against Satan in the wilderness as a man, and took back what Adam the man, lost.

Anything else could not have legally reversed the fall of Adam on our behalf.

The first Adam was of the earth, earthly. He was created fallible, not infallible. The last Adam was not created. It amazes me how ppl deify the Christ.

 

[SovereignGrace]

They thrive in false accusations, false assertions, and a false gospel of their own abilities.

Now “ByGrace” is saying the Christ could have sinned.

 

[CoreIssue]

Actually John the Baptist was born with the indwelling Holy Spirit, but it wasn't his role to do anything but prepare the way for the Messiah through his preaching repentance.

Nobody was indwelt by the Holy Spirit until after Christ ascended.

Prior to the Holy Spirit so on people for different periods of time and then left. But not in.

 

[Phoneman777]

possible you have some good thoughts and i cant prove the sweat as of great drops of blood was the temptation to run from Calvary.

I can.

5:7 "Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him..."

Jesus was petrified of the Cross and all that awaited Him there, so much so that He prayed three times for deliverance from it while the anguish caused Him to almost die and sweat great drops of blood.

Be assured, though, that the moment He overcame the temptation to run from Calvary and gained His greatest victory was recorded, "Nevertheless, not My will but Thy will be done." It was then He had made peace and accepted His fate trusting only in the promises of Him "that was able to save Him from death."

 

[CoreIssue]

The first Adam was of the earth, earthly. He was created fallible, not infallible. The last Adam was not created. It amazes me how ppl deify the Christ.

Last Adam was most assuredly created, meaning his flesh, not his spirit. That is why he is called the son of God just as the first Adam was son of God.

 

[SovereignGrace]

They thrive in false accusations, false assertions, and a false gospel of their own abilities.

They say the Christ pardoned everybody on the cross. Pardoned means to be released from the penalty of their crime(s) committed. Then all go to heaven. Universal atonement = universal salvation.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Now “ByGrace” is saying the Christ could have sinned.

No surprise there bro.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I can.

5:7 "Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

So, He literally was made perfect after He learned obedience? That’s not God in the flesh if He was.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

They say the Christ pardoned everybody on the cross. Pardoned means to be released from the penalty of their crime(s) committed. Then all go to heaven. Universal atonement = universal salvation.

Of course.

According to them, God knew everyone who would vote for him, so rewarded them with salvation, yet paid the sin debt of all in hell too, but they're paying the debt that was paid in full by Christ and accepted by the Father.

I suppose logically that would make the debt and sacrifice for them that was accepted by the Father as now insufficient and a fail.