Here we go - Slavery

[Taken]

I understand this. Are you saying that it is right for this to happen to people?

Why ask IF I said something I DID NOT SAY?
Not once did I condone Theft.

Yes. They were unruly at times to be sure but other methods besides beating

And? So, you "thought" and you "believed" and you "chose" another method of punishment. So? For others, when an alternative method does not correct the behavior.....corporal punishment is an option.
Surely you must comprehend "beat" is subjective...eh?

A whack on the hand a couple of times with a ruler could be considered beating, teaching little children to keep their hands off others possessions, when WORDS were not enough to convince them to keep THEIR hands to THEMSLEVES.
And so also could a 2x4 across the back be considered a beating.

I did not mean they thought for themselves since they were born. Come on you know I did not mean that.

That's the point. Say what you mean, and mean what you say.

They are taught how to think for themselves,

I am not against Teaching a kid to Think for themselves.

However I would Find your Influence of Disbelief, highly doubtful, it is you who encourages them to read and study the knowlege in Scripture.

they still have rules to follow but explaining why there are rules to them allows them to think for themselves and to think of others, how their actions affects others. Beating a child may get them to obey at the moment but that won't last into adulthood. Explaining to them why they are being punished and why there are rules will let them contemplate and think about things in a way that beating them won't.

Well, good to know, YOU thought, YOU decided, YOU chose, according to what rules YOU would raise your children.

And BTW, notifying a child OF the rules, and the Consequences for Violating the Rules, IS taught in Scripture, by Gods Own Example.
He sets the rules, and every obedience TO the Rule, Has a consequence of favor and every disobedience TO the Rule has a consequence of punishment.

The Favor Increases as the child matures and exhibits obedience.
The Punishment Increases as the child matures and exhibits disobedience.

Why do you not read what I actually say? I never said we don't have rules or consequences I said beating them is not a consequence we think is moral. That's all.

But nothing says it is about MORALITY, but rather that is your Opinion.

It has nothing to do with MORALITY.
It has to do with one subjecting themselves WILLINGLY to Authority or NOT.

Either the Parent IS the Authority in "HIS" own Household, or he Isn't.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[ScottA]

Hmm, did He have like a card or something, Scott?
How the heck do you know who it was wadr, what qualifications are you going by, if i may ask ty. What "name" did you call? What "answer" did you get, specifically, Scott? Does it contradict Scripture at every turn too?

Apparently, this has not happened to you... I mean, your sarcasm is almost defiant or with a challenge, as if with a certainty it would appear you don't actually have.

One may not know Satan from Adam, but one knows God from Satan. I called him God. The answer was something even Satan cannot do. I was caught up in the spirit, quite exactly as described in scripture. As I already said, he then showed me many things, and then confirmed it all with his own words in scripture, in spirit, which he has continued to do ever since. No contradictions.

 

[ScottA]

Got nothing on the top one? Zero, nada, zilch? That is a big neon mark of where your confidence is, wadr.

Not at all sure what you mean here.

No offense but 3 nihilists have already committed suicide after little chats with me, and i was being nice, it was irl, i didn't do much more than Quote tbh. Tried to solely do that, even. They were good friends. So maybe better if we don't interact too much, ok

That is most unfortunate. But listen to you...you don't exactly come off like a lifesaver. But don't get me wrong, or be offended - you nor any of us have the power of life and death - it wasn't anything you said. At best, you did nothing, because you can do nothing.

Quoting is good. And it is not beyond the gifts given by Christ to heal, or even raise the dead. But it is not you.

Nonetheless, we can and should be honest, and give an answer, if we have it in us...if it has been given to us. If not, we are better only to hold hands, cry, listen, and never, ever, speculate based on our own understanding. The rest is God's part.

 

[ScottA]

How do I tell the difference? There is no way to tell the difference.

That is correct...with men there is no way to tell the difference. Only with God, can you know God from all that is false.

Seek Him.

But I already know that you have tried. It's just that, bailing part way through the time that God has allotted for you to be set aright, is not enough. The whole point of your decision being a life-long commitment...is, that is the only truth with regard to what it is that you are made of, and who's camp you belong in. Just be yourself. But it will have to be with conviction. "Conviction", because that is how this life works, you will be held accountable. We all will. This is our time of decision spoken of in the scriptures.

 

[bbyrd009]

Apparently, this has not happened to you...

let's get back to this um opening deflection in a sec, we weren't talking about me but we certainly can

I mean, your sarcasm is almost defiant or with a challenge, as if with a certainty it would appear you don't actually have.

word up, yeh, when I get repeated deflections and ignoring of simple Qs the bells just start ringing, Scott. The only reason I am replying herenow is bc I tend to be suspicious of believers now, having been BSed so much...nah, I just tend to get an opinion and then see the worst when it might just be...other things, poor lexicon maybe, SiT, any number of things could be going on I guess. I do not know

One may not know Satan from Adam, but one knows God from Satan.

so you say, but once again wadr cannot Quote. Please try and catch me contradicting Scripture one time today, I would appreciate it

I called him God.

yes, this is a major sign imo, a BIG tell. satan appears as an angel of light

The answer was something even Satan cannot do.

and you're convinced of this, no qualifications or anything, so see when I go dig up the vv you are contradicting you wont even see it I guess. and that takes from me Scott. not saying I mind doing it, but I don't wanna do it for nothing, ok. I would encourage you to reject your premise here and seek how it might very well be something satan is designed to do

As I already said, he then showed me many things, and then confirmed it all with his own words in scripture, in spirit, which he has continued to do ever since. No contradictions.

no contradictions as far as you are concerned you mean, i'm sure. ok

its been a minute since I got your pov on what happens after you lit die, if you could. Not interested in replying even, just want your perspective there, ty.

 

[bbyrd009]

At best, you did nothing, because you can do nothing.

Ah. Fwiw this is my complaint against you in a nutshell, right here. gods do not sit around and do nothing, Scottie. That is Believers you are talking about I guess

you nor any of us have the power of life and death

The power of life and death is in the tongue, mr A, oops again bro, and that is my cue i guess. See ya ok

 

[Vince]

That is correct...with men there is no way to tell the difference. Only with God, can you know God from all that is false.

Seek Him.

But I already know that you have tried. It's just that, bailing part way through the time that God has allotted for you to be set aright, is not enough. The whole point of your decision being a life-long commitment...is, that is the only truth with regard to what it is that you are made of, and who's camp you belong in. Just be yourself. But it will have to be with conviction. "Conviction", because that is how this life works, you will be held accountable. We all will. This is our time of decision spoken of in the scriptures.

Yes and Muslims can make this same claim. So which god do I seek after?

 

[Vince]

Why ask IF I said something I DID NOT SAY?
Not once did I condone Theft.

And? So, you "thought" and you "believed" and you "chose" another method of punishment. So? For others, when an alternative method does not correct the behavior.....corporal punishment is an option.
Surely you must comprehend "beat" is subjective...eh?

A whack on the hand a couple of times with a ruler could be considered beating, teaching little children to keep their hands off others possessions, when WORDS were not enough to convince them to keep THEIR hands to THEMSLEVES.
And so also could a 2x4 across the back be considered a beating.

We are talking specifically about the beating of slaves that god condones in Exodus 21.

Well, good to know, YOU thought, YOU decided, YOU chose, according to what rules YOU would raise your children.

Of course.

And BTW, notifying a child OF the rules, and the Consequences for Violating the Rules, IS taught in Scripture, by Gods Own Example.
He sets the rules, and every obedience TO the Rule, Has a consequence of favor and every disobedience TO the Rule has a consequence of punishment.

Yes eternal torment in hell for something we cannot help, original sin and all. The punishment must fit the disobedience. I know I know the apologetic here but it does not wash.

The Favor Increases as the child matures and exhibits obedience.
The Punishment Increases as the child matures and exhibits disobedience.

The punishment needs to be congruent with the disobedience or it is just cruel.

But nothing says it is about MORALITY, but rather that is your Opinion.

It has nothing to do with MORALITY.
It has to do with one subjecting themselves WILLINGLY to Authority or NOT.

Either the Parent IS the Authority in "HIS" own Household, or he Isn't.

I am the authority with my wife, having authority does not mean you need to abuse it. Submitting to authority is good as long as that authority is moral and just, otherwise submitting to authority that is cruel and unjust because a book says so is ridiculous and harmful. Should a child stay under the authority of a father that abuses them?

 

[bbyrd009]

Vince you do get that they were under the Law in the OT Bc it needed to be proven to them that it was inadequate, and would fail, right? So your premise is wadr faulty on multiple levels, i think

Not at all sure what you mean here.

no, course not. But see you are not asking, and i already know from experience--same thing goin on right this second with another member, in fact--that when I piss away ten minutes clarifying you still are not going to "be sure," see. I am sure of this.

fwiw "I called God by name" is...an oxymoron, ok,
My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?

 

[Taken]

We are talking specifically about the beating of slaves that god condones in Exodus 21.

Could you QUOTE the exact verses in Exodus 21 that you are talking about?

Yes eternal torment in hell for something we cannot help, original sin and all. The punishment must fit the disobedience. I know I know the apologetic here but it does not wash.

What do you think the eternal Torment IS?
Who should be accountable for your choices?

The punishment needs to be congruent with the disobedience or it is just cruel.

And what exactly do you believe would be suitable punishment for men who reject God?

Should a child stay under the authority of a father that abuses them?

Abuse is subjective. What does abuse mean to you?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[ScottA]

let's get back to this um opening deflection in a sec, we weren't talking about me but we certainly can

I mean, your sarcasm is almost defiant or with a challenge, as if with a certainty it would appear you don't actually have.[/QUOTE]word up, yeh, when I get repeated deflections and ignoring of simple Qs the bells just start ringing, Scott. The only reason I am replying herenow is bc I tend to be suspicious of believers now, having been BSed so much...nah, I just tend to get an opinion and then see the worst when it might just be...other things, poor lexicon maybe, SiT, any number of things could be going on I guess. I do not know

so you say, but once again wadr cannot Quote. Please try and catch me contradicting Scripture one time today, I would appreciate it

yes, this is a major sign imo, a BIG tell. satan appears as an angel of light

and you're convinced of this, no qualifications or anything, so see when I go dig up the vv you are contradicting you wont even see it I guess. and that takes from me Scott. not saying I mind doing it, but I don't wanna do it for nothing, ok. I would encourage you to reject your premise here and seek how it might very well be something satan is designed to do
no contradictions as far as you are concerned you mean, i'm sure. ok,

its been a minute since I got your pov on what happens after you lit die, if you could. Not interested in replying even, just want your perspective there, ty.[/QUOTE]

1. It is hard to communicate with you...your typing skills are terrible. I would suggest, that is the reason for your own misunderstanding.
2. What did I ignore? Again, I am sure I did not ignore anything, but simply could not understand what you were saying or asking, because of your lack of typing/communication skills.
3. Perhaps you cannot quote, but I can: "My sheep hear my voice." So, will you now concede, or just go on to the next rant? You would do well to slow down and clearly take one thing at a time. That is why I have to number things for you...because you are all over the map.
4. Satan appearing as an angel of light does not make God void. Your point is mere speculation, simply contrary...which is more a trait of Satan than anything I have said, and therefore moot.
5. I have plenty of qualifications, but you do not show yourself as being trustworthy, that I should completely share all with you. But, sure, you can dig up scriptures to contradict anything...again, another trait of Satan. And if you don't like me throwing Satan in the midst at every turn, perhaps you should stop doing it yourself.
6. You are being an accuser (just like Satan). Why should I answer to you? For it is not you that I answer to.

 

[Vince]

Could you QUOTE the exact verses in Exodus 21 that you are talking about?

Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property. Exodus 21:20-21 NIV.

What do you think the eternal Torment IS?

Eternal Punishment Mt 25:46
a lake of fire Rev 20:10, REV 21:8,
eternal fire, MT 25:41
Fiery furnace MT13:50

Who should be accountable for your choices?

Myself

And what exactly do you believe would be suitable punishment for men who reject God?

I don't know. Why does it have to be a punishment especially when he has not made it clear he exists.

Abuse is subjective. What does abuse mean to you?

Usually the legal; definition has something to do with severe emotional or physical harm. I would say beating a slave with a rod as long as they don't die within 2 days is severe physical harm.

 

[bbyrd009]

appears as an angel of light

1. It is hard to communicate with you...your typing skills are terrible. I would suggest, that is the reason for your own misunderstanding.
2. What did I ignore? Again, I am sure I did not ignore anything, but simply could not understand what you were saying or asking, because of your lack of typing/communication skills.
3. Perhaps you cannot quote, but I can: "My sheep hear my voice." So, will you now concede, or just go on to the next rant? You would do well to slow down and clearly take one thing at a time. That is why I have to number things for you...because you are all over the map.
4. Satan appearing as an angel of light does not make God void. Your point is mere speculation, simply contrary...which is more a trait of Satan than anything I have said, and therefore moot.
5. I have plenty of qualifications, but you do not show yourself as being trustworthy, that I should completely share all with you. But, sure, you can dig up scriptures to contradict anything...again, another trait of Satan. And if you don't like me throwing Satan in the midst at every turn, perhaps you should stop doing it yourself.
6. You are being an accuser (just like Satan). Why should I answer to you? For it is not you that I answer to.

ok, ty

 

[ScottA]

Yes and Muslims can make this same claim. So which god do I seek after?

There are many claims, but only one God. If you are sincere in seeking Him, you will start by capitalizing His Name. Then, if you seek Him, He will be found. Which makes it obvious that you have been seeking all gods equally...and that is what you have found.

 

[ScottA]

fwiw "I called God by name" is...an oxymoron, ok,
My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?

Why do you call "calling God by name" an oxymoron?

And why do you quote Jesus calling the Father what you call an "oxymoron?"

 

[bbyrd009]

Why do you call "calling God by name" an oxymoron?

And why do you quote Jesus calling the Father what you call an "oxymoron?"

um, Jesus did not address Abba as El much i guess, there's revelation from believers online that would fill you in better than i could though. About all i really know there is El or Theos are not names like YHWH (AEOU, to an English) or...some of the other Names of God? I guess there's maybe another generic term too, at least one, but they are all xlated "God" in English, so...meaning is lost?

The truth that YHWH did not forsake Jesus is occluded iow, He was apparently saying something else, same as like at no one is good but God, which i don't recall the root for and i'm almost blind for the day, sorry.

Hard to contemplate, but i guess satan is an El or maybe a Theos too, not sure which one though. Ah, a Baal, Ba-el. Descriptives iow, not names
What God is and what God is not
The amazing name El: meaning and etymology
might be a good start, he is a believer too i guess, for those who care about that

 

[Vince]

There are many claims, but only one God. If you are sincere in seeking Him, you will start by capitalizing His Name. Then, if you seek Him, He will be found. Which makes it obvious that you have been seeking all gods equally...and that is what you have found.

So I cannot know god exists unless I capitalize god? And I used god as a general god not a specific god so non capitalization is correct grammar.

 

[ScottA]

So I cannot know god exists unless I capitalize god? And I used god as a general god not a specific god so non capitalization is correct grammar.

Again, you miss the point.

The point is, if you do not consider God to be God, but put Him in the mix of other non-gods, not believing in any of them, He will not answer when you call upon Him...because, by definition, you have not actually called upon Him.

Likewise, if you were to say, "hey" to a distant crowd of people without addressing anyone in particular...do you think anyone would answer? No, they would look at you and wonder what your problem is. Even worse, if you pointedly said, "hey you" and acted like a friend until the going got rough and then walked away. In which case the human response would be "Fine, forget you, we're done dude!"

All of which lines up pretty well with what you have said. And here you are.

 

[Vince]

Again, you miss the point.

The point is, if you do not consider God to be God, but put Him in the mix of other non-gods, not believing in any of them, He will not answer when you call upon Him...because, by definition, you have not actually called upon Him.

Likewise, if you were to say, "hey" to a distant crowd of people without addressing anyone in particular...do you think anyone would answer? No, they would look at you and wonder what your problem is. Even worse, if you pointedly said, "hey you" and acted like a friend until the going got rough and then walked away. In which case the human response would be "Fine, forget you, we're done dude!"

All of which lines up pretty well with what you have said. And here you are.

How do I know which god is real if any? Which god should I call upon? There are thousands.

 

[ScottA]

How do I know which god is real if any? Which god should I call upon? There are thousands.

The process is that we gravitate toward that which we are from. Follow your own. Pick one.