That's a good point Nancy. He has gotten rich out of the pockets of all the people in his congregation. He must think that his words are gold to draw such a high salary from people who may be struggling to pay their bills.
Are Joel Osteen and his wife really Christians?
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That's a good point Nancy. He has gotten rich out of the pockets of all the people in his congregation. He must think that his words are gold to draw such a high salary from people who may be struggling to pay their bills.
I agree with you and Rita. We are too caught in judging everyone else when we also are still greatly lacking.
But to show how hard it is to just stop judging others and start going to God about our own lack, look at how you end your post, stranger. You gotta laugh at us all sometimes, huh?
I don't like to think back to my early days of seeking God and how badly the radio preachers confused me. I just wonder how many of these pastors are confusing other people who are really looking to find God. I think they would have cleaned me out if I hadn't turned away from them. I took everything they sent and burned it in the wood stove. I determined that I was going to find God on my own. Another thing that bothers me about them is that they act like they have the market cornered on God: that to find God you have to go through them...and send in your seed faith gift.
I have a built in aversion to them now.
That's a unique point - about their popularity. Friendship with the world is enmity with God.
The OP is NOT about Osteen's Preaching Style and Manner;
but Rather a Challenge Against the Authenticity of his Faith in Thee Lord God.
The Challenge of his Faith as presented is based on his Wealth, and his choice of observing a particular singing performer.
Being Wealthy or listening to a singers performance IS NOT the measure BY Which a mans Faith is Determined.
We know a mans Standing IN the Lord;
BY his Fruits.
KNOWING a mans FRUITS;
IS solely based on:
*) CAN that man EVER Speak AGAINST thee Lord God.
IF that man CAN/DOES; his FRUITS REVEAL, he is NOT IN STANDING WITH THE Lord God.
I am NOT a fan of Osteen's Preaching Style or Manner.
Yet I personally, have NOT Heard, or Read of him STANDING Against thee Lord God.
And it is ^^^ THAT ALONE;
That Would Properly lead one to CHALLENGE his FAITH.
I think the OP is SAD, Because;
The OP DOES CHALLENGE Osteen's FAITH;
Without one iota of evidence or suggestion he speaks AGAINST thee Lord God.
You didn't challenge his FAITH.
You challenged his Style and Manner of Preaching....but that is not the OP topic.
Glory to God,
Taken
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Oh they had me jumping from doctrine to doctrine...and still coming out confused! I also have an aversion to some as well...I do like Charles Stanley but, people even call him a false teacher, I don't see it though. Ah yes, "seed money" PLEASE!!!!
Thank God He has brought us wisdom...I know it was one of the first things I prayed for, for real prayed! And with it, discernment and to be a good steward of all of His stuff! I made some foolish financial choices in my life and, it has been about 4 years now that, I look at the material so very differently and I SEE how He has blessed me above and beyond. I did not recognize Him working in my life until, I did ♥
I will stick to my red flags.
Hi SG,
I also was raised in the CC!
I also had to leave, many years ago, because there was nothing there for me.
I've always used this same expression just like you do. I needed more...I needed to know what I had experienced and no one there could explain it. What's even worse is that I've come to find out that priests believe in being saved by Jesus...they should have let everyone else know this too.
Of course I agree with what you've said about music, books, etc. Common sense always.
As to the salary of these rich pastors. To be honest I don't have a problem with it.
What they do is take a percentage of what they take in every year. If, at the beginning, they start out with, let's say 10% of earning, and then those earnings go sky high, as long as they keep to the 10%, they ARE being honest with God.
I mean, I don't expect them to live like I do and I'm sure they also help the poor a whole lot more than I ever could.
I think modesty is nice. I hate when they flaunt it. Those gold watches make me sick...I don't believe Joel does this. His wife dresses nicely, but what is she supposed to do? Shop at the same stores I do?
Let's not begrudge them their hard work and the people they bring in for God.
I don't see his ministry as being the same as the Word of Faith ministry,,,although he slightly touches on it now and then.
I'm just happy we both came to know God's love and truth somehow....
My father had us in Catholic Church every week. I went to CCD classes, did communion, confirmation, confession - and came out the other side not knowing a thing. When I sought God I went to talk to our local priest and all he did was confuse me more. He told me the Catholic Church was "the Holy 'Mother Church' - and it didn't fill the searching I had.
But my parents weren't saved so they never read the bible or taught us from it. It really bothered me when I found out that my great grandfather was a Protestant pastor - somebody dropped the ball in passing on the faith. I wondered if that's why I had such a hard time early on - Satan didn't seem to want to let go of the damage he did in not having my generational line continue in the faith. He used to torment me that if I came to God I'd be sent to some faraway country to be a missionary. It seems comical now, but at the time it wasn't and kept me from really making a crucial choice at the time.
True the worker is worthy of his hire but living in a mansion seems excessive - to me anyway. I don't begrudge anyone who works for his money to be able to enjoy it, but at what point is the line crossed? As a pastor they know they're going to be scrutinized more by an unbelieving world. I just think that his excesses aren't a good witness because he's taking from people who probably are struggling financially. I don't know how charitable he is, so that would tell us more about his heart. I remember watching someone make fun of him because he refused to open his church for flood victims. Then when he did after he was pressured, it appeared as if he lied as to why he didn't open the church sooner. I don't believe God expects us to be taken advantage of, but he was a bad witness again when he refused to open his church to people who had no shelter.
There have been times when I wasn't a "good Christian" - I lost my temper, said something I shouldn't. But Scripture tells us that pastors are going to be judged more strictly than the rest of us.
Here is a tough question: At what point do we not judge because we're told that by the same measure we judge, we will also be judged - as opposed to turning away from pastors who are itching ears?
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Hi Taken,
I do not watch television, ever! BUT...I have heard and seen different videos of Joel online. There were several red flags in my mind. There is only one off hand that I remember...it was when he was being interviewed by Larry King. Larry asked him about Jesus being the only way and, Joel could not bring himself to simply speak the truth and say YES! He IS the only way. He danced around the question for a bit and might as well have just said, "if you are a good person, God knows your heart so don't worry...I find that quite misleading. And you are right, we do not know them by their wealth and popularity but their fruits... ♥
Joel Osteen received his ordination qualification to "Preach" in his dads established church.
Joel did not Attend "seminary" training; and neither did numerous other "Preachers".
So what?
The So what, is what are People Hungry for?
While Joel's Preaching centers AROUND thee Lord God; Joel's Preaching Style and Manner is centered AROUND the Extent of Joel's own personal KNOWLEDGE and UNDERSTANDING;
Just like Every other Preacher.
Some Preachers preach on the soft text of Scripture; some preachers preach on the hard core and deeper meaning of Scripture;
And Some Preachers preach on the APPEAL of individuals FEELINGS.
Personally, I have observed a few of Osteen's "sermons"; and find his Preaching style and manner Appealing as more of a "FEEL GOOD"
Preacher;
Appealing TO uplifting individuals FEELINGS About themselves; to then Transfer "those" GOOD FEELINGS, toward "FEELING GOOD" toward the Lord God,
WHERE BY, once the "GOOD FEELING" toward the Lord God is accomplished; the SOFT Touch of bits and pieces of the gospel is preached.
Personally his Style and Manner of Preaching, IMO is elementary/ suited for a Beginner.
And obviously by Scripture itself; there are Millions of people, IN NEED of an elementary introduction to thee Mysterious Lord God Himself.
If the Lord God Himself is blessing Osteen with Wealth ... why is what another has any concern of people?
AND FYI; Lakewood Church Compensates its Head Pastor with approx 200 Thousand per Year....WHICH Joel has DECLINED to TAKE for the past 15 years.
Glory to God,
Taken
Joel did not Attend "seminary" training; and neither did numerous other "Preachers".
So what?
The So what, is what are People Hungry for?
While Joel's Preaching centers AROUND thee Lord God; Joel's Preaching Style and Manner is centered AROUND the Extent of Joel's own personal KNOWLEDGE and UNDERSTANDING;
Just like Every other Preacher.
Some Preachers preach on the soft text of Scripture; some preachers preach on the hard core and deeper meaning of Scripture;
And Some Preachers preach on the APPEAL of individuals FEELINGS.
Personally, I have observed a few of Osteen's "sermons"; and find his Preaching style and manner Appealing as more of a "FEEL GOOD"
Preacher;
Appealing TO uplifting individuals FEELINGS About themselves; to then Transfer "those" GOOD FEELINGS, toward "FEELING GOOD" toward the Lord God,
WHERE BY, once the "GOOD FEELING" toward the Lord God is accomplished; the SOFT Touch of bits and pieces of the gospel is preached.
Personally his Style and Manner of Preaching, IMO is elementary/ suited for a Beginner.
And obviously by Scripture itself; there are Millions of people, IN NEED of an elementary introduction to thee Mysterious Lord God Himself.
If the Lord God Himself is blessing Osteen with Wealth ... why is what another has any concern of people?
AND FYI; Lakewood Church Compensates its Head Pastor with approx 200 Thousand per Year....WHICH Joel has DECLINED to TAKE for the past 15 years.
Glory to God,
Taken
I'M SORRY, BUT YOU READ THAT INTERVIEW WRONG. LARRY KING DELIBERATELY TRIED VERY HARD, TO GET JOEL TO SAY DERAGATORIALLY, THAT THE JEWS WERE GOING TO HELL. I WAS DISGUSTED JUST WATCHING IT.
Same here - I was so confused early on that I know the damage pastors sometimes do. They had me mixed up so that I thought that for God to hear my prayers I had to pay them a donation - like they were the gatekeepers.
I like Charles Stanley too - I've never heard him called a false teacher. I heard - I think on here - that his son Andy teaches odd things.
I read this explanation this morning:
"I believe that one half of the professors of the gospel are nothing better than practical infidels." - Dr. Cumming 'In the time of the end.'
"The Church of England seems to be eaten through and through with sacramentarianism; but nonconformity appears to be almost as badly riddled with philosophical infidelity. But those whom we thought better things are turning aside one by one from the fundamentals of the Christian faith. Through and through I believe the very heart of England is honey combed with a damnable infidelity which dares still go into the pulpit and call itself Christian." - Spurgeon
Everyone has made good points. But we're given somewhat competing Scriptures. So which ones do you apply to the Joel Osten type pastors?
Matthew 7:1
“Judge not, that ye be not judged.”
Matthew 7:5
“Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.”
Matthew 7:15
“Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.”
2 Timothy 4:3
“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;”
Matthew 7:1
“Judge not, that ye be not judged.”
Matthew 7:5
“Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.”
Matthew 7:15
“Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.”
2 Timothy 4:3
“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;”
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Regardless of what Larry King was, yes - obviously trying to do should not have prevented Joel from saying - YES JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY TO GOD. Why would he NOT answer that question straight forward, does he think there is a back door? It was a huge opportunity for Joel to glorify God through His Son, and he hedges??
I don't know a lot about Joel. Look where I live.
I only replied to his style of living and don't know much about anything else.
I used to go to church by myself many times. I must have been 10 or 11. The church was 2 blocks away and times were different then so it was safe.
I agree with you---the priest did a horrible job. They acted like only THEY could know God...everyone else just had to go to church and confession and they were in.
My parents did believe in God and I dragged them to a Protestant denomination.
They liked it but they said they felt out of place and returned too the CC...which was OK...they did know Jesus. This was very good and comforting to me when they passed on. It helps a lot to know a person was saved when they die.
Interesting post!
Mathew 7:1
We cannot judge a person's soul....but we are asked to judge their behavior.
Paul said not to hang with persons that are of a certain lifestyle.....this means we must know their lifestyle.
Mathew 7:5 Amen.
Mathew 7:15
I don't think he's a ravenous wolf. That would be someone who tries to work satan's work to get persons lost. JO is not doing this.
2 Timothy 4:3
Yeah. Maybe. Who can bear it? Sometimes the gospel message is too difficult for persons if it's not sugar coated.
Is sugar coating the same as Mathew 7:15?
I don't think so.
Nancy....
Not every Christian believes Jesus is the only way.
If a Jew is serving God and believes and has faith in God, and lives a good life and raises his family in his faith BUT he can't accept the gospel message...
Is he lost?
Isn't God the Father in the Trinity?
How could a person serving God be lost?
I am the way the truth and the life.
Jesus IS GOD.
Comment?
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Oh yes, it does help tons when you know someone close to you was saved before passing on. It is difficult to comfort one who lost a loved one who never came to Christ...I mean, if the one's left behind, does not know Jesus either I think it is even tougher to comfort them. I have a longtime friend who lost one of her sons at the age of 26 from drugs. She is such a kind person, have tried to get her to come to services with me but, she just says that when she want's to go to Church, she just goes to the CC down her street. All I could do was hug her and stay silent, for the most part about his possible destiny as, I do not know. This is the kind of thing that makes me wish there actually WERE a purgatory! I can see it giving much comfort to the loved ones who mourn. But, I cannot find anything in the bible describing anything like purgatory.
I've felt the same way. I wish that I could start a ministry for children to help them attend school in a positive atmosphere instead of competing one, or for prisoners to help them establish a new life. But it seems that the ones who are blessed with wealth spend it on excesses. I can understand someone who works hard should be able to enjoy the fruits of their labor. I can understand Osteen living in a big house since he probably has meetings there. But does someone really need a 10.5 million dollar mansion? I wonder what he spends on a gardner alone? Seeing the difference between Billy Grahams humble house and Osteen's is something to consider.
Joel Osteen refuses to open his megachurch to flood victims:
Houston Pastor JOEL OSTEEN Will NOT Open His Mega-Church To Flood Victims!., page 1
Nancy
Well-Known Member
All I can say to this is that, if ANYBODY tries to get into Heaven ANY other way then, they should not be calling them followers of Christ, or "Christian".
I agree with all you've said...
BUT
Purgatory is not a THIRD PLACE.
There are only two places..even in Catholicism:
HEAVEN AND HELL.
Those in Purgatory are on their way to heaven.
Even in Catholicism, if a person does not believe, he is NOT going to heaven.
