You're free to turn away from any church or pastor you don't like. If you don't like them, then you make a judgement and leave. That doesn't mean Osteen has the evil motives that everyone seems to think.
Stranger
Are Joel Osteen and his wife really Christians?
- Thread starter Soverign Grace
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
You're free to turn away from any church or pastor you don't like. If you don't like them, then you make a judgement and leave. That doesn't mean Osteen has the evil motives that everyone seems to think.
Stranger
Not sure what the question was...I recall you saying Osteen encourages people to bring their bibles and that some don't, which makes you question if they read their bibles at all.
If someone doesn't bring their bible to church, it wouldn't make me wonder if they don't read one. Like, I don't know why that would make someone think they don't have and read one. Maybe they prefer to listen and jot down verses to look up later, I don't know. But if I see someone not carrying their bible, it doesn't really make me think anything in particular...
Hi Stranger,
I think stunnedbygrace was ' lightheartardly ' raising the issue of judgement made in the last sentence of your post. You questioned whether the Christians that did not take their bibles to church actually read them. You were ' evaluating them ' - which is what SG was doing with Joel
( at least that's how I read it - made me laugh when I read it yesterday.
I didn't always take my bible to church, but they often had copies there. I would usually take notes as I remember more that way and I use to write down any thoughts or questions that came to mind.
Some people have better memories and many prefer to listen.
What use to sadden me was the reality that after church, when everyone mingles, not many people discussed the sermon, or talk about spiritual things- it was usually chit chat and catch up time !
Rita
I think stunnedbygrace was ' lightheartardly ' raising the issue of judgement made in the last sentence of your post. You questioned whether the Christians that did not take their bibles to church actually read them. You were ' evaluating them ' - which is what SG was doing with Joel
( at least that's how I read it - made me laugh when I read it yesterday.
I didn't always take my bible to church, but they often had copies there. I would usually take notes as I remember more that way and I use to write down any thoughts or questions that came to mind.
Some people have better memories and many prefer to listen.
What use to sadden me was the reality that after church, when everyone mingles, not many people discussed the sermon, or talk about spiritual things- it was usually chit chat and catch up time !
Rita
Another thought came to me when I saw that willieT liked my post. Willie is (if I'm not confusing him with someone else) losing his sight. What would be the purpose of him bringing his bible to church if he can't see it and needs a much larger print than they even make for bibles?
In fact, if one could wonder if someone not bringing a bible doesn't ever read one, another person could wonder if a person bringing a bible just wants to look very studious and godly to men.
And another could wonder if someone's bible doesn't look worn, might they not read it at all, when a man's bible may have fallen apart BECAUSE he reads it so much, and so he had to buy a new one!
Outward judging just never ends...I myself don't understand how anyone manages floppy bibles since I have a hard time with them and need hard cover so it doesn't slip and slide around in my hands. And the really thin pages drive me insane when I am looking for something. I usually wind up tearing them accidentally. And try reading a floppy bible in bed. Its almost impossible. And I will place a pen in my bible and close it, which does cause pressure on the binding at the spine, so the pages eventually begin to fall out and I have to go get a new one, or pick up one that's not my favorite translation.
And here's an annoying thing - when a verse grabs me and I pen brackets around it, for some odd reason, I won't often remember exactly what book its in, but I will remember if its on the left or right page or if it's toward the top or bottom of the page. So if I've had to get a new bible due to pages falling out, there I am again, looking in my broke down bible for the verse, since that's the one I know I marked it in!
In fact, I can't believe I've begun to do this, since I love a book in my hands, but since I finally got a cell phone, and since it's way easier to do a verse lookup to quickly find the verse or passage online, I mostly read online now. So people not bringing a bible to church, but having a phone, could be actually looking up more verses as a sermon goes on than those carrying a bible.
So...outward judging is crazy and it never ends and it is usually wrong and way off base.
In fact, if one could wonder if someone not bringing a bible doesn't ever read one, another person could wonder if a person bringing a bible just wants to look very studious and godly to men.
And another could wonder if someone's bible doesn't look worn, might they not read it at all, when a man's bible may have fallen apart BECAUSE he reads it so much, and so he had to buy a new one!
Outward judging just never ends...I myself don't understand how anyone manages floppy bibles since I have a hard time with them and need hard cover so it doesn't slip and slide around in my hands. And the really thin pages drive me insane when I am looking for something. I usually wind up tearing them accidentally. And try reading a floppy bible in bed. Its almost impossible. And I will place a pen in my bible and close it, which does cause pressure on the binding at the spine, so the pages eventually begin to fall out and I have to go get a new one, or pick up one that's not my favorite translation.
And here's an annoying thing - when a verse grabs me and I pen brackets around it, for some odd reason, I won't often remember exactly what book its in, but I will remember if its on the left or right page or if it's toward the top or bottom of the page. So if I've had to get a new bible due to pages falling out, there I am again, looking in my broke down bible for the verse, since that's the one I know I marked it in!
In fact, I can't believe I've begun to do this, since I love a book in my hands, but since I finally got a cell phone, and since it's way easier to do a verse lookup to quickly find the verse or passage online, I mostly read online now. So people not bringing a bible to church, but having a phone, could be actually looking up more verses as a sermon goes on than those carrying a bible.
So...outward judging is crazy and it never ends and it is usually wrong and way off base.
I haven't listened to many of Osteen's sermons, perhaps two or three only. And parts of two or more others. Two things struck me about his messages. The first, that I never saw a Bible in his hand, and he never taught from it, although once or twice he quoted it to support his point. Second, he did not preach Christ and Him crucified. His messages, and I know I may be corrected by those who have heard him more often, centred wholly on man using his own strength and capabilities to become a better person and live a more positive life. This teaching is not the gospel. It is the same motivational kind of message you can get from anyone in the world with the addition of the of scripture. Nowhere did he suggest that faith in the power and sufficiency of Christ (without Me ye can do nothing) was the only means to attain to either salvation or living up to any spiritual potential and being a testimony to God's grace. His messages, as far as I could discern, focused solely on the material and emotional well being of his congregants; the spiritual well-being or eternal destiny of his listeners seem to take well, second place... If mentioned at all, which I may have missed.
All I said is I wonder if those who don't bring a Bible to Church read their Bible at home. It was not a judgement. I didn't say those that don't bring their Bible to Church must not read their Bible at home. It was but a reflection based on an observation.
Stranger
This is true and depends on who the people are you are talking to. But there were always those who listened, followed, and checked the Scriptures for accuracy as the message is given. And at the end they get together and discuss the message. Their interest is in the things of God and Christ.
I know I have told this story before, but years ago a substitute pastor was filling in. He gave a message and at the end took his place at the back of the Church to greet all as they left. Well, me and another brother were still in the pews with Bible open discussing things he said and of course our views of them. Once all had left, he walked over and said, "you boys are going to get in trouble doing that". Whether he was serious or joking, I don't know. But, he was right.
Stranger
Hi Nancy,
I can not comment on the King/Osteen interview, didn't see it. And similar to you, I rarely watch TV, MAYBE a couple of times a year.
IMO people shy away from being a bold speaker in what they BELIEVE in interviews...
Because they are on the SPOT to Answer what they do not Understand, but are EXPECTED to understand because of their POSITION of "PASTOR".
Personally, I think Osteen is a Soft touch feel good Preacher...preaching to Gentiles; Jesus IS THE WAY....
I am not going to give Osteen all the credit for being LACK in understanding....Because the next OBVIOUS QUESTION IS:
SINCE JESUS "IS" the "ONLY WAY"...
What about the JEWS?
The Condunrum IS: JEWS are PART of the TRIBES OF ISRAEL, WHO ARE THE Chosen elect of God...WHO BY THE WAY...ARE among the majority who HAVE REJECTED Jesus as Gods Christ Messiah.
Joel; IMO, ( like many Christians) has a basic
Belief, JESUS IS THE WAY, but lacks in Understanding of WHEN and HOW the JEWS FIT INTO Gods PLAN of Redemption and Salvation.
I think anyone claiming to BE a Preacher, is comfortable Preaching TO GENTILES, JESUS IS THE WAY....but the majority of "GENTILE PREACHERS" ARE "NOT" equipped, to speak to: "WHAT ABOUT THE JEWS".
From what has been discussed here already, and not having see the interview...simply sounds like to me; Joel was NOT prepared in knowledge or understanding to get Stuck in a possible interview Question of ...
If Jesus IS the ONLY Way...WHAT ABOUT THE JEWS?
Glory to God,
Taken
You brought up an Interesting Point.
Stats reveal "THE BIBLE" is one of the Most Published and Sold BOOKS in the World.
Stats reveal While MANY families OWN a BIBLE, it is "RARELY READ", in Family Homes.
Osteen's IMPRESSES for Congregational Members and Attendees TO BRING THEIR BIBLES TO Church.
Nothing Indicates Bringing a Bible TO Church means THEY READ IT....but rather that the Families Bible is NOT simple sitting on a shelf collecting dust.
Glory to God,
Taken
Just look at how popular an easy and gentle message is. A huge amount of followers. If you add in more truth...the cross of Christ...the numbers dwindle down to a large extent.
If you go into one by one discipleship, you can usually count the people with your fingers.
But it must be so. It has always been so.
Most people just want to be able to get through their day in one piece. Their lives are overwhelming...and they don't know how to slow down or simplify things. So for them...a little inspiration and encouragement...without MORE challenges.. is what is needed.
Needed for these in their present situation. They don't want to be challenged...they are looking for comfort. And at their stage in life...that's ok....for a time.
So I'm not against that. Joel is doing a simple job with a people that may otherwise not go near their bibles. I don't judge him. He seems to be consistent in his lack of depth...but also his care for people.
Now if Joel came into the baptism of the Spirit or a real visitation from God I would expect a radical change in the way he approaches the things of God. Kind of like Apollos who needed to learn the ways of God more accurately....but zealous nevertheless for the care of others.
Is Joel genuine? I hope so.
Love hopes all things.
If you go into one by one discipleship, you can usually count the people with your fingers.
But it must be so. It has always been so.
Most people just want to be able to get through their day in one piece. Their lives are overwhelming...and they don't know how to slow down or simplify things. So for them...a little inspiration and encouragement...without MORE challenges.. is what is needed.
Needed for these in their present situation. They don't want to be challenged...they are looking for comfort. And at their stage in life...that's ok....for a time.
So I'm not against that. Joel is doing a simple job with a people that may otherwise not go near their bibles. I don't judge him. He seems to be consistent in his lack of depth...but also his care for people.
Now if Joel came into the baptism of the Spirit or a real visitation from God I would expect a radical change in the way he approaches the things of God. Kind of like Apollos who needed to learn the ways of God more accurately....but zealous nevertheless for the care of others.
Is Joel genuine? I hope so.
Love hopes all things.
Triumph1300
Well-Known Member
The reason people are turning to TV church meetings is because a lot of local churches are not doing what they are suppose to do.
I see it all the time. At the same time these TV churches are entertainment centres promoting books, videos etc.
All a person needs is a Bible and good preaching on sunday. And it all will fall in place.
Inward turned social clubs, acting as churches and their socials are the most important issues.
Good local churches are hard to find.
I see it all the time. At the same time these TV churches are entertainment centres promoting books, videos etc.
All a person needs is a Bible and good preaching on sunday. And it all will fall in place.
Inward turned social clubs, acting as churches and their socials are the most important issues.
Good local churches are hard to find.
The question I think should be asked is this. Why do you not bring a Bible to Church? If you bring your Bible to Church, do you find a sense of shame as you walk across the parking lot to the church with many folk not bringing a Bible?
The Gospel, the Bible, our Lord Jesus Christ....and our identification with them, does naturally produce a shame in the face of the world. We are fools for Christ. And we feel it. But we do it anyway.
All of you who do not take your Bible to Church, take it next Sunday, and let me know honestly how you feel about it and the response you believe you see in others.
At least Osteen is not afraid of the shame of being identified publicly with Jesus Christ and the Bible.
Stranger
Phoneman777
Well-Known Member
- Jan 14, 2015
- 7,342
- 2,581
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
No account of Jesus hanging in the Roman Coliseum or at the all hours pub, strip clubs or any debauched concerts like Un-lady Gaga. Aren't we supposed to know a Christian by their fruit? If Osteen was outside in the parking lot dodging security in order to place tracts on car windshields, that would be the fruit of a Christian...he was inside likely clapping his hands raw to music and lyrics inspired by demonic influences to be a powerful barrier between people and their Savior.
Maybe if he occupied himself with more Holy Scripture and less PG-13 stripper, he wouldn't be the gaffe tweet machine that he is, right?
I don't begrudge anyone money - that's what capitalism is about; it's a motivator. It motivates people to work hard, be innovative, and strive for good things - that's where I believe socialism fails, and we can see the effects of it, such as in Venezuela. I just don't know why someone needs a house that big. He's making money off of God - it just seems as if he's living excessively.
Maybe he is reaching some people who need to hear his positive messages. And he probably does put up with a lot - having people pulling at him from every direction. But what about the following verse:
1 Thessalonians 5:22 - Abstain from all appearance of evil.
Last edited:
That's a really good way to look at it - since it is a matter of the heart.
1 Thessalonians 5:22 - Abstain from all appearance of evil.
1 John 3:17 - But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels [of compassion] from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
Last edited:
I couldn't agree with you more about socialism.
As to the appearance of evil....I don't think a big house is the appearance of evil.
A poor person might think I have a big house....Or you.
I'm good with it.
Triumph1300
Well-Known Member
Jesse Duplantis claimed he had a dog baptized in the Holy Spirit.
Enough said about that. He's a good comedian. Sad though.
Enough said about that. He's a good comedian. Sad though.
illini1959
Active Member
Matthew 7 goes on to say vs 5 "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."
John 7:24 "Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”
Specifically, other believers - 1 Cor 5:12-13 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”
Judgement often is taken out of context (I'm not talking about your post - I mean in general). People are so afraid to judge, but as Christians we are to judge with "right judgment", not as hypocrites. There's a difference between rightly judging, calling out bad behavior - and being judgmental or "holier than thou". Being judgmental is always wrong.
There are lots of verses showing how we (believers) are to call out sin, not condone it -
Eph 5:11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.
1 Tim 5:20 As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.
Paul reminded the church in Galatia that he rebuked Peter in Antioch (Galatians 2)
Keeping in mind ~
"Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted." Gal 6:1
Joel Osteen, saved? Probably. I don't know. I do know he doesn't preach the whole council of God and he'll be held accountable for that.
I'm also very skeptical of those who claim Christ yet don't preach/teach His word rightly divided. More and more these days people who consider themselves Christian aren't what they claim to be. Deception abounds, discernment is a requirement.
