Please explain this.

[atpollard]

Do you know how many times I've been told that a person could LIVE AS HE WANTS TO because it's impossible to lose salvation once one has believed in Jesus.

How do you want to live?

 

[Helen]

...was said by Samuel to Saul after Samuel had been brought up from the earth by the Witch of Endor, the functional part for us there being that Samuel was accepted, and Saul was rejected

Good point...so how were both Saul and Samuel going to be "at the same place"?

 

[bbyrd009]

Immortality? Eternal life? How that works? Not sure.

first ty for attempting a reply to the post anyway, even if you did basically skirt the issues imo. Now if you would reply to the Q therein you might see How that works, Hollywood is conflating the two right and left, seen that? this mortal must put on immortality does not say this mortal must become immortal, seen that? You are not sure bc you want to remain not sure imo, wadr. What are you "not sure" of, bl? No one has ever gone up to heaven, of that you can be absolutely, positively sure, see. You and your sons will be here with me whats to be not sure of now, bro?

 

[Helen]

Good point...so how were both Saul and Samuel going to be "at the same place"?

Unless we are believers in God's love overcoming ALL things.

(@bbyrd009 )

 

[bbyrd009]

Whatever we receive after the resurrection...not after death...is forever, and it aint a form of death 'more abundantly'

bl, you are preaching at me again and no offense but imo you dont even know when resurrection is supposed to occur.

Have you been resurrected yet or not bl. Have you put on immortality yet or not. Do you still "believe" by which i of course mean "hold as an absolute truth like every other deceived religious person" that you might go up,to heaven after you have died or not? And pls be honest, bc i really dont care, Roamn Centurion's Daughters can be raised, why not you imo

 

[bbyrd009]

One thing I know for sure is that whatever we receive is a gift...it ain't natural

ok well count the cost of that free gift, ok bro. I agree it is not natural, being the winner at all costs simply as a survival mechanism is natural, even understandable. Hate your life, hate your family, this makes no sense whatsoever, see

So whatever we do in the end become, it comes from outside of us, and our preparation for that begins now.

but Death, More Abundantly that cannot possibly be, right bro? narf, ok, gotta run

you and your sons will be here with me ok saul?

 

[bbyrd009]

ps, might be a good place to go reread that battle saul was all plexed about, that led him to the witch of endor, bc if i Read It to you you are not gonna like it much at all i guess ok

 

[bbyrd009]

and ps, dont totally forget about that naive deal this morning that you breezed over, ok, that was a good path, thats just how it begins imo, 30 seconds today, a minute tomorrow, suddenly you suddenly no longer know jack, and you enter this dream state, just like a little kid, then you get freaked and come back, and forth, til you dont come back one day. Lucid i'm still working on myself lol

 

[atpollard]

Since when do we trust the words of witches and demons to speak the truth?

 

[GodsGrace]

The works of Jesus Christ on the Cross and rising from the grave. The works of the Great High Priest and the perfect propitiation of the Lamb of God.

Soli Deo Gloria!

Who else would we give glory to?

And I agree with you.
But don't you also think we're required to join in on the works God has for us HERE on earth?

 

[GodsGrace]

How do you want to live?

So what are you saying?
I should just worry about myself?

And what about those reading along?
Maybe I should just give up?

 

[GodsGrace]

@bbyrd009

You posted verse 2 Samuel 12:23 re the going to the dead son.

Yeah. That's the only one...

Hope I didn't send you on a wild goose chase!

Did you see the above?

@bbyrd009

 

[atpollard]

Who else would we give glory to?

And I agree with you.
But don't you also think we're required to join in on the works God has for us HERE on earth?

So what are you saying?
I should just worry about myself?

And what about those reading along?
Maybe I should just give up?

The answer to these two are related.

First, my question: “So what do you want to do?”

I meant nothing so crass as “worry about yourself” or “just give up”. You were discussing the comment made to you as an early Christian that a person “could live as he wants to”. I chose to jump in on that conversation but my intention was far friendlier than you seem to have taken it. Not only do I believe that people can “live as they want to” but I believe that people ultimately DO live EXACTLY as they want to. A smoker smokes for exactly as long as they want to smoke more than they want to not smoke. The moment that they want to not smoke more than the desire to smoke, they stop smoking.

So it was a simple, honest question that I asked. You ARE free to do whatever you want, so what is it that you WANT to do?

When I was all about the world and never gave a single thought to God, I did what I wanted and what I wanted to do was not things that pleased God or served Him or brought Him any glory. I could not have cared less what God thought of anything, even if I had known God’s opinions.

When God chose me, my WANTS changed. I wanted to please God. I wanted to know what He thought. I wanted to do what He asked.

So both before and after SALVATION, I was free do do whatever I wanted ... it was “what I wanted” that changed.

The only person YOU can answer for is YOU. It is the only heart that you can read.

So what is it that YOU want to do?
Are you, or are you not, free to do what you want to do?

 

[GodsGrace]

The answer to these two are related.

First, my question: “So what do you want to do?”

I meant nothing so crass as “worry about yourself” or “just give up”. You were discussing the comment made to you as an early Christian that a person “could live as he wants to”. I chose to jump in on that conversation but my intention was far friendlier than you seem to have taken it. Not only do I believe that people can “live as they want to” but I believe that people ultimately DO live EXACTLY as they want to. A smoker smokes for exactly as long as they want to smoke more than they want to not smoke. The moment that they want to not smoke more than the desire to smoke, they stop smoking.

So it was a simple, honest question that I asked. You ARE free to do whatever you want, so what is it that you WANT to do?

When I was all about the world and never gave a single thought to God, I did what I wanted and what I wanted to do was not things that pleased God or served Him or brought Him any glory. I could not have cared less what God thought of anything, even if I had known God’s opinions.

When God chose me, my WANTS changed. I wanted to please God. I wanted to know what He thought. I wanted to do what He asked.

So both before and after SALVATION, I was free do do whatever I wanted ... it was “what I wanted” that changed.

The only person YOU can answer for is YOU. It is the only heart that you can read.

So what is it that YOU want to do?
Are you, or are you not free to do what you want to do?

I didn't take anything in a bad way. It comes off sometimes with me like that.
I've always admired you and try to take you at your word.
Yes, I admire you even though your theology is different from mine.

Think about myself...in the sense that maybe I worry TOO MUCH about everybody else. I took a year's worth of discipleship and it made me very keen to a person's "lostness" and a desire to save persons. I know it's up to the Holy Spirit....just talking here.

So I have a different background than you. I was always aware of God, from a very early age. I never did anything woefully wrong even though I was lost in God's eyes. We all start out lost.

So when I became saved there was not a lot of change..and yet a lot changed.
The world looked different and I was more aware of a spiritual battle that was going on.

So what do I want to do?
I've done it with God's help.
Raised my family and have a good relationship
with my two grown kids...ditto for grandchildren.
I speak about works...to me a work is anything I do...I do it for God.

That's about it A.
I want to live as best I can as God would want.
When I fail, I feel sorry and ask forgiveness.

I agree that God changes our heart so that we want what He wants.
I just don't agree to HOW he does it which is different than how you understand it.
But I think we both are trying to do our best,
and we both glorify God for this (not ourselves) because without Him, nothing is possible for us.
And I think we're both very grateful to have known God and to be able to be in His presence.
We're different, but the same.

 

[justbyfaith]

and imo you are lying deliberately now and i can prove it.

By all means prove it.

OK,,,except JESUS did NOT speak of mental assent.
HE said the person BELIEVED and THEN FELL AWAY.

The only other option is that the person who believes and falls away continues to have everlasting life...which has actually been presented before by someone who thought that it was the truth.

Because the person who believes has everlasting life; and the nature of everlasting life is that it will never come to an end.

So if the person fell away, their life would continue to be everlasting (i.e. they would continue to be saved even after falling away).

I would say, however, that this is not the case; but that rather there is a distinction in faith type between Luke 8:13 and John 6:47.

You still haven't replied to my question:
FROM WHAT did they FALL AWAY?

Mental assent to the tenets of the gospel.

Do you know how many times I've been told that a person could LIVE AS HE WANTS TO because it's impossible to lose salvation once one has believed in Jesus.

This is absolutely true for the one who has genuine bona fide faith. Because such an one has been made into a new creature in Christ, with new desires and a new life. It's like when it says in Psalms 37 that if you delight yourself in the LORD He will give you the desires of your heart. I believe this is qualified by the fact that the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked until you begin to delight yourself in God. Before that, if He gave you the desires of your heart, you would be receiving evil from His hand.

You NEVER reply to my verses.

Wrong. I have at the very least responded to Luke 8:13, which was brought up by you as an argument.

Sorry, there is so much to respond to sometimes that I can miss the verses that you are bringing up. I think you want me to expound on them; but I would ask that you allow me to do so by bringing other verses into the equation. Because the Holy Ghost teaches us when we compare spiritual thing with spiritual; and therefore other verses have a bearing on how we are to interpret the verses that support our pet doctrines.

 

[justbyfaith]

It all speaks of a pledge, an earnest.
The promised item comes at the end.

Philippians 3:12-14
12Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
13Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,
14I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

You wanted me to answer your verses, so I will answer this one with the following statement:

The earnest or pledge, scripturally, is a deposit guaranteeing what is to come.

NIV--
2Co 1:21, Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us,
2Co 1:22, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Eph 1:13, And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
Eph 1:14, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

 

[bbyrd009]

because I am quite certain

ok so look i gave a pretty retarded reply to this earlier i guess, dunno if you have responded yet but i apologize, and ask you to disregard the stupid part if you can, and reply to the meat of the post if you will, ty.

 

[bbyrd009]

OK.
BUT,,,,
There's something about this in David too.
His son died, and he said the son couldn't come back to him (David)
so David had to go to the son (when he died he'd see the son again).
How to find out?

hmm, not sure why that brought to mind this for you, have to check that out tonight if i can.
as to your Q, How to find out what exactly, sorry?

 

[GodsGrace]

The only other option is that the person who believes and falls away continues to have everlasting life...which has actually been presented before by someone who thought that it was the truth.

Because the person who believes has everlasting life; and the nature of everlasting life is that it will never come to an end.

So if the person fell away, their life would continue to be everlasting (i.e. they would continue to be saved even after falling away).

You cannot really believe this and are offering it as an option.
It's impossible for a non-believer to enter into heaven.
Without even going far in posting verses, Rev 21:27 comes to mind.
How can anything unclean enter into heaven? And without the washing of blood we are truly unclean. There are verses that state that we are to PUT ON Christ, as if He were a covering. Without this covering God sees only our old sinful self.
Galatians 3:27 and others

I would say, however, that this is not the case; but that rather there is a distinction in faith type between Luke 8:13 and John 6:47.

Faith is faith JBF.
Jesus said the faith of a mustard seed would suffice.
AT THE MOMENT one has faith...one is saved.
IF he falls away from that faith....he can no longer be saved because he is no longer IN CHRIST....the life-giver.
Listen to what James says:

James 5:19-20
19My dear brothers and sisters, if someone among you wanders away from the truth and is brought back,
20you can be sure that whoever brings the sinner back from wandering will save that person from death and bring about the forgiveness of many sins.

If a person wanders from their faith...from the truth...
and a person brings them back...
the wandering soul will be saved FROM DEATH.
This means that it is possible to wander from our faith.
It's good to be aware of this so when tribulation comes along,
we can keep close to God and pray for our belief.

This is absolutely true for the one who has genuine bona fide faith. Because such an one has been made into a new creature in Christ, with new desires and a new life. It's like when it says in Psalms 37 that if you delight yourself in the LORD He will give you the desires of your heart. I believe this is qualified by the fact that the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked until you begin to delight yourself in God. Before that, if He gave you the desires of your heart, you would be receiving evil from His hand.

Agreed.
Can we agree that as born again believers we obey God and wish to do what He would want us to do and not proclaim to new Christians that it's not necessary to obey God?

Wrong. I have at the very least responded to Luke 8:13, which was brought up by you as an argument.

Sorry, there is so much to respond to sometimes that I can miss the verses that you are bringing up. I think you want me to expound on them; but I would ask that you allow me to do so by bringing other verses into the equation. Because the Holy Ghost teaches us when we compare spiritual thing with spiritual; and therefore other verses have a bearing on how we are to interpret the verses that support our pet doctrines.

That's verse ping pong JBF.
First I EXEGETE your verses...and THEN
I post mine and YOU exegete mine.

This is the only way to get to some common ground.
I don't ask much. I just wish I didn't have to hear that
we NEED NOT obey God. Not even necessarily from you...
but from some.

 

[justbyfaith]

To you, what is the nature of everlasting life? Is it possible for everlasting life to ever come to an end? If so, how is it everlasting?

James 5:19-20
19My dear brothers and sisters, if someone among you wanders away from the truth and is brought back,
20you can be sure that whoever brings the sinner back from wandering will save that person from death and bring about the forgiveness of many sins.

My exegesis:
If someone wanders away from the truth, they had only mental assent to the tenets of the gospel and did not have a heart faith that is unto righteousness.