When is a christian NOT a Christian?

[bbyrd009]

( EDIT:- addition....I am added this and changed the heading.
I am NOT after a list of verses about salvation...but I want to hear 'from you'.
I changed the heading when responding to @Enoch111 's post below. )
thanks....
-------

I was thinking it would be interesting what other Christians here think a Christian is...
AND who is 'allowed' to call themselves that?

(We'd like you in on this too @lforrest don't want you missing this post. )

There was some chatter the other day about who was 'allowed' to have "Christian" under their avatar and who should put 'Other Faith', in it's place. ( locking them out of 95% of the forum boards)
So, who defines who can call themselves a christian?

The Nicene creed was mentioned. > for those who don't know it , or have forgotten its content. Nicene Creed

I for one don't agree with a line at the end of it... re the Holy Spirit. It says:-
"He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified."

I don't agree with that... I don't care if they were wise old men with beards.
I don't find that (bolded line) anywhere in the bible at all. In fact it is says He points TO the Father and Son. ( away from Himself)

The Nicene Creed would also define as none-christian any who have a different interpretation of what is called "The Trinity" ...with all the gobbledegook that goes with it about whether it is three persons in one, or one person with three distinct expressions...blah blah blah...
So, if the Nicene Creed is the acid test....are the none trinitarians not christians along with me...( who doesn't believe the Holy Spirit wants to be 'worshipped and glorified'. )

So, who says who is a christian, and who is not.

What do all of you have to say?

.....Helen

ah, ya, Nicene Creedos are strickly faking it, not even trying to crack a Bible. imo

 

[Stranger]

@ByGrace

And of course muslims are not Christian any way shape or form though some try and pretend to be.

Stranger

 

[Enoch111]

Amen for sure. But I doubt they would want to claim to be so!

The Jehovah's Witnesses -- who deny the deity of Christ -- sincerely believe that they are the true Christians and all the others are false.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

So, who says who is a christian, and who is not.

What do all of you have to say?

.....Helen

A Christian is a disciple of Christ (Acts 11:26). It is about that relationship and following Christ.
When a person tries to make it about passing a theology test (like "you must agree with every line of X"), they're really missing the point. We aren't saved by our knowledge of God, but our acceptance of Him. Praised are the little children who love and follow with meekness. Scorned is the young rich man who knows of Christ, but doesn't have the heart to follow Him.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Do you believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God and Saviour? If one believes that, then he comes to Christ as Lord and Saviour. That is the Christian.

Stranger

James 2:17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.

Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

2 Timothy 3: But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of stress. 2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, fierce, haters of good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding the form of religion but denying the power of it. Avoid such people.​

The parable of the sower tells us that people will believe Jesus is our Saviour, but other circumstances prevail. Personally, when I go to church I expect to be greeted, seated, and fed. Of course I only attend when there's a potluck and I bring a fork. And I NEVER waste MY MONEY in the "offering plate". I worked hard for it, and I'm going to keep it for my needs and wants. And I have a LOT of WANTS!

Bobby Jo

 

[charity]

Hello @"ByGrace",

As we know, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. It's entrance brings light, and light reveals the presence of sin within, and the need of a Saviour. That same Word, reveals the truth that God has provided a Saviour: that His only Begotten Son has paid the penalty of our sin, by dying in our place, and rose again from the dead, that we through Him may also know resurrection life, both working in us while here, but also as a promise for eternity in God's presence.

I believe that this is the beginning of the work of God within the life of the one who has received life from above.

The opinion of others, and the creeds, have no importance: for what matters is the believers relationship with His Lord and Saviour. It is nobody else's business but his own.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Hidden In Him]

Aside from faith in Christ, I honestly don't think many expectations can be insisted upon where beliefs are concerned; for the early church, yes, but not for us today. Church doctrine at this point in history is now - and I mean across the board - SO screwed up that you can have people coming to genuine faith in Jesus Christ from ALL SORTS of different backgrounds, and even from total ignorance. I wasn't raised a Christian, and when I became one I had absolutely no clue. I thought the Book of Job was pronounced "job" (as in "get a job"). I came to Christ totally on my own without the help of a church or anyone leading me to Christ, and over time it was my study of scripture that began revealing to me truth from falsehood.

Was I saved back then? Just as much as I am today, if not more so. Now I do think faith in Christ as the Son of God is essential, but if someone were to adopt Christianity in their heart without having come to that realization yet, who would be able to say that person was not yet a Christian if they had turned to the God of scripture with all their heart, as I did?

 

[Enoch111]

It is nobody else's business but his own.

Until there is a blatant denial of the doctrine of Christ.

 

[charity]

When is a christian NOT a Christian?

When Christ is absent.

Christ/ian.

When the knowledge of Christ as both Saviour and Lord is not there.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[bbyrd009]

@ByGrace

And of course muslims are not Christian any way shape or form though some try and pretend to be.

Stranger

ya if you want me to get that this time of year you gotta tag me k, like you...um, didnt tag Helen.

 

[bbyrd009]

curious do you very often hear ppl saying that they didnt...ya. nevermind.

 

[EllenDiann]

Nice, but that is cope out. And I expect that from most of the posts.
No doubt we will get lists of verses from the bible.
We already all know what the bible says...

I want to hear what members themselves think. ....You know as well as I do that People are always saying who is a real christian and who is not.

So, does the Nicene Creed define it for you?

Or maybe the Thread subject should read :-

When is a christian not a christian???????
( I have now changed the title)

God calls us BELIEVERS, and those who do not BELIEVE are condemned already. There are signs that follow those who BELIEVE (Mark 16). As Christians we choose daily to be IN HIM or be IN the world, but if we make ourselves a friend of the WORLD we make ourselves an enemy of God and He calls us adulterers (James 4:4). We choose to lose our LIFE FOR HIS SAKE, and if we LOSE our life, we will find life. Daily we choose to walk BY HIS SPIRIT or allow the carnal MIND to rule, but God is clear that when we walk by His SPIRIT we are the SONS OF GOD, and we will reap life. But if we walk by the carnality of our minds we will reap death and destruction. Does a carnal Christian go to heaven? I think God gives all men an opportunity to repent even upon the moment before departing this world, but we choose, He does not force us. We are to pray for all men because it will be our prayers that opens that door for many to have than final opportunity. You can't fake the heart who truly wants to receive God even upon the death bed, God sees the heart. Daily, I choose to WALK BY HIS SPIRIT because the WORD says if we walk by HIS SPIRIT we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. He further says that those who are LED BY HIS SPIRIT, these are the sons of God. God has given to His body, the church, those that believe, the same authority Christ walked in. His Spirit will witness with our spirit that we are sons of God. For my own life, I alone know this about me, and nobody has the insight except by the HOLY SPIRIT to know who I am, except by the fruit of the Spirit that follow me (Romans and Galatians). God sets before all men Life and Death and command us to choose LIFE (Deut 30). Although, all MEN have a RIGHT TO BECOME a SON OF GOD, all men must choose to be IN HIM. IN HIM, we live and move and have our being. Christians is a Word that the unbelievers called those who BELIEVED. For me Christians means I choose Christ as Lord of my Life.

 

[EllenDiann]

The problem is that you have no credibility whatsoever, since everyone who rejects your nonsense is a liar.Just like everyone who is critical of the Catholic Church is a liar for Bread of Life.

And your obnoxious rants are all over this forum.

Fruit check.

 

[Helen]

God calls us BELIEVERS, and those who do not BELIEVE are condemned already. There are signs that follow those who BELIEVE (Mark 16). As Christians we choose daily to be IN HIM or be IN the world, but if we make ourselves a friend of the WORLD we make ourselves an enemy of God and He calls us adulterers (James 4:4). We choose to lose our LIFE FOR HIS SAKE, and if we LOSE our life, we will find life. Daily we choose to walk BY HIS SPIRIT or allow the carnal MIND to rule, but God is clear that when we walk by His SPIRIT we are the SONS OF GOD, and we will reap life. But if we walk by the carnality of our minds we will reap death and destruction. Does a carnal Christian go to heaven? I think God gives all men an opportunity to repent even upon the moment before departing this world, but we choose, He does not force us. We are to pray for all men because it will be our prayers that opens that door for many to have than final opportunity. You can't fake the heart who truly wants to receive God even upon the death bed, God sees the heart. Daily, I choose to WALK BY HIS SPIRIT because the WORD says if we walk by HIS SPIRIT we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. He further says that those who are LED BY HIS SPIRIT, these are the sons of God. God has given to His body, the church, those that believe, the same authority Christ walked in. His Spirit will witness with our spirit that we are sons of God. For my own life, I alone know this about me, and nobody has the insight except by the HOLY SPIRIT to know who I am, except by the fruit of the Spirit that follow me (Romans and Galatians). God sets before all men Life and Death and command us to choose LIFE (Deut 30). Although, all MEN have a RIGHT TO BECOME a SON OF GOD, all men must choose to be IN HIM. IN HIM, we live and move and have our being. Christians is a Word that the unbelievers called those who BELIEVED. For me Christians means I choose Christ as Lord of my Life.

Firstly, welcome to this Forum.

Thanks for your response.
What you have stated is what is for you a Christian. And I agree. But this thread has other issues too.

The things you wrote were private to 'you' personally, like walking in the Spirit and being led by the Spirit.

Are you saying that your defining measure of who is and who is not...is the signs that follow them that believe? If a believer is healing the sick, raising the dead, casting out demons then he /she is a 'true Christian" ?

Im sure you aren't . And anyway, we are here with some kind of device to type on, so how would anyone know how we each lived before the Lord.

When do 'you' rule out somebody as not being a Christian?

Do they have to believe the Nicene Creed to the letter?

Did you read the opening few posts, and the one from our admin #11.

Nice to have you joining in with us here.

 

[Helen]

I do NOT endorse the Nicene (or any other) Creed. Rather I endorse the written scriptures as they are correctly interpreted by the Holy Spirit... The only place we are likely to find that interpretation is in a man's heart as brought to Life there. Who but God has access to all of that information about each and every person?

Yay John. Agree.
I don't like the question either.
It was asked of me, so I posted it.

"For me" it is all too deep for any of us to say "he is not, but he is " neither would I dare. It is a deep heart thing.

I am also very sure that when we all get the fullness of the Kingdom we will all be shocked to see who GOD has said IS!!!
Because that is the very bottom line and all that matters.

I don't know why someone felt that "wise men" should to sit down and decide and come up with the nicene creed....black and white , something to point to and say.." this is it, this defines you." ..and if you do not agree "Off with your head" ( as the Queen of Hearts said in Alice in Wonderland)

Blessings...H

 

[Helen]

Do you believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God and Saviour? If one believes that, then he comes to Christ as Lord and Saviour. That is the Christian.

Stranger

Thanks

So 'for you' all the other stuff, even how they see the godhead , baptisms etc does not matter to you? ( other than for discussions sake)

If so, I agree ( keeping it simple...)

 

[Not me]

( EDIT:- addition....I am added this and changed the heading.
I am NOT after a list of verses about salvation...but I want to hear 'from you'.
I changed the heading when responding to @Enoch111 's post below. )
thanks....
-------

I was thinking it would be interesting what other Christians here think a Christian is...
AND who is 'allowed' to call themselves that?

(We'd like you in on this too @lforrest don't want you missing this post. )

There was some chatter the other day about who was 'allowed' to have "Christian" under their avatar and who should put 'Other Faith', in it's place. ( locking them out of 95% of the forum boards)
So, who defines who can call themselves a christian?

The Nicene creed was mentioned. > for those who don't know it , or have forgotten its content. Nicene Creed

I for one don't agree with a line at the end of it... re the Holy Spirit. It says:-
"He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified."

I don't agree with that... I don't care if they were wise old men with beards.
I don't find that (bolded line) anywhere in the bible at all. In fact it is says He points TO the Father and Son. ( away from Himself)

The Nicene Creed would also define as none-christian any who have a different interpretation of what is called "The Trinity" ...with all the gobbledegook that goes with it about whether it is three persons in one, or one person with three distinct expressions...blah blah blah...
So, if the Nicene Creed is the acid test....are the none trinitarians not christians along with me...( who doesn't believe the Holy Spirit wants to be 'worshipped and glorified'. )

So, who says who is a christian, and who is not.

What do all of you have to say?

.....Helen

Hi, ok, I’ll put in my penny and a half worth, not quite two cents.

Jesus said “you must be born again”

So I’m going to go with those that are “born again” are Christians, those that aren’t, aren't.

(my understanding)

Blessings,

Much love in Christ, Not me

 

[Helen]

Aside from faith in Christ, I honestly don't think many expectations can be insisted upon where beliefs are concerned; for the early church, yes, but not for us today. Church doctrine at this point in history is now - and I mean across the board - SO screwed up that you can have people coming to genuine faith in Jesus Christ from ALL SORTS of different backgrounds, and even from total ignorance. I wasn't raised a Christian, and when I became one I had absolutely no clue. I thought the Book of Job was pronounced "job" (as in "get a job"). I came to Christ totally on my own without the help of a church or anyone leading me to Christ, and over time it was my study of scripture that began revealing to me truth from falsehood.

Was I saved back then? Just as much as I am today, if not more so. Now I do think faith in Christ as the Son of God is essential, but if someone were to adopt Christianity in their heart without having come to that realization yet, who would be able to say that person was not yet a Christian if they had turned to the God of scripture with all their heart, as I did?

Amen Chris Good post ....100%.... Well said.

 

[Helen]

When is a christian NOT a Christian?

When Christ is absent.

Christ/ian.

When the knowledge of Christ as both Saviour and Lord is not there.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Haha!! Good one Charity...I like that...again...to the bone and uncomplicated.

Thank you.

 

[Stranger]

Thanks

So 'for you' all the other stuff, even how they see the godhead , baptisms etc does not matter to you? ( other than for discussions sake)

If so, I agree ( keeping it simple...)

When one first comes to Jesus Christ as his Saviour, he may not know much, but he believes what he has heard. Jesus Christ is the Son of God and Saviour. Salvation is found in Him. And...the only reason he believes that is because God has opened his eyes to see it, else he would never see it.

So, yes, that is all that is required. The Trinity, baptisms, and many other things matter to me. But that doesn't change ones initial salvation. Simple belief in Christ as the Son of God and Saviour is all that is required....but, that is required.

Stranger