When is a christian NOT a Christian?

[bbyrd009]

Unfortunately you are wrong, for the simple reason that no Creed is Scripture. John 1:12,13 tells you who is a Christian. There are many other Scripture to back that up.

pEnoch you do realize you're telling her she's wrong and agreeing with her at the same time right

 

[bbyrd009]

I take your point. Even in the final judgement, the harvest isn't taken up until the fruit is ripe. And even non believers can do good deeds, although we can sort through that by observing the general tenor and direction of the life. The odd misdeed of the Christian didn't disqualify him, not does the odd good deed of the heathen qualify him. Do where does that leave is in regards to identifying brethren online? Not in the odd post containing disagreeable statements or doctrines, but I think maybe as above, in the general tenor and spirit and the manner in which the posts are presented. Constant belligerence... Criticism... Put downs... Negativity... Could be a fairly good sign that the person needs conversion... Or a fairly good sign that a person needs anti depressants. Not sure I'm getting anywhere here.

Works are all that will be judged bro sorry. see you're inferring a judgment here that you can't Quote nor find anywhere?

 

[bbyrd009]

Hey, I get all that, and accept it. But you didn't accurately answer my question. What satisfied Jesus as an answer to the question, who is He? Should we demand of others a higher standard or greater understanding than what Jesus accepted of Peter?
Particularly when we consider the following...
KJV 1 John 4
15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

it is a good verse BL, unfortunately that says confess, and we profess that, a large but subtle difference

 

[Miss Hepburn]

How about if you never read anything and simply believe
and live Christ? What if you somehow one day receive the spirit of God the Father and his only begotten son.
I will take time to read the Nicene Creed, I probably have read it already, I did my Catechism.

You're asking 'me'...that is above my pay grade, my friend! LOL.
But, I don't label people ..they call themselves what they will....atheist, Buddhist-whatever.
But, if you are asking ''what if '' questions...I'd say that person would be quite lucky !!

 

[Miss Hepburn]

So, with your desire to not use the Bible, plus your denial of the Triune nature of the Godhead: you are not a Christian.

Fascinating ...another definition...you must believe in the Trinity.
That would follow one of the many conditions in the Nicene Creed, yes.
(I give no definitions...I just am saying that is fascinating , cuz diff people say diff things....that's all...not starting trouble!!...lol)

 

[bbyrd009]

that a person needs anti depressants.

yes, some ppl just need a prescription huh bl. Esp if they are offensive and hurt our feelings, right? A man's enemies will be those of his own household bl. See those are the ppl who refuse to witness or hurt your feelings, bro. "See something say something" is strickly for strangers, see

 

[JohnPaul]

I guess pretty much everyone does John Paul, yes

Thank you Sir.

 

[illini1959]

( EDIT:- addition....I am added this and changed the heading.
I am NOT after a list of verses about salvation...but I want to hear 'from you'.
I changed the heading when responding to @Enoch111 's post below. )
thanks....
-------

I was thinking it would be interesting what other Christians here think a Christian is...
AND who is 'allowed' to call themselves that?

(We'd like you in on this too @lforrest don't want you missing this post. )

There was some chatter the other day about who was 'allowed' to have "Christian" under their avatar and who should put 'Other Faith', in it's place. ( locking them out of 95% of the forum boards)
So, who defines who can call themselves a christian?

The Nicene creed was mentioned. > for those who don't know it , or have forgotten its content. Nicene Creed

I for one don't agree with a line at the end of it... re the Holy Spirit. It says:-
"He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified."

I don't agree with that... I don't care if they were wise old men with beards.
I don't find that (bolded line) anywhere in the bible at all. In fact it is says He points TO the Father and Son. ( away from Himself)

The Nicene Creed would also define as none-christian any who have a different interpretation of what is called "The Trinity" ...with all the gobbledegook that goes with it about whether it is three persons in one, or one person with three distinct expressions...blah blah blah...
So, if the Nicene Creed is the acid test....are the none trinitarians not christians along with me...( who doesn't believe the Holy Spirit wants to be 'worshipped and glorified'. )

So, who says who is a christian, and who is not.

What do all of you have to say?

.....Helen

The word "Christian" has become a catch-all for any denomination claiming to follow Christ on some level.

A (true) Christian is one who has received Christ as their Savior as per the NT.

 

[Soverign Grace]

This is why I don’t follow denominations I follow my heart, which led me here.

I like to hear that. I think somehow one's faith seems truer when you follow your heart rather than the dictates of your denomination.

 

[Soverign Grace]

LoL. I doubt one could be a member of Bohemian Grove and a Christian at the same time, and the Bushes are the equivalent of American Royalty, and unquestioned members of that Satanist click. Of course, in occultism everything gets twisted around to where all things "Christian" get entirely redefined. But as far as being real Christians in Spirit and Truth, not on your life, LoL.

Very well said. You seem to know Bush's background but our pastor didn't and when I tried to tell him he didn't respond. I tried to tell a pastor at our bible study and he warned me I'd better watch what I read on the internet. I used to look on pastors as having such a better grasp on the bible and all things spiritual but after years in various churches I see that often Christians without titles - such as you - know more than pastors at times. It's such a shame that Christians are hoodwinked by the likes of Bush.

 

[Helen]

Part of the definition of a Christian is that one would use Bible verses to define 'Christian'.
So, with your desire to not use the Bible, plus your denial of the Triune nature of the Godhead: you are not a Christian.

You are talking a load of rubbish here.
If you read the post correctly you would have understood what this thread was about. What I was trying to convey ( and most people understood) ...any clown can just respond to any post with a bible scripture , that does not a discussion make.

What I asked for was not 'what or who a christian is '...but who has the right to tell someone else that they are not. (obviously you feel very qualified to do so.)

If we are being forthright here, as you seem to be...
I have read your posts in many threads and often wondered if you have ever had a real face to face encounter with the Lord.

But, that is not my call, God knows . Just as it is not your place to tell someone else that because they don't cross this T , or dot that 'I' their salvation experience is not valid. ( in your eyes)

Did you read post #11 by the way?
That is the clarification that I was after when I started this thread.

 

[farouk]

I didn't mean to put them on 'ignore' but rather to refuse to be drawn into discussing their negative responses. I don't see that those sort of posts 'balance' anything. Just saying.

Sometimes if discussions become fruitless, then it's best just to move on...

 

[Pearl]

Sometimes if discussions become fruitless, then it's best just to move on...

Absolutely farouk, and there are a lot of fruitless and pointless discussions/ arguments on here and on every other Christian forum I've ever been on. And usually it's the same old chestnuts that are argued about.

 

[farouk]

Absolutely farouk, and there are a lot of fruitless and pointless discussions/ arguments on here and on every other Christian forum I've ever been on. And usually it's the same old chestnuts that are argued about.

Philippians 4.8 - all those whatsoevers - provide so much that we can indeed concentrate on to profit, for God's glory.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

A (true) Christian is one who has received Christ as their Savior as per the NT.

Hi, illini. I'm not challenging you ... Just a question...so if you do not believe, say...in the Virgin birth or the Trinity or being Born Again (as some have said) or
say, Jesus performed miracles or he rose from the dead or other things I am just making up!!!...that's ok?
You are still a Christian with that one belief? (You did say ''as per NT''...so I guess one would have to believe
in every word of it?)....would you disregard the definition of a what is a Christian that was set up?
(Meaning the Nicene Council's definition that no one has challenged?)
If you think I'm putting you on the spot and came by casually, I'm sorry and it's ok....forget the 3rd degree!

 

[Pearl]

Hi, illini. I'm not challenging you ... Just a question...so if you do not believe, say...in the Virgin birth or the Trinity or being Born Again (as some have said) or
say, Jesus performed miracles or he rose from the dead or other things I am just making up!!!...that's ok?
You are still a Christian with that one belief? (You did say ''as per NT''...so I guess one would have to believe
in every word of it?)....would you disregard the definition of a what is a Christian that was set up?
(Meaning the Nicene Council's definition that no one has challenged?)
If you think I'm putting you on the spot and came by casually, I'm sorry and it's ok....forget the 3rd degree!

I don't think you need to believe anything to become a Christian apart from acknowledging your need of God's love, grace and forgiveness through Jesus. Once you are born again you can learn all the other stuff.

 

[Pearl]

Philippians 4.8 - all those whatsoevers - provide so much that we can indeed concentrate on to profit, for God's glory.

Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable – if anything is excellent or praiseworthy – think about such things.

 

[farouk]

Hi, illini. I'm not challenging you ... Just a question...so if you do not believe, say...in the Virgin birth or the Trinity or being Born Again (as some have said) or
say, Jesus performed miracles or he rose from the dead or other things I am just making up!!!...that's ok?
You are still a Christian with that one belief? (You did say ''as per NT''...so I guess one would have to believe
in every word of it?)....would you disregard the definition of a what is a Christian that was set up?
(Meaning the Nicene Council's definition that no one has challenged?)
If you think I'm putting you on the spot and came by casually, I'm sorry and it's ok....forget the 3rd degree!

We do indeed need to approach God's Word in an attitude of faith and trust; if denying its central contents is how we come to make a profession, it's not a Biblical profession. "What think ye of Christ? Whose Son is He?" (Matthew 22.42)

 

[Miss Hepburn]

I don't think you need to believe anything to become a Christian apart from acknowledging
your need of God's love, grace and forgiveness through Jesus.
Once you are born again you can learn all the other stuff.

Hi Pearl, What you said seems simple to me....
Yet, a Hindu could acknowledge the need for God's love and also a Muslim...so acknowledging grace and forgiveness thru Jesus...
that would be very particularly Christian!
(Bear with me, gosh, I feel like I'm grilling nice people!)
What if a person never really is Born Again, cuz it is something that knocks you off your feet...they are just your everyday church going
good guy...not born again,yet...( I ask only cuz some think THAT is a must to be a Christian...not trying to trap you!!!!!! ok?) Ha!
And you don't even have to ans...life is short...
I have to go to the Humane Society now and see if this sweet cat I brought back to life almost and has been safe with me
for 2 yrs is there...so innocent...it just disappeared!!! Oh brother!
Take care ...LOVE the flowers in that photo...I used to do exactly those in stain glass I'm done now...mostly in pinks, yellow
and white,tho, on a branch with green leaves...I love the red!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Very well said. You seem to know Bush's background but our pastor didn't and when I tried to tell him he didn't respond. I tried to tell a pastor at our bible study and he warned me I'd better watch what I read on the internet. I used to look on pastors as having such a better grasp on the bible and all things spiritual but after years in various churches I see that often Christians without titles - such as you - know more than pastors at times. It's such a shame that Christians are hoodwinked by the likes of Bush.

Spiritually revealed. Many if not most pastors don't teach what the Spirit of God has taught them; they teach what their denomination has. They teach the traditions of men in nearly all things, especially doctrine.