What Do The Book of Daniel DECEIVERS Present?!?

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Jay Ross

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??
What's "a Bible Student Article"?
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I understand the parallel that you are trying to make, but in what I am writing here right now, I am not going to Rev. at the moment. If the foundation is off, the roof won't looking too good!
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I'm sure, if what I write doesn't agree with the concepts of "scholarly learning", it must be off in your mind. That's ok, because from where I am looking, the roof you are building, is not looking good at all.
Try to stay on topic with Daniel and the LH first.
Let's square up and level the foundation, then build to the roof.

But your foundation is only of sand which can easily be made level with a screed, but when the latter rain comes, the water will undermine your house of cards and it will collapse into a heap of ruin which may be very difficult to escape from.

Now when looking at the writings of Daniel, we should also carefully consider the writings of the other prophets as they compliment each other and provide the information to fill in the missing observations of one prophet with the observations of another.

You are looking at the manifestations of the spiritual entities that have influence for a time over the people groups that have manifested their primary characteristics.

Jeremiah places a 2,000 plus years between the third and the fourth segment of the Daniel 2 statue prophecy. Revelation 16:17-21 confirms that after the turmoil of WW1, Babylon will be remembered once again for the wrath of God to fall on Babylon during the end times.

For this reason, the Roman Empire is not the fourth segment of the statue prophecy.

The Greek Empire is confirmed by scripture to be the third segment though, but the Grecian Empires have faded from view today and have been replaced by other people groups and nations such that they too are inclined to "the four winds of heaven" and the influence of the "four winds of heaven" doing their bidding and yet today many of the learned scholars are having difficulty is seeing the spiritual aspects and control what is being exerted by the spiritual entities written about in the OT and NT.

Many on this form have succumb to the influence of the Little Horn/False Prophet and you are no exception.

Shalom
 
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Phoneman777

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ALL of the 70 weeks were completed in HIM, who also PERFORMED every detail of Daniel 9:24.
I fully believe "finish, make, make, bring in, seal up, and anoint" are fulfilled in Christ, and will be an outward reality upon His return.

We weren't talking about that.

We were talking about the AoD, which is an event that happens after Jesus' day...which means Antiochus has nothing to do with any fulfillment of it.
 

CharismaticLady

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I would not be trusting that new found data too much. Scripture, by the holy Spirit reveals that there was only ONE LH, and AE4 was him!
The math in Mac, proves it out to the day, as pertaining to the prophecy concerning him.
There is no future LH to come, nor has there been any others since AE4.
KJV Rev. does not read anything at all, of using the words "the little horn".
The prophecy of the 70 weeks finalized IN and BY Jesus.

The math in Maccabees? I didn't notice, but its been decades since I read it, but never plan to again. Too gruesome.

The little horns from Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 could both refer to Antiochus E IV, seeing as now it appears he was now a Roman, but I'll have to do a lot more reading. However, Daniel 7 does have ties to the second coming of Christ. I'm going to keep an open mind. (I probably won't be alive then anyway, so I'll never see for myself.)
 

CharismaticLady

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I fully believe "finish, make, make, bring in, seal up, and anoint" are fulfilled in Christ, and will be an outward reality upon His return.

We weren't talking about that.

We were talking about the AoD, which is an event that happens after Jesus' day...which means Antiochus has nothing to do with any fulfillment of it.

But Titus is after Jesus, did you take that into account? The Jewish revolt was from 66 AD to 73 AD (7 years), with 70 A D in the middle.
 

Phoneman777

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There's no need to do so. Here's how it works.

The decree of Cyrus-------->the crucifixion of Christ---> 483 years
Gabriel said the commandment would involve actions "to restore and to build Jerusalem".

And here's why the decrees of Cyrus and Darius cannot be that which Gabriel spoke of in Daniel's passage: Both Cyrus and Darius made decrees that were limited to just the Jewish temple which is just one component of the whole, that whole being the city of Jerusalem.

Only Artaxerxes' comprehensive decree can be that which authorized action "to restore and to build Jerusalem" by virtue of language that involved the temple, the judiciary, and ordinance enforcement by the constabulary - which decree was given in 457 B.C. If you count 483 years, you come to Jesus' baptism in 27 A.D., His death in 31 A.D., and the end of the 70 with the stoning of Stephen and the Gospel immediately going to the Gentiles in 34 A.D. Historicism is bulletproof.
 

CharismaticLady

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Gabriel said the commandment would involve actions "to restore and to build Jerusalem".

And here's why the decrees of Cyrus and Darius cannot be that which Gabriel spoke of in Daniel's passage: Both Cyrus and Darius made decrees that were limited to just the Jewish temple which is just one component of the whole, that whole being the city of Jerusalem.

Only Artaxerxes' comprehensive decree can be that which authorized action "to restore and to build Jerusalem" by virtue of language that involved the temple, the judiciary, and ordinance enforcement by the constabulary - which decree was given in 457 B.C. If you count 483 years, you come to Jesus' baptism in 27 A.D., His death in 31 A.D., and the end of the 70 with the stoning of Stephen and the Gospel immediately going to the Gentiles in 34 A.D. Historicism is bulletproof.

70 AD you have as the stoning of Stephen? You probably meant 34 AD at the end of the 7 years. But don't you find it odd that the prophecy goes from the Messiah 27 AD to His death (cut off) 31 AD, then up to 70 AD, then backwards to 27 AD. - 34 AD? Verse 27 starts with "Then" so that should be either connected to 70 AD or beyond.
 

Earburner

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Did you miss the fourth beast of Daniel 7 had teeth of IRON. That correlates to the legs of IRON of Daniel 2, specifically ROME. But that being said, I just found out that in 190 BC, Rome defeated King Antiochus III, Antiochus Epiphanes IV's father, so maybe the son was then out of Rome, and no longer Greece for that part of the world. This puts the book of Daniel in a whole new light, and we must look up ancient history to pull out the truth. Interesting with the increase in knowledge (and technology) we can.
I am not concerned about the 4th Beast of Daniel as of yet.
No one has picked up on the FACT that there is ONLY one Little Horn in Daniel, being AE4.
There is no "another" future LH to come either.
You asked me a question! That is THE answer!
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99% of Daniel's visions do not prophesy past the first appearance of Jesus. The 70th week was completely fulfilled by Jesus, as outlined in Dan. 9:24 and 27.
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Hear what is being said:
There is no future AoD to come again, because in anti-type, Jesus Himself was the AoD, as well as the Restoration.
 

CharismaticLady

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I am not concerned about the 4th Beast of Daniel as of yet.
No one has picked up on the FACT that there is ONLY one Little Horn in Daniel, being AE4.
There is no "another" future LH to come either.
You asked me a question! That is THE answer!
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99% of Daniel's visions do not prophesy past the first appearance of Jesus. The 70th week was completely fulfilled by Jesus, as outlined in Dan. 9:24 and 27.
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Hear what is being said:
There is no future AoD to come again, because in anti-type, Jesus Himself was the AoD, as well as the Restoration.


Yes, I did, but you probably haven't come to it yet. I said:

The little horns from Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 could both refer to Antiochus E IV, seeing as now it appears he was now a Roman, but I'll have to do a lot more reading. However, Daniel 7 does have ties to the second coming of Christ. I'm going to keep an open mind. (I probably won't be alive then anyway, so I'll never see for myself.)
 

Earburner

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For this reason, the Roman Empire is not the fourth segment of the statue prophecy.

The Greek Empire is confirmed by scripture to be the third segment though, but the Grecian Empires have faded from view today and have been replaced by other people groups and nations such that they too are inclined to "the four winds of heaven" and the influence of the "four winds of heaven" doing their bidding and yet today many of the learned scholars are having difficulty is seeing the spiritual aspects and control that is being exerted by the spiritual entities written about in the OT and NT.
Let's look at the reality of what you apparently have misconstrued.
The beginning of the 4th Beast is most surely the Roman Empire, splitting into Europe and the RCC being the two legs of iron. That evolved into the feet and toes of partly iron and partly clay, which is now the EU of 28 countries. 18 of them shall fall away and/or combine to form the 10 horns/kings, who have received no kingdom as of yet, but shall for one hour with the Beast (EU)
Of what causes the 18 to disperse, you are not ready to hear or know at this time.
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Now since you are so convinced that the Roman legs of iron and the Grecian bronze are all gone away, pay attention to where they ended up to be:
Rev. 13[1] And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
[2] And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
> Who are they today? With the 10 horns (of Europe still evolving), they are those whose dominions were taken away, but their lives (people, customs, traditions) were prolonged. Dan. 7:12
 

Earburner

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Gabriel said the commandment would involve actions "to restore and to build Jerusalem".

And here's why the decrees of Cyrus and Darius cannot be that which Gabriel spoke of in Daniel's passage: Both Cyrus and Darius made decrees that were limited to just the Jewish temple which is just one component of the whole, that whole being the city of Jerusalem.

Only Artaxerxes' comprehensive decree can be that which authorized action "to restore and to build Jerusalem" by virtue of language that involved the temple, the judiciary, and ordinance enforcement by the constabulary - which decree was given in 457 B.C. If you count 483 years, you come to Jesus' baptism in 27 A.D., His death in 31 A.D., and the end of the 70 with the stoning of Stephen and the Gospel immediately going to the Gentiles in 34 A.D. Historicism is bulletproof.
By all means don't lose your calculator!
 

Earburner

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I fully believe "finish, make, make, bring in, seal up, and anoint" are fulfilled in Christ, and will be an outward reality upon His return.

We weren't talking about that.

We were talking about the AoD, which is an event that happens after Jesus' day...which means Antiochus has nothing to do with any fulfillment of it.
There IS NO future event of an AoD!!

Do you understand the concept of "type" and "anti-type". The prophecy about the little horn of the 3rd beast (Grecian) was fulfilled and fleshed out to be Antiochus Epiphanes of the Seleucid Empire. It is was he who committed the act of the AoD, that Jesus talked about.
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Now since that prophecy WAS fulfilled, it can NEVER be fulfilled again, but it can be used as type and anti-type, which is exactly what Jesus did, and was pointing to it, as being about Himself, as well as the restoration of the temple
I believe I went over this before a few pages back, in greater detail.
 

Earburner

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The math in Maccabees? I didn't notice, but its been decades since I read it, but never plan to again. Too gruesome.
Yes! For the 1290 day prophecy, the math is extremely accurate, concerning AE4, the AoD, the restoration of the temple by Judas Mac., and get this, even the blessing of him who waits unto the 1335 days. Dan. 12:11-12.
That was the "type"
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Now, are you ready for this? Here is the "anti-type":
It's the exact time frame from Jesus' Baptism to the Day of Pentecost!
Weren't the disciples told by Jesus to go to Jerusalem, and to wait for the Promise from on High?
Yes! It was, and they did, being truly BLESSED!:)
 

CharismaticLady

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Yes! For the 1290 day prophecy, the math is extremely accurate, concerning AE4, the AoD, the restoration of the temple by Judas Mac., and get this, even the blessing of him who waits unto the 1335 days. Dan. 12:11-12.
That was the "type"
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Now, are you ready for this? Here is the "anti-type":
It's the exact time frame from Jesus' Baptism to the Day of Pentecost!
Weren't the disciples told by Jesus to go to Jerusalem, and to wait for the Promise from on High?
Yes! It was, and they did, being truly BLESSED!:)

Wow, I'll have to add that up!
Just added it and I don't come up with 1335. Break it down for me.
 

Jay Ross

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Let's look at the reality of what you apparently have misconstrued.
The beginning of the 4th Beast is most surely the Roman Empire, splitting into Europe and the RCC being the two legs of iron. That evolved into the feet and toes of partly iron and partly clay, which is now the EU of 28 countries. 18 of them shall fall away and/or combine to form the 10 horns/kings, who have received no kingdom as of yet, but shall for one hour with the Beast (EU)
Of what causes the 18 to disperse, you are not ready to hear or know at this time.
.
Now since you are so convinced that the Roman legs of iron and the Grecian bronze are all gone away, pay attention to where they ended up to be:
Rev. 13[1] And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
[2] And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
> Who are they today? With the 10 horns (of Europe still evolving), they are those whose dominions were taken away, but their lives (people, customs, traditions) were prolonged. Dan. 7:12

So be it Earburner, have it your way, you are the scholar of these times with the wisdom that is able to be written onto the pointy end of a pin.

You are looking for answers in the wrong quarter and are relying on history construed by Satan and his angelic cohorts to lead you astray. Not every End Time Prophecies provides a complete picture of the events they are describing, and as such I have found that the answers are found scattered through the whole of the Bible that confirms the understanding that I presently comes too. We must also be careful about which prophecies that we also combine together and first must establish if the respective prophecies are even related.

When you have untangled your understanding and put the events and the timeline into its proper order, then I would be prepared to listen to your POV's, but since you are so stubborn, and can only hold firmly to what it is that you believe and understand, then this interaction is becoming pointless.

Have a great day wallowing in your mud bath.

Shalom
 
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Earburner

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The little horns from Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 could both refer to Antiochus E IV, seeing as now it appears he was now a Roman, but I'll have to do a lot more reading. However, Daniel 7 does have ties to the second coming of Christ. I'm going to keep an open mind. (I probably won't be alive then anyway, so I'll never see for myself.)
EVERY professing Christian should at least read all of 1 Maccabees ch. 1, for the details of what Jesus was referencing to as the AoD, and how much of a violent mad man "the little horn" Antiochus Epiphanes lV really was.
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Yes, above all, we should keep an open mind, and to not allow denominational doctrines to box us in.
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Here are some quotes on AE4, and the AoD, of which Jesus referenced, as being the type to Himself, who was the anti-type, both in the destruction (desolation) of the temple of His body, and the resurrection (restoration) of it.
John 2:18-22.
For indeed, that was the ultimate abomination to God His Father!
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1 Maccabees 1[7] So Alexander reigned twelves years, and then died.
[8] And his servants bare rule every one in his place.
[9] And after his death they all put crowns upon themselves; so did their sons after them many years: and evils were multiplied in the earth.
[10] And there came out of them a wicked root Antiochus surnamed Epiphanes, son of Antiochus the king, who had been an hostage at Rome, and he reigned in the hundred and thirty and seventh year of the kingdom of the Greeks.
1 Mac. 1[41] Moreover king Antiochus wrote to his whole kingdom, that all should be one people,
[42] And every one should leave his laws: so all the heathen agreed according to the commandment of the king.
[43] Yea, many also of the Israelites consented to his religion, and sacrificed unto idols, and profaned the sabbath.
[44] For the king had sent letters by messengers unto Jerusalem and the cities of Juda that they should follow the strange laws of the land,
[45] And forbid burnt offerings, and sacrifice, and drink offerings, in the temple; and that they should profane the sabbaths and festival days:
[46] And pollute the sanctuary and holy people:
[47] Set up altars, and groves, and chapels of idols, and sacrifice swine's flesh, and unclean beasts:
[48] That they should also leave their children uncircumcised, and make their souls abominable with all manner of uncleanness and profanation:
[49] To the end they might forget the law, and change all the ordinances.
[50] And whosoever would not do according to the commandment of the king, he said, he should die.

1 Mac. 1[54] Now the fifteenth day of the month Casleu, in the hundred forty and fifth year, they set up the abomination of desolation upon the altar, and builded idol altars throughout the cities of Juda on every side;
[55] And burnt incense at the doors of their houses, and in the streets.
[56] And when they had rent in pieces the books of the law which they found, they burnt them with fire.
[57] And whosoever was found with any the book of the testament, or if any committed to the law, the king's commandment was, that they should put him to death.
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1 Mac. 6[12] But now I remember the evils that I did at Jerusalem, and that I took all the vessels of gold and silver that were therein, and sent to destroy the inhabitants of Judea without a cause.
[13] I perceive therefore that for this cause these troubles are come upon me, and, behold, I perish through great grief in a strange land.
[14] Then called he for Philip, one of his friends, who he made ruler over all his realm,
[15] And gave him the crown, and his robe, and his signet, to the end he should bring up his son Antiochus, and nourish him up for the kingdom.
[16] So king Antiochus [Epiphanes] died there in the hundred forty and ninth year.
 

Earburner

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Wow, I'll have to add that up!
Just added it and I don't come up with 1335. Break it down for me.
Wow also!
Like you, I studied that years ago. I am partly now, pointing it out by memory.
I can attest, and shall prove that it does all add up!!
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So then, since you are truly interested to see and hear it, I will go back over it for YOU, and anyone else who is sincerely interested.
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Just to let you know in advance, when I do present it, it will disturb and unseat a lot of what has been taught by the visible churches. So please don't be alarmed, as our minds of "the natural man" tend to do, when Truth confronts preconceived ideas and doctrines.
The Holy Spirit WILL guide you, to be able to discern and trash that which has always been questionable in your mind.
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Unfortunately, for study, it is a bit lengthy, but I will present it in a few segments, so that you can discern it for yourself and digest it.
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Therefore, until I complete it, I may not be responding to CB regularly. It even may be that I shall start a new thread with it.
I shall let you know how it's progressing, before I post.
 

Earburner

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So be it Earburner, have it your way, your are the scholar of these times with the wisdom that is able to be written onto the pointy end of a pin.

You are looking for answers in the wrong quarter and are relying on history construed by Satan and his angelic cohorts to lead you astray. Not every End Time Prophecies provides a complete picture of the events they are describing, and as such I have found that the answers are found scattered through the whole of the Bible that confirms the understanding that I presently comes too. We must also be careful about which prophecies that we also combine together and first must establish if the respective prophecies are even related.

When you have untangled your understanding and put the events and the timeline into its proper order, then I would be prepared to listen to your POV's, but since you are so stubborn, and can only hold firmly to what it is that you believe and understand, then this interaction is becoming pointless.

Have a great day wallowing in your mud bath.

Shalom
What did you want to hear, that Israel, with it's Temple will reign on the earth with Christ, under Jewish Law, for a thousand years?
It's NOT going to happen!!
 

CharismaticLady

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[15] And gave him the crown, and his robe, and his signet, to the end he should bring up his son Antiochus, and nourish him up for the kingdom.
[16] So king Antiochus [Epiphanes] died there in the hundred forty and ninth year.

Same name, but this is referencing the King AEIII, not IV. The king gave his son the crown, robe, and ring on his death bed. Interesting that google and Maccabees show different dates. (I think...haven't had my coffee yet!)