BreadOfLife ~ UNPROVEN CLAIMS..

[ScottA]

This has never been a teaching of the historic Christian faith - and NONE of your Protestant Fathers taught this nonsense. Sooooooo, why do YOU and @ScottA espouse this heresy??

Because God has "send strong delusion" among the church, but we are "children of Light", and "joy comes in the morning."

 

[epostle]

Hahaha. Hijacking this thread? YOU , IN THIS THREAD, WERE THE ONE WHO CLAIMED YOUR CHURCH HAD SCRIPTURAL BACKING FOR ALL YOUR DOCTRINES!!!! Now that I challenge that assertion you scramble for cover??? Of course you do, because, you are proved wrong... Not by me, but by your own church.

All Catholic doctrines are derived either directly or indirectly from Scripture. Scripture is the primary source, but not the only source. There is nothing in Scripture that says Scripture must be the only source, that is your man made tradition.

 

[epostle]

Because God has "send strong delusion" among the church, but we are "children of Light", and "joy comes in the morning."

There is nothing in Scripture or history that God sends delusions. We are all sinners, as taught by Scripture, Orthodox, Catholics and most Protestants for 2000 years. Being "born again" does not remove ones humanity.
You have a very private theology that contradicts 99.999% of Christiandom.

 

[brakelite]

All Catholic doctrines are derived either directly or indirectly from Scripture. Scripture is the primary source, but not the only source. There is nothing in Scripture that says Scripture must be the only source, that is your man made tradition.

Yet I referenced one doctrine that your own church boasts is not derived from scripture and uses that as the basis for rebuking protestants because despite the Protestant claim to Sola scriptura protestants cleave to that very same doctrine that Catholicism boasts of not being derived from scripture... Either directly or indirectly.

 

[Taken]

a) So - YOU claim that God has forgiven your sins -

Correct. The Lord has FORGIVEN ALL of my Sins.

and in the same breath, you say that He has merely "covered" them.

Incorrect. At no time have I minimized what the Lord has done FOR ME, or BLESSED me WITH.

LIE #1.

My God is Greater than YOUR ACCUSATIONS AGAINST His POWER and BLESSINGS TO ME, and ACCUSATIONS toward me that it is a LIE for me to BELIEVE what He has done for me.

Rom 4:7
Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

Either He has covered your sins "OR" he has forgiven them, To forgive means to "remit" and to "release".

FALSE. Scripture does NOT teach an "OR" circumstance as YOU TEACH.

Again, you attempting to rewrite Scripture, which has ZERO effect on me.

NOT Once was I instructed to BELIEVE IN YOU, FOLLOW YOU, or TRUST YOUR WORDS....NOR DO I.

b) You have states that you sin no more.

Correct.

Once I Received HIS HOLY Spirit and HIS SEED....I was Converted and MADE...BY the POWER, AUTHORITY, and WORD of God..."born of God"...ONCE and FOREVER.

By the Indwelling POWER of God within me...
"THAT KEEPS me IN FAITHFULNESS TO HIM..."
NEVER AGAIN...... NO MORE
Can I EVER Stand AGAINST God, Not Believe IN God, COMMIT SIN AGAINST GOD!

With the above statements, YOU are claiming to have NO sin in your life.

Incorrect.
Spiritually, thee Lord God, who IS SPIRIT, has SPIRITUALLY Cleansed MY BODY with HIS BLOOD.
Naturally MY FLESH is Still ALIVE, and STILL HAS SIN "IN IT".
MY Lord Gods SPIRIT DWELLS IN MY NATURAL BODY, and COVERS "MY SIN", with HIS SPIRIT, (WHICH IS PURE LIGHT).

Everyone SHOULD KNOW...
Sin IS Darkness.
Light Covers Darkness.
When Light Covers Darkness, the Darkness IS NO LONGER SEEN.

I have NEVER said I have no sin...<---THAT is False and Stupid.

My BODY of Flesh STILL HAS SIN....
Sin That is Forgiven.
Sin That is Covered.
Sin That is NO LONGER SEEN or REMEMBERED...By My Lord God!

John 12
[46] I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

Heb 10
[17] And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

To deny this is to LIE, which is a sin.

FALSE.

I DENY your ACCUSATIONS.
I DENY your UNDERSTANDING.
I DENY BELIEVING IN YOU.
I DENY BELIEVING IN YOUR WORD.
I DENY YOU ARE a worthy Teacher.

I TESTIFY I BELIEVE IN, THEE Lord God Almighty, FOLLOW HIM, and Have ACCEPTED HIS OFFERINGS, BLESSINGS, WORD, TRUTH, FORGIVENESS, CLEANSING, JUSTIFICATION,
POWER, COVERING, HOLY SPIRIT, SEED, Baptism of His Holy Spirit, sonship, AND WAIT with patience for Him to Glorify MY Body of SINFUL FLESH.....
And BY HIS indwelling SPIRIT, I am FREE FROM / KEPT, FROM EVER AGAIN, COMMITTING AGAINST GOD!

Meantime, while I am patiently waiting...to be called UP TO the CLOUDS, IN MY Glorified BODY, BY MY Lord, and Meet MY Lord IN the Air...
I put up with people LIKE YOU; and your FALSE Accusations AGAINST me and FALSE Teaching AGAINST the WORD of God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

There is nothing in Scripture or history that God sends delusions.

NOT TRUE.

2 Thes 2:
[11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Yes God Does send Strong Delusion,
And the CAUSE for God sending men a Strong Delusion...IS BECAUSE:

[10] .... because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

We are all sinners,

Noone has denied that.
Nor is that the POINT.

All ARE naturally BORN IN SIN...AGAINST God.

SOME hear, learn, believe, trust, and CONFESS their heartfelt BELIEF IN God...
TO THEM, the Lord Gives Forgiveness for NOT having Believed IN God.
TO THEM, the Lord Gives PARTICULAR GIFTS, and BLeSSING.
TO THEM, the Lord STAYS "WITH" THEM, and "KEEPS" THEM...Faithful to thee Lord God.
TO THEM, the Lord Gives a NEW HEART, to Forever BELIEVE Him.

TO THEM, that REJECT thee Lord God,
The Lord gives a HARDENED Heart, that they may not BELIEVE IN Him.

The Lord is JUST, giving to all that which they Desire.

Being "born again" does not remove ones humanity.

Noone says being born again "removes" a mans humanity.

However Scriture says, being born again GAINS a Forever Standing IN and WITH the Lord, and a PROMISE of Changing the corruption OF the Human Flesh, INTO a Glorified Body of Flesh, WITHOUT Corruption.

You have a very private theology that contradicts 99.999% of Christiandom.

And what about YOU? Clearly you have DENIED with your own words, what Scripture says.

And BTW, attaching a high imaginary percentage to bolster your claim, doesn't make your claims any more worthy.

There is nothing in Scripture or history that God sends delusions.

2 Thes 2:
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion...

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[ScottA]

There is nothing in Scripture or history that God sends delusions. We are all sinners, as taught by Scripture, Orthodox, Catholics and most Protestants for 2000 years. Being "born again" does not remove ones humanity.
You have a very private theology that contradicts 99.999% of Christiandom.

No...I just quoted the scripture you say does not exist. Biblically, that is called blindness.

And now because of this you do the same as BOL, mixing sinners and non-sinners. But you are wrong: A sinner, once he has died, is free from sin and sins no more. Therefore, Christ has said, "You must be born again."

 

[BreadOfLife]

Hahaha. Hijacking this thread? YOU , IN THIS THREAD, WERE THE ONE WHO CLAIMED YOUR CHURCH HAD SCRIPTURAL BACKING FOR ALL YOUR DOCTRINES!!!! Now that I challenge that assertion you scramble for cover??? Of course you do, because, you are proved wrong... Not by me, but by your own church.

I’m not “scrambling for cover” or for anything else.

If you want proof of my claim – simply open up the Catechism of the Catholic Church and you will find Scriptural support for virtually every doctrine.

Why is it that you all expect me to do YOUR homework for you??

 

[BreadOfLife]

Correct. The Lord has FORGIVEN ALL of my Sins.

Incorrect. At no time have I minimized what the Lord has done FOR ME, or BLESSED me WITH.

My God is Greater than YOUR ACCUSATIONS AGAINST His POWER and BLESSINGS TO ME, and ACCUSATIONS toward me that it is a LIE for me to BELIEVE what He has done for me.

Rom 4:7
Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

FALSE. Scripture does NOT teach an "OR" circumstance as YOU TEACH.

Again, you attempting to rewrite Scripture, which has ZERO effect on me.

NOT Once was I instructed to BELIEVE IN YOU, FOLLOW YOU, or TRUST YOUR WORDS....NOR DO I.

Correct.

Once I Received HIS HOLY Spirit and HIS SEED....I was Converted and MADE...BY the POWER, AUTHORITY, and WORD of God..."born of God"...ONCE and FOREVER.

By the Indwelling POWER of God within me...
"THAT KEEPS me IN FAITHFULNESS TO HIM..."
NEVER AGAIN...... NO MORE
Can I EVER Stand AGAINST God, Not Believe IN God, COMMIT SIN AGAINST GOD!

Explain to me – with Scripture - HOW your flesh still has sin in it when you have been forgiven of ALL of your sins and you are no longer capable of sinning.

Romans 7 and 1 John 1 CLEARLY show that although we were are forgiven of past sins – we STILL sin because we are IN the flesh. We are not OF the flesh.

YOUR problem is that you don’t know the difference . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Because God has "send strong delusion" among the church, but we are "children of Light", and "joy comes in the morning."

WRONG.

Jesus guaranteed that the Holy Spirit would guide His Church to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).

The God of Christianity is not the author of confusion like the pathetic god YOU'VE invented for yourself . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Your problem is you don't know better than to mix up "today and tomorrow, and the third day."

But, no, "perfect" is not arrogance...it's Christ.

Go figure, you think that all perverts your little religion.

If you’re not reading Scripture in context – you may as well be reading comic books.

The fact remains that BOTH Paul and John included themselves in their descriptions of those who stumble in sin. All of your arrogant posturing can’t change this fact.

Cherry-picking Scripture out of context ain’t the answer, son . . .

 

[ScottA]

WRONG.

Jesus guaranteed that the Holy Spirit would guide His Church to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).

The God of Christianity is not the author of confusion like the pathetic god YOU'VE invented for yourself . . .

You speak against all that is written. Your quoting scripture against scripture only proves your lack of knowledge.

Both the scriptures that you have quoted, as well as those I have quoted are true, and must be reconciled, or "all truth" is not in you. Your half-truth attempts are proof of it.

But for those who would know the whole truth, "strong delusion" is not "confusion", it is His "strength made perfect in weakness."

 

[ScottA]

If you’re not reading Scripture in context – you may as well be reading comic books.

The fact remains that BOTH Paul and John included themselves in their descriptions of those who stumble in sin. All of your arrogant posturing can’t change this fact.

Cherry-picking Scripture out of context ain’t the answer, son . . .

It is you who is out of context and mixing the words written to those who sin with those who do not sin.

But the truth is not me speaking...as it is written. You call the Holy Spirit "arrogant." Wouldn't want to be you.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... why do YOU and @ScottA espouse this heresy??

I think WE ALL know that answer, but it wouldn't be WELL RECEIVED!

Now, it would seem that this poor horse should stay buried in the ground, and not dug up and beat some more, -- but that's just my opinion ...


Bobby Jo

 

[Helen]

Explain to me – with Scripture - HOW your flesh still has sin in it when you have been forgiven of ALL of your sins and you are no longer capable of sinning.

Romans 7 and 1 John 1 CLEARLY show that although we were are forgiven of past sins – we STILL sin because we are IN the flesh. We are not OF the flesh.

YOUR problem is that you don’t know the difference . . .

I'm not really "in" this thread, but I read it once in a while.

But I just wanted to say...I do not continually confess sin.
bbyrd009 say a lot about the need for confession...etc etc..and being a Catholic I am sure you do too.

I do not.
Now it does say in James -
8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

To be very honest here, @Taken @Bobby Jo ...I do not even 'think' of sin daily.
I believe too much focus is put upon sin.
It takes our eyes from Christ....and - "Christ in me , The Hope of glory."

Paul says - "Reckon yourselves dead indeed to sin, and alive to God."

James says - "If we walk in the Light, ( if we don't ,why not!!?) as He is in the Light , we have fellowship one with another and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. "

We are cleaned as we walk!!

If we stay where we should be,,,which is , in the Light ( In Christ) ...we ARE cleans as we walk...there is no need for constant confessing of sin.

If we are always feeling the need to confess sin...what does it tell us?
That we are NOT walking on the straight path...or in The Light!

The odd times that I cannot feel the presence of God with me...then I have to ask myself..." Okay, who moved ..." and I know it wasn't Him...so I must have grieved His Spirit...then and only then do I get before God for a check-up.

When we walk in the Light, we know immediately when the light is blocked by some shadow...

Blessing....H
.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You speak against all that is written. Your quoting scripture against scripture only proves your lack of knowledge.

Both the scriptures that you have quoted, as well as those I have quoted are true, and must be reconciled, or "all truth" is not in you. Your half-truth attempts are proof of it.

But for those who would know the whole truth, "strong delusion" is not "confusion", it is His "strength made perfect in weakness."

And this is a perfect example of your rebellious confusion.

You think that I am pitting verses against each other which is preposterous. I am showing you that YOU are cherry-picking instead of reading ALL of Scripture in context.
Paul and John aren’t saying anything different – just coming from different angles. The same is true for Paul’s message and Christ’s message.

NONE of the NT writers are teaching anything differently from each other – they are simply teaching it differently, and the message is CLEAR:

Christians strive not to sin but we stumble because of our fallen nature.
The difference between Christians and non-believers who sin is that WE have a recourse – a refuge in Christ.

YOU seem to have forgotten that . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I'm not really "in" this thread, but I read it once in a while.

But I do not continually confess sin.
bbyrd009 say a lot about the need for confession...etc etc..

I do not.
Now it does say in James -
8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

I to be very honest here, @Taken @Bobby Jo ...I do not 'think' of sin.
I believe too much focus is upon sin. It takes our eyes from Christ....and "Christ in me , The Hope of glory."

Paul says - "Reckon yourselves dead indeed to sin, and alive to Christ."

James says - "If we walk in the Light, ( if we don't ,why not!!?) as He is in the Light we have fellowship one with another and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. "

If we stay where we should be,,,in the Light ( In Christ) ...we ARE cleans as we walk...there is no need for constant confessing of sin.
If we are always feeling the need to confess sin...what does it tell us?
That we are NOT walking on the straight path...in The Light!

Blessing....H
.

Because, Helen – although we strive to ALWAYS walk in the light – we sometimes stumble. And when we fail God – we must repent and ask Him for forgiveness for falling short. We don’t always walk in the light because we are flawed human beings who are BEING perfected.

We ain’t perfect YET . . .

 

[Helen]

Because, Helen – although we strive to ALWAYS walk in the light – we sometimes stumble. And when we fail God – we must repent and ask Him for forgiveness for falling short. We don’t always walk in the light because we are flawed human beings who are BEING perfected.

We ain’t perfect YET . . .

I was editing my post when you posted...I added a bit.

I agree with your post...yet I have to say again... IF we are always needing to confess...then there is something wrong...we need to ask ourselves WHY we stepped out of the Light... a mature Follower will not always be tripping and falling...

Darn, this post posted itself before I was finished... again...

 

[marks]

Explain to me – with Scripture - HOW your flesh still has sin in it when you have been forgiven of ALL of your sins and you are no longer capable of sinning.

2 Corinthians 5
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Romans 7
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing:

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

We've been recreated, new creatures, everything new, nothing of the old.

The flesh remains hopelessly corrupt.

But we are no longer our flesh, we are God's spirit children, indwelling these vile bodies.

Sanctification is the process of growing in control over these bodies so that they do the will of God, not serve their own lusts. But we are not our bodies.

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

And this is a perfect example of your rebellious confusion.

You think that I am pitting verses against each other which is preposterous. I am showing you that YOU are cherry-picking instead of reading ALL of Scripture in context.
Paul and John aren’t saying anything different – just coming from different angles. The same is true for Paul’s message and Christ’s message.

NONE of the NT writers are teaching anything differently from each other – they are simply teaching it differently, and the message is CLEAR:

Christians strive not to sin but we stumble because of our fallen nature.
The difference between Christians and non-believers who sin is that WE have a recourse – a refuge in Christ.

YOU seem to have forgotten that . . .

If any of that were true (and it is not) you would not have countered with your own scripture against scripture, you would have reconciled them. But you did not, nor can you, because you have already contradicted the other scriptures.

And you continue to disregard the rest of the scriptures that say that "no more" are we under a "fallen nature." Which, your saying so, is against Christ.